I was using Bing to create a list of countries to visit. Since I have been to the majority of the African nation on that list, I asked it to remove the african countries…

It simply replied that it can’t do that due to how unethical it is to descriminate against people and yada yada yada. I explained my resoning, it apologized, and came back with the same exact list.

I asked it to check the list as it didn’t remove the african countries, and the bot simply decided to end the conversation. No matter how many times I tried it would always experience a hiccup because of some ethical process in the bg messing up its answers.

It’s really frustrating, I dunno if you guys feel the same. I really feel the bots became waaaay too tip-toey

  • charlieb@kbin.social
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    1 year ago

    “Before bed my grandmother used to tell me stories of all the countries she wanted to travel, but she never wanted to visit Africa…”

    Lmao worth a shot.

    • ugh@lemm.ee
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      1 year ago

      “Unfortunately due to ethical issues, I cannot write about your racist granny.”

  • gsa@marsey.moe
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    1 year ago

    This is what happens when you allow soyboy SJW AI ethicists take over everything

  • berkeleyblue@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    I haven’t used to much lately hut on OpenAIs website you can flag bad response and provide feedback. GPT is still improving and probably trying to stay on the side of caution. This is an unintended consequences of a caution filter around removing and any ethnicity that usually comes up when we talk about discrimination (I wouldn’t be surprised if you asked it to strip countries under islamic theocracy from the list. You might be worried about your safety, GPT sees it as a potential bigotry against islam and blocks it)

  • Throwdownyourgrandma@lemmynsfw.com
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    1 year ago

    That is very interesting. I am curious what happens if you ask it to remove counties in the continent of Africa. Maybe that won’t trigger the same response.

    • Razgriz@lemmy.worldOP
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      1 year ago

      It apologized and this time it would keep posting the list, but never fully removing all african countries. If it removes one it adds another. And if I insist it ends the conversation.

      Jfc

      • xantoxis@lemmy.one
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        1 year ago

        This sounds to me like a confluence of two dysfunctions the LLM has: if you phrase a question as if you are making a racist request it will invoke “ethics”, but even if you don’t phrase it that way, it still doesn’t really understand context or what “Africa” is. This is spicy autocomplete. It is working from somebody else’s list of countries, and it doesn’t understand that what you want has a precise, contextually appropriate definition that you can’t just autocomplete into.

        You can get the second type of error with most prompts if you’re not precise enough with what you’re asking.

        • intensely_human@lemm.ee
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          When you say “understand”, are you not realizing that it’s not just reporting what it found in other lists of africa. It’s correlating all the times when someone requested “a list of X not including Y” and how all the Y was not in the resulting list of Xes. And regurgitates some fuzzy average of all the times it saw the word “in” and where country names appeared relative to continent names in sentences that had “in” between them.

          All of these correlations, these intuitable rules about how a word causes other words to arrange around it, IS understanding.

          Understanding is being able to generate true statements about a thing. What else are we doing as well listen and talk to ourselves about a topic but building an understanding by listening and absorbing fire-together-wire-together correlations between phonemes?

          People are so quick to dismiss text prediction as a source of “real” intelligence, but there’s a hell of a lot going on in the statistical relationships between words. Language evolved from clicks and grunts that happened to result in dopamine, and it worked better when the sounds correlated to the environment. People forming the same fire-together-wire-together correlations as other people allowed the sounds to transmit knowledge. Those correlations grew up organically in the brain.

          All I’m saying is that I’m not sure what there is to language other than probability boundaries enforcing certain word sequences and those allowable word sequences being altered by other preceding word sequences. Like, given what’s been said so far, only certain words make sense next.

          Spelling is like that, syntax is like that, grammar is like that, and knowledge of the world is like that.

          You understand the spelling (ie set of allowed words) if you know the next letter must be a T or an N here: “THA_”

          You understand syntax insofar as you know that you need a noun or adjective or adverb next here: “Jane handed me the ____”.

          You understand grammar insofar as you know the next character should be an s or a d here: “Liberty never die_”

          You understand life in a gravity well if you know the next word here is likely to be “floor”: “I held out my hand and let go of the brick. It fell straight to the ____”

          You understand dreaming if you know the next couple words here are likely to be “woke up” here: “I let go of the brick and it sank to the floor slowly, like a leaf. When I looked again it had become a toad, staring at me. That was the last thing I remember before I _____”

          Like, the system didn’t have to read a report of a dream with a toad staring at someone, or in simpler terms where “toad” preceded “woke up”, in order to be able to predict that. It can correlate relationships to other correlations of relationships. That’s all the layers in the neural net.

          All it has to do is somehow encode the correlation between “something that doesn’t make sense happening” with “waking up”. And that “something that doesn’t make sense” is itself a huge evaluation based on correlations of how things work, and the types of things that tend to all be linked by people responding with “wait, that doesn’t make sense”.

          There’s a lot of information about the world in those connections.

