I’m so tired
Fascists gonna fascist…
Average self-proclaimed libertarian
What a surprise, put a foolish overconfident man with dictatorial ambitions in charge of the state and now he wants to expand the state’s power.
This article is straight up missinformation. The person who did that quote, ON TWITTER is not affiliated to the Political Party of the Government, they are in fact Opposition
The Guardian showing being a shit source
Edit: Also want to note, multiple claims on the Article not related to the headline are also fake, the Peso was not devalued by Javier Milei, it was already that bad before he became President, what he did was make the Government stop lying about it
Bootlickers are the worst.
What’s the wrong information in the article? Leftist legislator and former presidential candidate Myriam Bregman said on X (formerly Twitter): “What Bullrich announced is absolutely unconstitutional … The right to protest is the first of all rights.”? José Luis Espert, a legislator with Milei’s party, Liberty Advances, replied with a three-word phrase: “Prison or bullet.”? The article I read states reducing the peso by 50% to be apart of the newly elected presidents administration to address the economy. His economy minister, Luis Caputo, moved to weaken the official exchange rate to 800 pesos a dollar – it had been 366.5 – in a televised address after the local markets closed on Tuesday. He said the central bank would target a monthly devaluation of 2%.“The objective is simply to avoid catastrophe and get the economy back on track,” Caputo said, in a recorded speech. “There is no more money.” The president of Argentina posted , “Today inflation is travelling at a daily rate of 1%, that means it is travelling at a yearly rate of 3,678%,” Milei said on his Instagram feed on Friday.
What the other user said about José Luis Espert is true, he left the party half a year ago. Milei said “he chooses to stand with political caste”.
That is quite remarkable, as theguardian made a misleading clickbait headline that anyone can verify even with wikipedia.
Jose Luis Espert is not in Milei’s Party, as mentioned he is opposition, the claim of “Prison or Bullet” shall not be attributed to his Government. And the “Devaluation” of the PESO is rather complex to explain but basically the only effect is big companies changing their prices accordingly.
Local Prices were already based on the ACTUAL DOLLAR PRICE of the Alternative Market (Not the official) known as “Dolar Blue” the previous official amount was a lie from the previous government that allowed them to steal from Argentina’s workers if they moved their dollars into the country (legally that is) and of course no Argentine had access to dollars at that price as the previous government NEVER allowed normal folk to buy it, only politicians, and in case you were wondering YES it was THAT BROAD DAYLIGHT ROBBERY
The rest of the claims are true but given how the most alarming claims were lies I advice you to please enforce critical thinking and decide wether the source is biased or not
You’re really fighting the good fight here
It’s impressive there’s even a fight to be had here, I expected Lemmy to be way more critical than Reddit but people seem to boast being lied to, meanwhile in Reddit this article has already been taken down for missinformation, thanks to the dozens of Argies providing proof of it being the case, saying the same things I am
No. They are not. Espert is currently aligned with JxC (Juntos por el Cambio). And surprise to none, they are running the country basically along with LLA (La Libertad Avanza). And even if that weren’t the case, Espert literally threatened leftist parliamentaries. The fucker is even one of the signataries of The Madrid Charter, for God’s sake.
The Peso was devalued with Milei, and also before. And will keep being devaluated because this govt does not care about the people. They care about the profit as the govt of Fernandez and Macri did.
The right wing is never the answer. Sadly, those who’ll pay the price for being so ignorant about it will be the citizens.
Abd replying to something you said, maybe you have no knowledge about fascism, but Milei is clearly a fascist.
You just gave me the right on everything about Espert… Including that he’s just a legislator and LLA having an Alliance with JxC to be allowed to govern… So thanks I guess
However, no the Peso was not devaluated, the Official exchange just moved towards the real exchange since for some reason they dont want to steal more from the Workers and Tourists that fall for the trap of the Official Exchange… HMMMM
And yeah let’s just be absolutists and say the right is never the answer, that’s obviously flawless and correct and doesnt make you look any biased at all…
And would like to know the quote you are apparently replying to? Because so far Milei has advocated to follow the constitution, has complied with his campaign promises so far and has been democratically elected unlike his opponent in the Elections who has De-Facto President on his Minister of Economy facade, Surely those arent fascists, correct?
