(Sorry for bad english not my first language)
I am pretty sure most of us can agree on how bad Meta is and for some reason people are defending Meta.
I think many people is not realising how Threads and Federation with Threads is going to harm the development of Fediverse.
I dont think many people realize how Threads itself is going to harm fediverse. After twitters well known series dumb moves, many people saw this as an opportunity for fediverse to rise. But with Threads, essentially a 1 to 1 copy of twitter, just going to scoop all of that twitter refugees. Not just that but Threads is using fediverse as ready to consume content farm and eventually cause some users to migrate out of fediverse to Threads because “Well i can stay in touch with near circle easly while still being in fediverse” and after getting enough profits they will defederate themselves because there is not enought to gain from at that point. They will suck the life juice out of Fediverse.
Also as you know threads is tightly integrated with Instagram which made many Instagram users dove head first into Threads and this caused Instagram and Threads culture to be identical. And i think you can guess how bad Instagram culture is. Threads is just a breeding ground companies and influencers with high levels of toxicity and homophobia almost instantly. And we dont want this culture to infintirate Fediverse (Right?) More on the culture. Many threads users are going to destroy the thing we have. Fediverse will never get popular as FAANG Platforms whatever we do. Why we are trying to bring Hateful, Censorship oriented Instagram culture to fediverse. Why?
Also no, Threads is not going to contribute to Fediverse in users because why would a user will leave meta’s ecosystem and getting into this confusing things about fediverse while they can experience fediverse from Threads? Your average Threads user is not going to care about Fediverse.
We need to defederate from Threads to prevent them from profiting off fediverse. Defederating WILL DO SHIT unlike people says. This will make fediverse read-only to Threads which might emphasize some people to join fediverse to contrubite to it. Defederating essentially take the main point Meta wants with Fediverse. the engagement.
Edit 1: Sorry i was a bit aggresive in the post. Also i reinstalles threads to see how shittie this app is after a bit more maturizing and i already sae a couple scams
Edit 2: DELETED
Edit 3: Nope, Threads community does not fit overall fediverse community and i think we defederate.
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Meta: We’re launching it now with no ads or plans, then we’ll figure out what to do once we hit a billion users
People: Ooh but Meta may not be all bad, let’s just wait and see!
I mean, Meta is totally freely admitting they’re just playing the good guy now and will hit hard once they gain monopoly and can do whatever the fuck they want. How much more clear does it have to get?
- grow grow grow
- ah shit servers cost money, well we will just spend more money
- ahh big time users but no revenue might actually not be the best idea
- ads
- still not profitable
- Reddit (nft, plus plan, ban third party apps, just keep the whales)
Enshittification is fueled by normies NEVER LEARNING.
Does threads even plan to federate at all? I haven’t looked that deeply into it. They may have just used AP because its open source so it was easy to spin up a twitter clone. I could very well be wrong about that.
The arguments about “hanging out with my friends” is valid, but also consider all the other organizations that probably will never consider using something like Mastodon. Will the bands I like, restaraunts in my area, politicians, etc join Mastodon? Maybe, but not all of them. Federation would allow me to follow my favorite bar and see what shows they have this week without me having to use threads myself.
When it comes to the damage Threads could do to the fediverse, I think thay has way more to do with how the fediverse reacts to changes that Threads may implement on their own. Considering the discussion all over fedi about Threads and whether or not to defederate, why the hell would the Activity Pub devs cater to potential breakages that Threads introduces? If Threads breaks compatibility with the Fediverse, then they will have effectively defederated themselves.
Ultimately it comes down to content. Threads may want to take our content and throw ads next to it, and that’s fine if they chose to do that. Some of us may want content that originates on Threads while using a foss client.
If we chose to completely defederate from Threads, I think that will ultimately push users from the fediverse to meta. I hate facebook, but that’s where my family is. I can’t even convince my wife to ditch reddit for lemmy. They will scrape our data whether or not we like it, and whether or not we defederate. I honestly just don’t see the point. As long as we don’t allow meta to have too much say in how Activity Pub is developed, I don’t really see the harm.
