Just to be clear, this was an elderly Palestinian man cowering under a bed who came out with his hands up and was murdered by an Israeli soldier who brags about it after.

    • Cethin@lemmy.zip
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      15
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      9 months ago

      This is my favorite Black Mirror episode because, unlike most of the episodes, it has literally been done before except we don’t need the technology they used. People are cruel and stupid enough to just listen when you say other people are monsters without requiring much else.

      • rockSlayer@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        7
        arrow-down
        9
        ·
        edit-2
        9 months ago

        it actually requires years of extremism within a government for people to support things like this.

        • deranger@sh.itjust.works
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          9 months ago

          I really don’t think it does, check out the Robbers Cave experiment. Group dynamics is fascinating.

          • RickRussell_CA@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            16
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            edit-2
            9 months ago

            Robbers Cave has been debunked. Short version:

            Muzafer Sherif’s first experiment (“Middle Grove”) failed when the two groups worked together to figure out that they were being manipulated. The second experiment (“Robbers Cave”) was only apparently successful because the “camp counselors” were explicitly aiding and abetting the feud between the two groups.

            Of course, Sherif didn’t mention these details when he publicized his results.

            • deranger@sh.itjust.works
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              7
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              edit-2
              9 months ago

              I don’t see where it’s debunked in that article, but I’d absolutely like to check out any other sources you have. I only found a Vox article that said he failed to disclose the first experiment and linked to that same page you did. To me, it seems more “scientifically unsound” due to ethical issues rather than “debunked”.

              “I wouldn’t describe him as a charlatan … every journal article, every textbook is written to convince, persuade and to provide evidence for a point of view. So I don’t think Sherif is unusual in that way.”

              Even that author thinks he’s just like every researcher. I dunno. I’m not seeing the debunked angle. Ethical issues, sure.

              Regardless, I still think it’s quite relevant even if they were manipulating the boys somehow; do you not feel we’re potentially being manipulated by other parties to feud with one another?

              • RickRussell_CA@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                9 months ago

                Fundamentally, it’s the same issue that affected the Stanford Prison Experiment & the Milgram experiment. You can’t claim that the subjects naturally developed certain behaviors, if they were being prompted or saw through the prompts.

                Since Sherif proved himself to be untrustworthy after the first experiment failed to provide the results he was looking for, we can’t really trust that any of the conditions of the conflict between the campers arose from the campers themselves.

        • Jessica@lemmy.blahaj.zone
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          16
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          9 months ago

          Yeah this sort of radicalization takes decades of hatred for the “other”. I’m talking about Israel, to be clear.

    • Wrench@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      63
      arrow-down
      4
      ·
      edit-2
      9 months ago

      I remember around 10 years ago, there were some videos of what the youth were taught in school, and interviews with young adults about their opinion of Palestinians.

      To sum it up, they were taught they were filth, sub human, in ~grade school ages. Young adults “sympathized” that they had tough lives, but they should go elsewhere, anywhere else, and that if they didn’t, they should die.

      It was in the context of that anti missile defense, and living in Isreal with frequent missile/terror attacks, and how Palestinians were segregated, had long lines to enter the city, couldn’t use the same roads, kids throwing rocks at cars, etc.

      So yeah, this genocide is hardly surprising. They’ve been dehumanizing the Palestinians for generations, straight up indoctrinating their children. So the IDF murdering them like some rabid dogs was exactly the goal.

    • Wogi@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      133
      arrow-down
      4
      ·
      9 months ago

      This is literally one of the steps to building a fascist state. Israel is speed running to a fascist theocracy.

        • NounsAndWords@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          23
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          9 months ago

          Every time they start talking about it something like this happens and everyone there “rallys around the flag”

      • ghostdoggtv@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        53
        arrow-down
        7
        ·
        9 months ago

        Israel has never not been a fascist state. Religion is humanity’s oldest lash. Each of the abrahamic religions after Judaism is a heretical revolutionary cult against the political structures that each prior religion corrupted itself into.

        • FuglyDuck@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          54
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          edit-2
          9 months ago

          A NYT letter to the editor signed by many prominent Jews, including Einstein, more or less blatantly called Tnaut Haherut Nazis.

          Haherut is now Likud, and that letter was written in 1948.

        • isles@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          6
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          9 months ago

          Each of the abrahamic religions after Judaism

          I’m no scholar, but aren’t there only two and their various sects? Would have been shorter to just name them, unless it was to tie them to their Abrahamic roots and then I’m curious why you don’t include Judaism.

          • ghostdoggtv@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            6
            arrow-down
            2
            ·
            9 months ago

            I’m no scholar

            I wasn’t going for short, I was trying to communicate a specific idea. To answer your questions read the rest of what I said.

          • Rinox@feddit.it
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            5
            ·
            9 months ago

            You could argue it’s all the same religion, different sects but the same exact God, just different names for it.

            Or wasn’t the exact same God who talked to Abraham in all of these religions?

            • prole@sh.itjust.works
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              9 months ago

              One could also argue that the god described in the New Testament is not the same as the (petty, jealous, hateful, genocidal) one in the OT.

              • Rinox@feddit.it
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                9 months ago

                That’s YOUR point of view. None of the major Christian sects think that afaik.

                You can make a religion out of that!

    • Maggoty@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      15
      ·
      9 months ago

      The UN has also compared the rate of killing to Rwanda. Specifically worse than in any conflict since Rwanda.