Milei is not making “the caste” pay. Milei is making workers pay. And Massa was not the president. He was the Superminister of Economy. And in Argentina, that is a big deal. But I’m not aware of him defying the Constitution in his tenure. Now, forgive me for believing the right, who aims to mantain it’s privileges every time they feel they are slightly threatened, can’t be trusted.
Except that… he’s already making the Caste pay?.. 2 out of his 3 Decrees so far have already cut A LOT of Political Priviledges and Money making schemes planted by the Peronists, and more are to come out of his words. Sure the workers are paying too i’ll give you that.
And yes, Massa was the President, of course not in an official way because that would be unconstitutional and Political Suicide, on the Most Peronist fashion it was all done under the rug. As soon as Massa assumed his charge the President Alberto Fernandez LITERALLY dissapeared from Public View AND Executively did NOTHING the rest of his mandate. Massa took his place both in Public Acts and on actually ordering the Country. There’s no way to make this shit up given how blatant it was
I don’t think you’re getting my point. The caste is composed of corrupt politicians, corporatioms that lobby the state, unnecesary assistants, etc. Congresspersons are not seeing their salarys reduced, nor are they having a more strict set of rules when it comes to assisting to sessions. Corporations are not paying anything. They are not being affected. Aristocracie has the same tax regime, there is no tax on bigger fortunes that enables some load of the measures to be lifted from the workers, and they’re getting the chance to buy state companys that are direct competition. There is also the elimination of price regulations and observation policy, so literally they can and will charge as much as they want (and yes, you could say that if you can’t afford it, don’t pay for it, but what about the food!?) On democracy and freedoms, freedoms are being reduced (Bulrich’s anti-picket protocol failed tremendously given that the streets were indeed cut off, althought not cut off by the manifestants). Right wing extremist are threatening leftist politicians, as you have seen with Espert. United Left Front parliamentary Natalia Morales was anonymously threatened with “not seeing sunlight ever again”.
Listen, I get the critics of peronism are valid. And I wholeheartedly agree that they have to be accountable of the wrongs they did and keep doing. What I do not and can not condone is the " on laws ground everything, out of them nothing" rethoric and then unconstitutionalism. If Peronism politicians do it is wrong. If leftist politicians do it is wrong. You can not fuck up the CN. If right wingers do it is also wrong. You can not say “well, peronist do it”. Because that is not the way it works when you said all the heavy things you said when in campaign.
And then we could go and analyze why most of what Milei said on campaign was wrong. We cpuld start iith his bashing of aocialism and communism when, he may not know what the hell those are, because he does not appear to know how they work or the definitions, or he knows but finds amusing to spew lies. We could go on and prove markets are not good at autoregulation, we could prove that economic growth does not equal life quality, climate change is obviously real and denying it should be penalized in my opinion because scientific consensus on the matter is hella strong, etc.
We can argue for hours about all of this things. And again, the caste should pay. But they’re not. Because those who made themselves rich on the workers labor, sweat and tears are not having any privileges being taken away. They are just getting more chances at exploiting.
Well, this is gonna be odd
Hello there, I actually kept your comment’s notification on my inbox this whole time, since you sounded reasonable and had an in depht-view of the events that ocurred at the time
Given the current state now, a whole year later of impact, if it’s not much trouble can I ask for opinions or thoughts if you have kept watch?
Hi! Ok. There is a lot to unpack. First of all, thank you for your kind wprds. And for being so interested in the topic.
A year of Milei can be sintetized with “he made impressive economic feats… which were paid for by the working class”.
