I’m sorry, but if a “debate” like this is all it takes to turn someone into a redpilled incel, they were going to become one anyway and we have much bigger problems.
The fact is that women get attacked just existing in an online space and a scary amount of men feel threatened any time a woman speaks up for herself. Because that’s patriarchy. When the power structure is threatened in any way, No matter what example a woman gives, no matter how hard she attempts to not be divisive, there are still a bunch of men who feel threatened by her suggesting that any man may possibly pose a threat to a woman because they take it personally.
And they will feel ‘othered’ because the patriarchy has raised them to believe they are the superior humans because of their gender and any suggestion that some men may do the wrong thing where women are concerned is an explicit threat to them personally. And the whole point of this is that a woman doesn’t know whether the strange man she encounters in the woods will do the wrong thing. There’s just no way to know whether or not a man will assault her. People can claim that’s true about strange women as well, but, again, that’s missing the whole fucking point. Again, though, the point will be missed no matter how diplomatically it is put because it challenges the patriarchy.
Okay, this comment was the best so far and actually seemed to care to make a point/converse, so I’ll make just one final reply.
Your first sentence might be true for older men, or men who are already “allies” to put it simply, but it’s simply not true for younger men, and again it’s also just unhelpful and pushes people away. Overall, it makes you sound like you care more about being angry and being right, than actually helping to make society better. Not that I don’t understand that feeling by the way, I’m just saying it’s unhelpful and not constructive.
And yeah, off course there will always be some men who will feel threatened anyway when people raise the issue, but the question is how many feel threatened and “othered” in one situation versus in the other situation. I mean, I’d hate to fall from a ladder, but I’d rather fall from a short ladder than a tall one; does that make sense? I’d rather you go with the option that will push less young men into the arms of people like Andrew Tate, rather than the one that will push the most just because you’re angry and want to make your point in the most brutish way possible.
And they will feel ‘othered’ because the patriarchy has raised them to believe they are the superior humans because of their gender and any suggestion that some men may do the wrong thing where women are concerned is an explicit threat to them personally.
They feel “othered” because the meme is inherently sexist, and if they complain they get called sexist. Again, imagine if instead of “men” this is talking about a marginalized group and the problem becomes explicit. Just because men are not a marginalized group in society, does not mean that the same feelings are not evoked in them when confronted with such rhetoric.
You make a lot of good points, but where I am stuck on is the idea of blaming these videos (especially the initial ones, not all the reactions) for people falling off that ladder and becoming an incel. That takes years of grooming and if they were at that point, something was going to push them over sooner or later.
Also, maybe it is sexist for all of those women to find strange men more threatening, but it doesn’t change the fact that a large number of women do feel that way and maybe it should be explored why instead of criticizing them for it.
I’m sorry, but if a “debate” like this is all it takes to turn someone into a redpilled incel, they were going to become one anyway and we have much bigger problems.
The fact is that women get attacked just existing in an online space and a scary amount of men feel threatened any time a woman speaks up for herself. Because that’s patriarchy. When the power structure is threatened in any way, No matter what example a woman gives, no matter how hard she attempts to not be divisive, there are still a bunch of men who feel threatened by her suggesting that any man may possibly pose a threat to a woman because they take it personally.
And they will feel ‘othered’ because the patriarchy has raised them to believe they are the superior humans because of their gender and any suggestion that some men may do the wrong thing where women are concerned is an explicit threat to them personally. And the whole point of this is that a woman doesn’t know whether the strange man she encounters in the woods will do the wrong thing. There’s just no way to know whether or not a man will assault her. People can claim that’s true about strange women as well, but, again, that’s missing the whole fucking point. Again, though, the point will be missed no matter how diplomatically it is put because it challenges the patriarchy.
Okay, this comment was the best so far and actually seemed to care to make a point/converse, so I’ll make just one final reply.
Your first sentence might be true for older men, or men who are already “allies” to put it simply, but it’s simply not true for younger men, and again it’s also just unhelpful and pushes people away. Overall, it makes you sound like you care more about being angry and being right, than actually helping to make society better. Not that I don’t understand that feeling by the way, I’m just saying it’s unhelpful and not constructive.
And yeah, off course there will always be some men who will feel threatened anyway when people raise the issue, but the question is how many feel threatened and “othered” in one situation versus in the other situation. I mean, I’d hate to fall from a ladder, but I’d rather fall from a short ladder than a tall one; does that make sense? I’d rather you go with the option that will push less young men into the arms of people like Andrew Tate, rather than the one that will push the most just because you’re angry and want to make your point in the most brutish way possible.
They feel “othered” because the meme is inherently sexist, and if they complain they get called sexist. Again, imagine if instead of “men” this is talking about a marginalized group and the problem becomes explicit. Just because men are not a marginalized group in society, does not mean that the same feelings are not evoked in them when confronted with such rhetoric.
You make a lot of good points, but where I am stuck on is the idea of blaming these videos (especially the initial ones, not all the reactions) for people falling off that ladder and becoming an incel. That takes years of grooming and if they were at that point, something was going to push them over sooner or later.
Also, maybe it is sexist for all of those women to find strange men more threatening, but it doesn’t change the fact that a large number of women do feel that way and maybe it should be explored why instead of criticizing them for it.