• Five@slrpnk.netOP
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    1 year ago

    People keep bringing up the parking lot incident as if admitting that there isn’t definitive proof it wasn’t Israel is the same thing as proof that is was Hamas, and errors in reporting mean nothing reported is credible. Building your propaganda model on split hairs is back-firing badly for you. Humanistic Judaism can not be constrained by the straight-jacket of colonial Zionism.

    The Undisputed Facts in Gaza Are Enough by Eric Levitz

    The case for a ceasefire in Gaza does not rest on Israel’s culpability for any single air strike. The undisputed facts are more than enough to indicate that Israel’s campaign against Hamas has featured a callous disregard for civilian suffering. We don’t need to rely on Hamas to know that Israel has cut off food, fuel, electricity, and water to much of Gaza’s population. Israel’s own government has told us that. Similarly, data from the Gaza Health Ministry is not our only indication that there have been massive civilian casualties in Gaza. The U.N. tells us that Gaza is running out of body bags, while photos published by the IDF portray the large-scale decimation of civilian infrastructure.

    • alvvayson@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Indeed.

      And even beyond respecting human rights and international law, I would also like to add the following.

      Israel and Biden are showing a total lack of consideration for the hostages or for foreign nationals stuck in Gaza.

      In fact, they are giving priority to opportunistic and illegal land grabs in the West Bank above all else.

      The West should put way more pressure on Israel to stop the war crimes they are committing right now, and to put more effort in securing the release and safety of our own citizens.

      • Annoyed_🦀 @monyet.cc
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        1 year ago

        Fact is, Hamas slaughering 1400 people wouldn’t have happened if Israel hadn’t oppress the Palestine people for more than 50 years. That is what UN chief is saying, because they’ve been calling out Israel bs for a long time. Israel have the power themselves to stop the cycle of hate, but they didn’t, instead they intensified it.

        • photonic_sorcerer@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          1 year ago

          No, I agree. I just mean that Hamas wanted to sow chaos and destruction by doing what they did, and well, that’s what they got. It’s still unclear who fired that rocket, whether it was a misfire or whatever, but if Hamas hadn’t attacked, there would be no israeli ground offensive, half of Gaza wouldn’t have been ordered to evactuate, and a lot of innocents would still be alive today.

          • HelixDab2@lemm.ee
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            1 year ago

            …And Hamas wouldn’t have wanted to sow chaos and destruction if Israel had been negotiating in good faith since 1967. But they haven’t. So here we are.

            Hamas is an entity of Israel’s creation, and was funded by Israel to remove support from other, less militant Palestinian organizations.

            • P1r4nha@feddit.de
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              1 year ago

              Zionists argue all the way back to several hundreds years B.C. Not that you can always draw an exactly straight line here, but the point should be that no reaction is inevitable, but that we have organized governments here making these decisions every day.

              • HelixDab2@lemm.ee
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                1 year ago

                Well, shit, then argue back before that. What of the Babylonians and the Assyrians that the Israelites genocided? What of their ancestors? Shouldn’t they have their land returned to them?

                • BluesF@feddit.uk
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                  1 year ago

                  If you go far enough back we’re probably all entitled to the land. Let’s just do away with these “borders” and make the whole world into a theme park instead.

                  • HelixDab2@lemm.ee
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                    1 year ago

                    I’m in favor of annihilation of humans as a species and returning the land to the rightful owners: the plants and (non-human) animals. Surely they can’t fuck it up as much as we have.

            • photonic_sorcerer@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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              1 year ago

              Every time there’s been a viable two-state solution presented, Hamas or whoever was the palestinian authroity at the time rejected the proposal because they want all of Israel. That isn’t happening. Israel has agreed to a two state solution multiple times! The representatives of palestine never have. If they had, this situation would’ve stabilized decades ago.

              • NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social
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                1 year ago

                Israel has agreed to a two state solution multiple times!

                Certainly not in 1995, or in 2014. They’ve also went back on their own ceasefires with Hamas in 2008 and 2012.

      • Five@slrpnk.netOP
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        1 year ago

        Are you making a justification for a hospital bombing?

              • Limitless_screaming@kbin.social
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                1 year ago

                While the hospital disaster wouldn’t have happened if not for the attack, the attack also wouldn’t have happened if not for the blockades, terrorization of Palestinians, demolition of houses, and non stop settler violence everywhere even in the West Bank.

                • photonic_sorcerer@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                  1 year ago

                  Also true. But an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind. There needs to be peace. And there can be no peace with Hamas, whose mission it is to completely destroy Israel.

                  • snooggums@kbin.social
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                    1 year ago

                    Why do they have that mission? Is it possibly die to decades of Isreal trying to completely destroy Palestine?

                  • Limitless_screaming@kbin.social
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                    1 year ago

                    Yes, but after they take two men and a kidney, you gotta at least take an eye.

                    If you think that there’s no peace with Hamas, but there’s peace with Isn’trael, then you may be delusional. Just ask the West bank.

                • probablyaCat@kbin.social
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                  1 year ago

                  And the blockades wouldn’t have happened if the Palestinian people didn’t put Hamas in power after, in attempts at peace and a two state solution, Israel demilitarized Gaza. And the wall wouldn’t have happened without the suicide bus bombings. I mean we can carry this back. At a minimum we can’t stop until WWI. And that’s really just a minimum. The crusades would be another point to carry it back to but that seems real far.