It is true, inflation is down, prices are more stable, dollars are stable also. He did a lot. I would be praising him if not for the fact that the working class got to, again, pay the bills of the capitalists.
In his campaign, he promised that the " caste", a vague invented group composed of mostly politicians and businessmans, would pay the price of the exonomic shock and also would be on the receiving end of the harsher policoes, if you will. That, however, as many of us in the left knew, wasn’t gonna happen. And it did not. So, the economics part was real, but he lied on the basic premise of his campaign winning argument.
Then, we have the social dimension of his government. And here is worse: he rules by decree instead of by consensus, mischaracterises every politocian or entity that disagrees with him as corrupt, bad,lobbied, communist, socialist, leftist, etc. 1 in 3 protests are repressed by police ilegally (the methods are illegal, properly speaking). He made it easier for his followers to be more violent, regularly demosntrates disdain for LGBT folks, leftists, and so on.
He does not exhibit any apparent understanding of how democracies are supposed to work, with his party bribing congressmans for votes, even when the laws thay propose are unconstitutional. They are also using state mobile apps as propaganda for the government.
It’s 4am here, so sorry if I sound a little all over the place. This is my view. I’d advise to research more on this, via different nws source taht have different editorial lines, as to avoid getting only one point of view of the topics I talked about.
All in all, economic fixes are worth nothing, in my opinion, if the working class gets destroyed and the rich get more and more rich.
the Peso was not devalued by Javier Milei
it was already that bad before he became President, what he did was make the Government stop lying about it
That’s…what official currency devaluation is…(frequently but not always and definitely in this case).
When nobody uses the Official exchange rate for several reasons, you have to look at the exchange rate that people do use. On that matter, no the Peso was not devaluated, the official exchange just stopped being a lie, if you’d like to inform yourself about this please look at “Dolar Blue”
On that note, the only Prices that changed are international companies’ prices because they do go by it. Local Prices and other countries exchanges did not change it’s valuation even a cent.
So like, it was devalued.
Again, no
The previous valuation was a lie. It did not exist, nobody could get it but politicians and friends of said power. What doesnt exist cant loose value
The current however is real, and everyone can have at it. It does exist, and its been like that for a while.
You’re telling me things I already know.
Have a nice day o/
Strange to make false claims in the light of knowledge, bold to say the least
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Believe it or not, jail…
Yeah no, that’s Venezuela, where, believe it or not, maduro runs over protestors with tanks, emulating his Chinese overlords
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Human rights activists in Argentina have expressed consternation over new security guidelines to crack down on an anticipated wave of protests after the incoming government of libertarian president Javier Milei devalued the country’s currency by more than 50%.
The aim of the new rules is to prevent a traditional form of protest known as piquete, in which demonstrators blockade city roads and highways for hours, days – and sometimes even weeks at a time.
“Under the promise of order [the government] seeks to suppress public protest against the effects of official measures,” said the Centre of Legal Studies (CELS) in a statement.
“The measures attack the right to protest and criminalize those who demonstrate and persecute social and political organizations.”Leftist legislator and former presidential candidate Myriam Bregman said on X (formerly Twitter): “What Bullrich announced is absolutely unconstitutional … The right to protest is the first of all rights.” José Luis Espert, a legislator with Milei’s party, Liberty Advances, replied with a three-word phrase: “Prison or bullet.”The new protocol empowers police at train and bus stations to seize face masks, sticks or other elements they consider could be used in a demonstration.
In this way, it criminalizes mothers and fathers who demand better conditions for their families and excludes those in charge of their care,” said the CELS in its statement.Television newscaster Mario Massaccesi of the TN news channel recalled that Bullrich herself blockaded downtown streets in Buenos Aires when protesting against Covid lockdowns.
“What authority does she have now to tell others they can’t protest?” asked the newscaster.Protests are expected in response to the massive wage cuts and transport and tariff hikes announced as part of Milei’s “chainsaw” economic programme.
