• Cethin@lemmy.zip
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    10 months ago

    Your comment sounds like it’s justifying killing 2 civilians for everyone 1 soldier. Even assuming your number is correct, it doesn’t really matter. It’s just as bad.

    • mellowheat@suppo.fi
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      10 months ago

      Hamas is partly to blame for the following reasons:

      1. They use human shield tactics

      2. They haven’t built bomb shelters (edit: for civilians)

      3. They have no civilian evacuation plans

      4. They appear to actively stop people from evacuating

      Also, the population density in Gaza is one of the highest ones in the world. Which is really nobody’s fault I guess, but makes the number of civilian deaths worse, especially given the above 4 points.

        • mellowheat@suppo.fi
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          10 months ago

          I should’ve written: “They haven’t built bomb shelters for civilians”

          Is it shocking to learn this? It seems so absurd that you cannot believe it?

          I kinda agree.

          • NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social
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            10 months ago

            How do you expect Hamas to build bomb shelters? Setting aside how Israel has bunker busters and has been using them in Gaza, because of Israel’s blockade things that you’d normally need to make a bomb shelter (or any decent structure) are unavailable. It’s to the point UNRWA is teaching Gazans how to build houses using mud.

            • mellowheat@suppo.fi
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              10 months ago

              How do you expect Hamas to build bomb shelters?

              In the exact same way as they build bomb shelters for their soldiers? Probably not optimal for civilians, but better than nothing.

              • NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social
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                10 months ago

                But can those shelters house the ridiculous amount of civilians in Gaza? I don’t see how they could build these things at a large enough scale to house Gazan civilians, not to mention they’d be bombed first thing because they’re “Hamas headquarters”. At least Israel can’t use bunker busters on hospitals and UN schools (hopefully).

    • Fitik@fedia.io
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      10 months ago

      Why it doesn’t matter?

      As a point of reference, according to the UN, civilians usually make up around 90 percent of casualties in war. That’s a 1:9 ratio (one combatant for every nine civilians).

      https://press.un.org/en/2022/sc14904.doc.htm

      It shows that it’s low, and Israel does care about civilians, a shame that civilians die in the first place, but that what war is, especially considering HAMAS fighters a lot of times wear civilian clothing and don’t follow the laws of war

      • iain@feddit.nl
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        10 months ago

        especially considering HAMAS fighters a lot of times wear civilian clothing and don’t follow the laws of war

        Sure, Hamas should paint giant targets on their backs and face the Israelis in an open field, mano-a-mano.

        As long as Israel doesn’t recognize Palestine as an independent state, I don’t see why Palestinian freedom fighters, Hamas or otherwise, should behave like they’re the official army of an independent state.

      • livus@kbin.social
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        10 months ago

        @Fitik yikes, classic case of not reading your own link:

        Conflict continued to cause widespread civilian death last year, notably in densely populated areas, where civilians accounted for 90 per cent of the casualties when explosive weapons were used, compared to 10 per cent in other areas.

        • The whole thing is a UN discussion where they talk about the need for greater Humanitarian access in war zones.

        • The part you are quoting is about how using explosives in densely populated areas causes 90% which is way higher than normal. Normal being 10%.

        In other words, the people in your link are condemning exactly the kind of things Israel is doing now in Gaza i.e incendiaries in densely populated areas and hindering humanitarian access.