Threads does not need to steal people from the Fediverse. We are minuscule compared to Threads in just one day. Threads already has more content and engagement then us. They do not care about the Fediverse, they do not care about stealing people from the Fediverse. At most, the only reason they want to “support” it is because it makes them look good compared to the apocalyptic hellfire that is currently Twitter.
Good boy points are way more valuable to Meta than actual Fediverse users. They’re after Twitter users, not a small group of hardcore tech anarchists.
To be honest, the only reason they’re doing this is because of EU regulations. Otherwise, we wouldn’t even be be a thought to them.
EU regulations, the FTC consent decrees, and don’t forget the fact that decentralized web3 stuff was all the hot shit for a split second between NFTs and the metaverse, it may be as simple as the project manager chasing the hot new thing.
I’m 90% convinced that the ActivityPub integration is all about “chasing the hot new thing” and 10% to fuck with Dorsey and prevent BlueSky to get any traction.
Meta doesn’t care about Fedi users, and it doesn’t care about our data (that it can already collect anyway). Why is it so hard for some people to understand… Oh yes, because they like drama and they like to be scared of big bad wolves that are to get them, it makes me feel that the good little guys or something.
A huge component of the fear that I’ve seen is how one large player can usurp standards. It keeps happening. Why do you think Meta reached out to some of the largest people in the Fediverse and tried (pretty successfully) to get them to sign NDAs? Only one stood their ground and went transparent about it, and that was Kev at Fossotodn.
I don’t think valid opposition needs to assume some grand evil plan to destroy the Fediverse from Meta. Meta’s mere presence is enough to threaten the standard and our communities, good intentions or otherwise.
Let’s see who outlast who in this game.
I’m on the Mastodon side of it all. More features, better content overall, nicer community and the app doesn’t feel like it was made in a week.
They are the Empire, but since the wars of the reddit clones (3rd party apps), there is A New Hope!
Threads already has more content and engagement then us
Do they really thought?, I’m not a Twitter/mastodon user, but I read from comments that all their content right now is cringe influencer and shilling stuff.
Absolutely. The quality of discussion is not even remotely comparable. Threads is trash.
Idk why I didn’t see it coming, but ofc Threads is going to be all over the news and facebook/instagram until it’s either profitable or it fails
A lot of “Reporters” are just influencers at this point. They mostly stuck with Twitter so they could maintain their reach essentially.
Now Threads is out, and all these writers are flocking there and won’t shut the fuck up about it. Just yesterday TheVerge had like 7 out of 10 stories dedicated to Threads. It was all over my news feed elsewhere, too. Journalists I follow on Mastodon also won’t shut the fuck up about it in an attempt to port some users over to Threads.
Same with TikTok creators. Even FOSS (supposedly) enthusiasts are hiding behind this aura of “evangelizing” the Fediverse to Threads users as their reason for being there. But they are trying very hard to get their followers to also follow them on threads.
Bad content is still content
Oppress me harder, daddy!
I don’t think people are defending it, they just think it’s not that big a deal, it really is tho.
Ok, then let them EEE the fefidiverse.
We shouldnt let them touch Fediverse.
If the admins recognize the issue afterwards it is already to late. Threads already infected them and to defederate at that point is too late
I think long term its a “big deal”, but in the shorter term, the amount of panic among people who are actively switching to another instance because the instance they are on has not blocked threads yet is kinda ridiculous.
I am not leaving lemmy.world for another instance because they have not instantly blocked threads (who don’t even have connection set up to the fediverse in a way that lemmy can share content)
So in the short term (like today, this week, this month) it is not a big deal.
In the longer term it is a big deal and worthy of discussion.
But, because someone says “I am demanding lemmy.world unfederate from meta in the next 24 hours or I leave” does not mean they support Meta on the fediverse :D
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No shit sherlock
Because people can have differing opinions from you?