The original article contains 516 words, the summary contains 281 words. Saved 46%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
✅ Roaring 20s ✅ Pandemic ✅ Fascism on the rise around the world ✅ Multiple regional conflicts
Oh boy Ive seen this one before!
Only this time, the countries falling to fascism generally have nukes, so now there’s ultimately no way to stop them.
And people don’t want to listen and reject them en masse.
So evil is winning.
Yeah, people forget this anytime someone says “put them on trial for warcrimes!”
Like, if they were ever in a situation where they could be tried for warcrimes, boom goes the dynamite.
Honestly, I say bring it. I’m just waiting for the order to set Condition 1SQ. I’ll do it, too. Maybe after we do a hard reset, we can do it differently, or let another species take over.
Brave talk. You’ll be shitting your pants like the rest of us. But if it makes you feel better to pretend like this, then go right ahead.
Yes my biological instinct to survive will jump straight to the front of the line when it happens.
But it doesn’t change my mindset on this species needs to go. Just because that involves me changes nothing.
✅ Fresh new claims for Falklands Islands
The narrative converges
I don’t like where this is going…
Relax, we still haven’t seen a ton of assassinations yet
Russia has been assassinating several a year for years, the Israelis and Saudis both have been killing journalists, and India is currently in trouble with NA for assasinating a Canadian and plotting assassination of an American.
Assassinations are very much happening
It was 4 or 5 assassinations planned in the US by India. They successfully assassinated a Sikh separatist in Canada, and they had others planned as well.
We were supposed to have a other summer of love 🤷🏽
My first thought was that this was very un-Libertarian of Milei, and then I got my answer:
José Luis Espert, a legislator in Bullrich’s Together for Change alliance, which is in coalition with Milei’s Liberty Advances party, replied with a three-word phrase: “Prison or bullet.”
Milei did not even say these lines.
It seems to be mostly about cracking down on disruptive protests that block traffic, etc.
Some of this just isn’t that bad:
It also limits the participation of teenagers in social protests, ruling that parents of youngsters who should have been at school instead of protesting will be sanctioned.
Fair & good.
And here I thought libertarians hailed themselves as freedom absolutists.
they do. right now they’re upset because prison or bullet violates their freedom to choose how they punish other people for using freedom incorrectly. the moderates are outside waving gadsden flags and chanting “prison or bullet OR FIRE OR FLAYING OR DROWNING”. Because freedom.
So he’s basically just a liberal, right? Similar expansions of the police and increasing militarization happened under thatcher and reagan. He might call himself an “ancap”, but he’s probably just gonna be the same as them, in practice, since we live in a globalized economic system. No call from me on whether or not he’s going to be worse or not as bad, but he just seems like he’s basically the same as them ideologically.
Ahh yes, the notoriously liberal Thatcher and Reagan…
Yes? Thatcher and Reagan were liberal. Call it neoliberal if you like.
Are you American? Bear in mind that the rest of the world doesn’t use liberal in the American sense (where people just say liberal = left wing).
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“but he claimed to be Anarcho and anti-government”…
Turns out he was only opposed to good government!
Exactly. Argentina has had an issue with right wing, backwards ass idiots for a long time. They’re getting what they wanted
Is funny to claim people are “backwards idiots” when it’s literally the first time in history this political spectrum (anarcho-capitalist) has been elected. What’s fresher than a first time ever?
Lol, if you think this guy is anything other than your run of the mill fascist, I’ve got a bridge to sell you.
Ah yes, fascists. Not like those werent in power until 2 weeks ago and the opposing candidate to Milei wasnt using government power to investigate, accuse and imprison (if not kill) those who made campaign against him
Not that has anything to do with Milei, but when you consider that… and the fact that Milei has done nothing but comply to his campaign promises you gotta wonder whos the real fascist… or even the definition
There’s been a gazillion times people from that particular political spectrum, that is, neo-feudalists, have been in power.