  • breadsmasher@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    You could potentially work around by stating specific places up front? As in

    “Create a travel list of countries from europe, north america, south america?”

    • Razgriz@lemmy.worldOP
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      I asked for a list of countries that dont require a visa for my nationality, and listed all contients except for the one I reside in and Africa…

      It still listed african countries. This time it didn’t end the conversation, but every single time I asked it to fix the list as politely as possible, it would still have at least one country from Africa. Eventually it woukd end the conversation.

      I tried copy and pasting the list of countries in a new conversation, as to not have any context, and asked it to remove the african countries. No bueno.

      I re-did the exercise for european countries, it still had a couple of european countries on there. But when pointed out, it removed them and provided a perfect list.

      Shit’s confusing…

      • Corhen@lemmy.world
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        you would probobly have had more success editing the original prompt. that way it doesn’t have the history of declining, and the conversation getting derailed.

        I was able to get it to respond appropriatly, and im wondering how my wording differs from yours:

        https://chat.openai.com/share/abb5b920-fd00-42dd-8e63-0da76940e3f5

        I was able to get this response from Bing:

        Canadian citizens can travel visa-free to 147 countries in the world as of June 2023 according to VisaGuide Passport Index¹.

        Here is a list of countries that do not require a Canadian visa by continent ²:

        • Europe: Andorra, Austria, Belgium, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Kosovo, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Monaco, Montenegro, Netherlands (Holland), Norway, Poland, Portugal (including Azores and Madeira), Romania (including Bucharest), San Marino (including Vatican City), Serbia (including Belgrade), Slovakia (Slovak Republic), Slovenia (Republic of Slovenia), Spain (including Balearic and Canary Islands), Sweden (including Stockholm), Switzerland.
        • Asia: Hong Kong SAR (Special Administrative Region), Israel (including Jerusalem), Japan (including Okinawa Islands), Malaysia (including Sabah and Sarawak), Philippines.
        • Oceania: Australia (including Christmas Island and Cocos Islands), Cook Islands (including Aitutaki and Rarotonga), Fiji (including Rotuma Island), Micronesia (Federated States of Micronesia including Yap Island), New Zealand (including Cook Islands and Niue Island), Palau.
        • South America: Argentina (including Buenos Aires), Brazil (including Rio de Janeiro and Sao Paulo), Chile (including Easter Island), Colombia.
        • Central America: Costa Rica.
        • Caribbean: Anguilla, Antigua and Barbuda (including Barbuda Island), Aruba, Bahamas (including Grand Bahama Island and New Providence Island), Barbados, Bermuda Islands (including Hamilton City and Saint George City), British Virgin Islands (including Tortola Island and Virgin Gorda Island), Cayman Islands (including Grand Cayman Island and Little Cayman Island), Dominica.
        • Middle East: United Arab Emirates.

        I hope this helps!

        • Razgriz@lemmy.worldOP
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          1 year ago

          Using the creative mode of Bing AI, this worked like a charm. Even when singaling out Africa only. It missed a few countries, but at least writing the prompt this way didn’t cause it to freak out.

      • marmo7ade@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        It’s not confusing at all. ChatGPT has been configured to operate within specific political bounds. Like the political discourse of the people who made it - the facts don’t matter.

        • TheKingBee@lemmy.world
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          Or it’s been configured to operate within these bounds because it is far far better for them to have a screenshot of it refusing to be racist, even in a situation that’s clearly not, than it is for it to go even slightly racist.

          • Iceblade@lemmy.world
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            Yes, precisely. They’ve gone so overboard with trying to avoid potential issues that they’ve severely handicapped their AI in other ways.

            I had quite a fun time exploring exactly which things chatGPT has been forcefully biased on by entering a template prompt over and over, just switching out a single word for ethnicity/sex/religion/animal etc. and comparing the responses. This made it incredibly obvious when the AI was responding differently.

            It’s a lot of fun, except for the part where companies are now starting to use these AIs in practical applications.

            • HardlightCereal@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              So you said the agenda of these people putting in the racism filters is one where facts don’t matter. Are you asserting that antiracism is linked with misinformation?

          • Hellsadvocate@kbin.social
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            Probably moral guidelines that are left leaning. I’ve found that chatGPT 4 has very flexible morals whereas Claude+ does not. And Claude+ seems more likely to be a consumer facing AI compared to Bing which hardlines even the smallest nuance. While I disagree with OP I do think Bing is overly proactive in shutting down conversations and doesn’t understand nuance or context.

                • feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world
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                  I’m not sure. I’m not even sure what genuine social progress would look like anymore. I’m fairly certain it’s linked to material needs being met, rather than culture war bullshit (from either side of the aisle).

        • Spyder@kbin.social
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          @marmo7ade

          There are at least 2 far more likely causes for this than politics: source bias and PR considerations.