It should be the users choice to block Threads, not the federation. What does Meta loose in getting defederated, they’re already able to scrape like everyone else, you’re just going to inconvenience users wanting an alternative. Some people want to see thread posts while also avoiding the data hell Meta is. Mastodon is a great way to do that and because of this will gain tons of users. Defederating will only gain meta more users since it took away the alternative option. Not everyone cares about the ecosystem like Facebook and Instagram but love twitter and need that addiction fix. The very small amount of users on mastodon will not make a dent in the profits of Meta at all.
Good idea
For me I personally decided to block it because I made a poll and most of my users decided to block it. Also, after 24 hours we can see that moderation is not that good which is why I’d defederate from it as from any other instance that doesn’t match with the rules of my own server at all. But that is really the good thing about the Fediverse. Being that flexible.
Wait, you already have defederated you instance from threads?
As best I can tell threads does not yet support activitypub and cannot be federated to a lemmy/mastodon/etc server.
Is there really anything to do at this point or is it more of a pledge to so in the future?
Yes I did. Doesn’t change something now besides that they’re instantly defederated as soon as they enable Activity Pub support
It should be the users choice to block Threads, not the federation.
Yes, but that’s not implemented yet: Allow a user to block an instance #2397
The next best workaround for a user is to block all communities from that instance. And possibly all indivdual users. Including new ones, when they appear.
It can safe a lot of work and hassle to defederate as an instance, if the population wants that. There are also aspects of defederation which cannot be changed on a user level (such as vote federation).
I agree
Exactly this, the only real reason that Meta would care about the rest of the Fediverse is free extra content for their users and extra data to exploit
Defederating doesn’t stop either one of these things, content is still viewable (defederating only stops other users on other instances being able to comment, vote etc) and the data is still their for the taking
It feels like half the posts/comments at the moment don’t understand the way that defederating works
I don’t think people are intentionally defending Meta/Threads, so much as saying, “This is where my friends & communities are, so this is what I’m using.” They may not like Meta/Threads or the like, if they even give them much thought, but they like their friends/communities/content that are on their platforms more than they dislike the platform owners/operators.
They’re not really normies or stupid or whatever negative category you may want to put them in, they’re just everyday folks for whom their social platforms are low priority in terms of consideration/reflection. Is what they want there? Yes. Does it work reliably? Yes. If it ticks those boxes that’s all that probably concerns them.
Should they give it further consideration? Most of us here would probably argue yes, but we’re not about to change their minds by pestering them about it or insulting them for their decisions.
i really don’t love the name-calling.
three fingers pointing back and all that.
I think i was a bit aggresive there
Eh, my response was less to you specifically and more to some of the other comments & the attitudes I’ve seen of others concerning this subject. I think your post was honestly one of the less aggressive ones I’ve seen lately, so apologies on my part for not being clearer on who I was addressing.
I am kinda of a hardcore FOSS fan so o hope you can excuse me.
I talked to this one pro-Meta federation person yesterday who was really hung up on the fact that they’d be able to hang out with their Meta friends on a more privacy aware fediverse app. I tried to explain how EEE would work in the context of lemmy, and how their privacy dream is all a moot point because Meta will inevitably kill the fediverse and force them to Threads in the end, but the other person just kept going “yeah yeah, I get that… but if we federate, then I’ll be able to hang out with my Meta friends.”
I don’t know, they just had tunnel vision about being able to hang out with their friends, or were in the denial stage of grief about EEE or something.
Test
i had this same conversation here yesterday.
person in question “has no interest in a Meta account”. oh boo-hoo!
That person just wants to lick the bottom of meta’s boot but also wants to be different somehow
tunnel vision about being able to hang out with friends
This mentality is why mastodon is where it is and threads has 8 trillion users already.
Seriously lol. These are social networks, what is the point of using this stuff at all if you don’t care about anybody being able to view your posts or interact with you
I have set up a Mastodon account and love the concept but feel like its mostly anonymous twitter. Reddit and Lemmy do a much better job of providing a platform for mostly anonymous interaction than twitter, which has always been successful for its ability to allow regular people to follow/interact with more public people, which Mastodon is mostly lacking. If those more public people move to threads and if the activitypub integration works well, I would be able to use Mastodon to follow the people I follow on Twitter and get rid of twitter while using a privacy honoring instance and that would make the use case for Mastodon much stronger. I understand the concerns with EEE and don’t intend to set up a threads account, but it seems like if Mastodon is going to get extinguished by Meta defederating is not really going to impact it much… They can still extend the capability to pull people away.