No actual anarchist ever has ever considered ancaps to be anything else than that, ancaps plain and simply aren’t anarchist. You cannot be an anarchist while supporting systems of rule such as, to wit, capitalism.
“Ancaps arent Anarchists”
Yes… exactly. I see you understand why they are called different things
Ancaps are called Ancaps by Anarchists for that reason, yes, not because “anarcho-” wouldn’t otherwise be indicative of actual anarchism. Anarcho-syndicalism, anarcho-primitivism, the list is endless. Luckily we got spared Anarcho-withoutadjectivesism.
Either they’re trying to appropriate our good reputation, or they’re just clueless idiots. Or both. Very likely both.
Or… neither?
Words have meanings beyond the people that use them, if the meaning is appropiate for representing something, it shall be used.
Is not like “Phobia” is on many “Phobias” just for the sake of it.
No, words don’t have meaning to Ancaps or they would never have chosen the “anarcho-” prefix.
“The state is not going to pay for the use of the security forces; organizations that have legal status will have to pay or individuals will have to bear the cost”
The state sending invoices to accused protesters is a about the least ancap thing I’ve ever seen. Such a fresh take.
Considering that the security forces will only incur when protesters take away the fundamental right of transiting the streets… which is a crime, an Invoice instead of prison is rather light
Now is it anarcho capitalist? Well people paying for their actions and its consequences being a law sounds rather anarcho-capitalist to me
Man, you sure are making a good argument against anarcho-capitalism.
The principle of no-agression and respecting the other’s freedom are literally the principles or Anarcho-capitalism
This measures ensure that those are enforced, how is it against anarcho-capitalism?
I never signed no no-aggression treaty and as ancaps don’t consider social contracts valid I’d say I’m free to to whatever the fuck I want.
German police as well as courts of account have actually been lobbying to make football clubs pay for the operations they cause for quite some while. Would be tied to events with a commercial orientation attracting crowds > 5000 people or something along those lines.
Bro half the country doesn’t know how to read wtf are you talking about they aren’t backwards idiots?
Half the country doesn’t know how to read
Half the country voted for the Minister of Economy that ran the economy to the ground, used 2 Points of the Country’s GDP for his Political campaign and was also Defacto President the past 2 Years (not democratically elected) using the Ideology that has governed Argentina for 20 Years now
I think you just cracked the code who the “Backwards idiots” you so speak of might be
They can call themselves whatever they want this decade, they’re nothing new.
In that case would you mind explaining what they are that has already been there and has only gotten a glow up?
I bet historians and economists would love to be enlightened
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They are fascists. Those existed before.
It appears that we have different definitions of fascism
“A far right political ideology that is anti-democratic, ultra nationalist, and totalitarian”
Which… yeah doesnt fit at all to his so far 7 days of government
Are you really talking about the guy that denies Videla’s regime crimes? A guy that is a friend of far-right leaders around the world?
Names mean nothing, their actions are fascist
In that case, could you please number the “Actions” they’ve done that deem them fascist? It’s been 7 days of government, im sure you’ll have no issue narrowing them down in such a timeframe. I would like details if you are able to provide, thanks!
Okay sure,
Number 1: Threatening to jail and/or shoot protestors.
That was a fun game, thanks.
Thanks for the summary, unfortunately I must correct some inaccuracies on the provided bullet points
Number 1: The threat of Jail is only for those protesters who incur on Blocking Public roads and or depriving other citizens of their right to freely transit, which has always been against the law, which makes them Criminals. The threat of Jail is only for criminals. And the claim of shooting protesters is from someone NOT in the government, in fact they are opposition so it’s not attributable to the government in any way.
Hope this helps to make a clearer vision of what they have/are actually doing, would you please be so kind to update the list so we can see how many fascist things they are doing with that clarified?
Exactly, they should only protest out in the woods where nobody will be inconvenienced.
Good thing that the person who said what this article claims IS NOT in the government…
The security minister is not in the govt?
The security minister is in the government, yes.
The person who said “prison or bullet” is not.