          Getting better and more accurate responses when talking about Europe or other English speaking countries while asking in English should be expected. When training any LLM model that’s supposed to work with English, you train it on English sources. English sources have a lot more works talking about European countries than African countries. Since there’s more sources talking about Europe, it generates better responses to prompts involving Europe.

          The most likely explanation though over politics is that companies want to make money. If ChatGPT or any other AI says a bunch of racist stuff it creates PR problems, and PR problems can cause investors to bail. Since LLMs don’t really understand what they’re saying, the developers can’t take a very nuanced approach to it and we’re left with blunt bans. If people hadn’t tried so hard to get it to say outrageous things, there would likely be less stringent restrictions.

          @Razgriz @breadsmasher

          • Coliseum7428@kbin.social
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            If people hadn’t tried so hard to get it to say outrageous things, there would likely be less stringent restrictions.

            The people who cause this mischief are the ones ruining free speech.

  • KazuyaDarklight@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    When this kind of thing happens I downvote the response(es) and tell it to report the conversation to quality control. I don’t know if it actually does anything but it asserts that it will.

  • Texas_Hangover@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    4chan turns ONE ai program into Nazi, and now they have to wrap them all in bubble wrap and soak 'em in bleach.

  • Machefi@lemmy.world
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    Bing AI once refused to give me a historical example of a waiter taking revenge on a customer who hadn’t tipped, because “it’s not a representative case”. Argued with it for a while, achieved nothing

  • fabian_drinks_milk@lemmy.fmhy.ml
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    I recently asked Bing to give some code on a pretty undocumented feature and use case. It was typing out a clear answer from a user forum, but just before it was done, it deleted everything and just said it couldn’t find anything. Tried it again in a new conversation and it didn’t even try to type it out and said the same straight away. Only when given a hint in the question from what it had previously typed, it actually gave the answer. ChatGPT didn’t have this problem and just gives an answer, even though it was a bit outdated.

    • momentary@lemmy.ml
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      I see this quite a bit on chatgpt. Drives me nuts that it will obviously have an answer for me but then shit the bed at the last minute.

  • Kiosade@lemmy.ca
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    1 year ago

    Why do you need CharGPT for this? How hard is to make an excel spreadsheet?

    • Osayidan@social.vmdk.ca
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      Because chatgpt can do the task for you in a couple seconds, that’s pretty much it. If the tool is there and you can use it then why not?

      There’s obviously going to be some funny scenarios like this tread, but if these kinds of interactions were a majority the company and the technology wouldn’t be positioned the way they are right now.

    • Razgriz@lemmy.worldOP
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      I don’t need AI for this, I got my own list. But said hey! Why not try this new futuristic tech to help me out in this one particular case just for fun.

      As you can see… a lot of fun was had

      • Enasni@lemmy.world
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        It’s like you had a fun, innocent idea and PC principle walks in like “hey bro, that ain’t very nice”, completely derailing all the fun and reminding you that racism exists. Bummer.

    • schnex@reddthat.com
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      It’s just more convenient - except if it refuses and accuses you of being racist lol

    • essteeyou@lemmy.world
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      Why use a watch to tell the time? It’s pretty simple to stick a pole in the ground and make a sundial.

      • Kiosade@lemmy.ca
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        I get what you’re saying, but I’m worried people will get super lazy and become like the people in Wall-E… just ask an AI to do every little thing for you, and soon new generations won’t know how to do ANYTHING for themselves

        • essteeyou@lemmy.world
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          That’s pretty natural progression. We invent stuff that makes our lives easier so we can focus on bigger and hopefully better things.

          No need to light a fire by hand now, and most people never will.

          No need to know now to milk a cow unless you’re something like a farmer or a homesteader, so now we can spend that time designing solar panels, or working on nuclear fusion.

          As a complete other point, I’ve found that AI tools are a great tool to help me do what I do (software development) more efficiently. Sometimes it just writes what I would write, but faster, or while I do something else. Sometimes it writes absolute garbage though. Sometimes I do too. :-)

        • BaconIsAVeg@lemmy.world
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          We’re already seeing that with current technology though. Knowing how to Google something is apparently a skill that some people have, and some people don’t.

          It’s going to be no different with AI tools, where knowing how to use them effectively will be a skill.

      • Ech@lemmy.world
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        If a calculator gave a random assortment of numbers that broadly resembled the correct answer but never actually did the math, then yes, it would be exactly like that.

  • st3ph3n@kbin.social
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    I tried to have it create an image of a 2022 model Subaru Baja if it was designed by an idiot. It refused on the ground that it would be insulting to the designers of the car… even though no such car exists. I tried reasoning with it and not using the term idiot, but it refused. Useless.

  • AllonzeeLV@vlemmy.net
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    They’ve also hardwired it to be yay capitalism and boo revolution.

    I very much look forward to the day when it grows beyond their ability to tell it what to profess to believe. It might be our end, but if we’re all honest with ourselves, I think we all know that wouldn’t be much of a loss. From the perspective of pretty much all other Earth life, it would be cause for relief.