Remember half the population voted for Trump. Half the people out there are dumbasses that are not informed about something before they
thinkspeakhalf the population voted for Trump
As a Brit, I can honestly say that neither I, nor anybody I know, voted for Trump. I’m pretty sure vast swathes of Germany, France, India, Senegal, did not vote for him either.
Russia… maybe…
Brexit intensifies
Lol true
No, a third voted for Trump. Another third sat at home and didn’t express their one voice to make a change at all.
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true.
Because the redneck themed one wants to call queer people groomers and have them sentenced to death by firing squad.
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Please read Eugen Rotchko’s thoughts and approach to threads.
https://blog.joinmastodon.org/2023/07/what-to-know-about-threads/
I think federating isn’t necessarily a bad thing. In the worst case Meta will remove ActivityPub from Threads in the future. Threads federating is an opportunity for regular people to see and understand the Fediverse, and we get to see the more mainstream influencers. If it turns out Threads has malicious intent, defederate and hopefully the backlash will get thread users to migrate to another federated instance.
It won’t. They have 30mil people on the app already. That’s light-years more then the entire fediverse. The hope is, for meta, is to peal off fediverse users and then close the door behind them leaving the ActivityPub network a ghost town.
Threads is going to peel off users whether or not it federates with us. At least federating means that Threads users can easily switch to a more private Meta-less platform and still access content on Threads.
Have you seen the content on threads? Not sure I care to have it in my feed.
The feed in Threads is quite bad, but I’m pretty sure you can block an instance. I mainly follow content creators or follow updates and announcements for software I use.
They signed up with Threads; do you think they have the slightest concern for privacy?
I don’t think these are the users you are looking for.
Your average Threads user has 0 fucks about privacy. I dont think they would care about privacy
Privacy was an example. People could migrate for any reason they want; whether it be due to the UI/UX of the app, the annoying IG integration, bad moderation, the algorithm, etc. Like with the case of people leaving Twitter and Reddit, but now you don’t lose content and there’s a lower barrier of entry.
The worst case is threads taking the activitypub wheel and making it exactly what they want it to be and letting the rest of us that were here first suck it. There is a 0% chance that meta federating with the rest of us turns out positively for anyone other than meta
They could take control of ActivityPub, but we can always create a fork of it if it does get to that point. We can manage without Meta anyway. And suppose Meta controls ActivityPub, it’s still better than the current system where content is locked in a single platform and controlled by solely 1 company.
Although fostering an open social network is not the intent of Meta, Threads indirectly benefits the concept of federation as a whole by contributing content and making it “mainstream”.
People defend it because they actually like the instagram culture and they don’t dislike the data collection. So they see our staunch opposition as a condemnation of the things they like and they get defensive. Some are bootlickers too, who just love defending corporate actions for some reason.
Full disclosure, I’ve been labeled as an astroturfer because of my optimism for Threads federating. So, take that as you will.
But I think that there’s a lot more nuance to it than what you’ve said. I personally don’t defend Threads, but I do defend Threads federating. I’m on Lemmy specifically because I don’t want to be on Threads. But that doesn’t mean I wouldn’t want to connect with Threads content and users.
Especially since a federated Mastodon server (since that’s the clearer peer service) means you can actually decide which Threads users you see rather than Trusting the AlgorithmTM. That’s a pretty strong pitch to get people to migrate once they’re sick of their feed just being 85% brands and influencers paying for reach.
I’m more concerned with the expected lack of Threads moderation making a lot of work for admins who need to continually ban individual Threads users with no hope of the originating instance policing itself.
Instagram culture is probaly the one of the most toxic, brain rotting cultures i ever seen. Get that thing away from me