José Luis Espert, a legislator with Milei’s party
Wikipedia continues:
He was elected National Deputy for the Province of Buenos Aires in the 2021 Argentine legislative election.
So what indicates he’s not in the government?
All I can say is that Wikipedia is not a reliable source but I understand investigating profoundly every minor topic is a nuisance, but if you don’t, it all basically boils down to “trust me bro” which is what my answer is about to be:
Jose Luis Espert is a Libertarian Legislator sure, but not on Milei’s Party, he and her companion are their own block “Avanza Libertad” while Milei’s block is “La Libertad Avanza” which Understandably might cause confusion, but the fact is that they arent the same. Meanwhile Espert’s block is affiliated with “The Pro” or “Juntos por el Cambio” who Milei’s government has made a coallition with to be enabled to govern/pass laws in the Senate. Basically an alliance
Espert is NOWHERE in that picture however. The english article might just be outdated, tho as Milei and Espert used to be friends but they went separate ways when Espert Joined the Pro like 7 months ago. Would recommend the spanish article which is somewhat more accurate
Thank you for taking the time to explain your points and you are correct that I’ve only really seen headlines and white media about this new leader.
In case you really are intersted, I would suggest r/Argentina on Reddit or r/Republica_Argentina again on Reddit
To clarify the former is more right-oriented (pro current gov, against past) and the latter is Left-oriented (pro past gov, against current)
Official new sources straight from Argentina are hard to trust, as they used to be Paid by the government and served as propagandists for it until like a week ago since Milei made a decree to halt said Payments for at least a Year (You can search about this with the term “Pauta oficial Argentina”)
They’re not hard to trust they are impossible to trust. They are fantasy, fiction publications. That’s to be expected when there’s no such thing as anti corruption and half the country is illiterate.
I don’t know how an Anti-Corruption office would go with Media Outlets spewing misinformation, free speech is fundamental after all. If they say something that’s wrong they should be sued by the affected, people should loose interest in their channel and it would die off because there’s no profit when nobody watches or trusts them.
On another hand, there are some trustable ones but of course who those are varies from person to person, for now let’s just wait until the ones that cant survive without the government’s money die off and we’ll put up to public scrutiny the rest
And yet the Argentinian middle class decides it is good to listen to corporate group news mostly. Here we have few state sponsored media channels. And if they were many, rest assured they have neither the power nor the success of Clarín and La Nación, the two biggest players in the media bussiness in the country. To be completely fair, most news media in Argentina (at least, 80% of which by far those two i mentioned previously are made of) is basically right leaning. In some cases, too much to look the other way. But Argentinians have success in defeating logic and facts with fictitious campaign slogans, complete disdain for history and ridicule understandings of economics. That is why the right wing is so strong here.
This new president we got surely is gonna be respecting of freedom /s
“The state is not going to pay for the use of the security forces; organizations that have legal status will have to pay or individuals will have to bear the cost,” Bullrich said.
Can they pay in Pesos? 'cause they can probably do that instead of burning it in their hearth.
I feel like Argentina is in for a rough ride. Meili is a buffoon, and dangerously ignorant.
They voted for this. There’s a lot of idiots in Argentina and they’re about to get what they asked for
Only about half of them did, the other half shouldn’t have to suffer because they’re in the same country as the idiots.
Except that’s how democracy works
Yes, it’s how it works. But that doesn’t mean everyone in a country deserves what’s going to happen to them if a slim majority of them makes the ‘wrong’ choice in an election.
Also note that the political class didn’t help themselves by having the finance minister be the guy that ran against him. Voting for the same guy that was in charge during the hyperinflation period was probably not a very attractive prospect for many.
Can confirm. It’s our own Trump / Bolsonaro.
Remember when that emu bit Bolsonaro? Good times.
Remember when the eagle attacked trump in his first day photo?
If only.
Nature’s way of illustrating reality.
I remember when he got stabbed… A shame he didn’t die.
