How the fuck did you even interview them? The governments of many Arab countries in this survey would kidnap and jail you indefinitely without trail if you support Palestine in public or on social media, and many other cave in to what they are expected to say. It’s garbage in garbage out
Considering how the Arab world at large never agreed with the terms of Israel’s conquest, this makes sense.
In the 40s and 50s they all agreed on kicking those same Jews out of their counties, though.
The Israelis themselves know it but deny it. I am confident that one day sooner or later, Palestine will be liberated like Ireland, Algeria and South Africa before it.
“Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves … politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves… The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country. … Behind the terrorism [by the Arabs] is a movement, which though primitive is not devoid of idealism and self sacrifice.” — David Ben Gurion. Quoted on pp 91-2 of Chomsky’s Fateful Triangle, which appears in Simha Flapan’s “Zionism and the Palestinians pp 141-2 citing a 1938 speech.
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On Palestine. Their country was formed through massacres and ethnic cleansing.
Which country wasn’t?
Most of them.
I must have missed the history lesson about all those countries which fourmed without conflict or hate.
Please, enlighten me.
We are specifically talking about settler colonialism and ethnic cleansing. Something most countries in the world haven’t been founded on. Take Egypt or Libya for example.
So was the United States, Canada, Australia, New Zealand.
They’re not going anywhere, and the people who call for the abolition of those countries are nutcases and will always be accurately understood as nutcases.
Pakistan and India were formed just like Israel was: according to international law and by partition.
If the Palestinians want a state, they can have one: alongside Israel. Those are the terms. And until they accept that, they will suffer. Sucks for them.
Pakistan and India wasn’t the same. it was single nation split in two. the people in it is native. Israel is nonexistent before 1948 and the people were brought from outside. as south African kick out theirs oppressors, Palestinian will do the same. israel is no different than nazi, instead israel are worst.
the people in it is native.
Some were, some weren’t. Depends how far back you want to go, which wave of mass migration you’re talking about.
Israel is nonexistent before 1948 and the people were brought from outside
Except, of course, that none of this is correct.
First, there’s the ancient Kingdom of Judah. The Jews are the same people.
Second, Jews maintained a continuous presence in the land of Israel-Palestine ever since then. They are, therefore, indigenous to the land.
Third, the majority of Jewish Israelis are Mizrahis – Jews from Arab lands who’ve lived there since the Second Temple Period (516 BC - 70 AD), who were forced to flee from these neighbouring Muslim states due to violence, pogroms, repression and the theft of their property.
We know from numerous scientific studies of Jewish and Palestinian DNA that they’re almost identical, and share a common root, most likely both being descendents of the ancient Canaanites. Here’s a very recent one. There’s almost no genetic difference with ‘European’ Ashkenazi Jews either, because they very rarely intermarried with other faith/ethnic groups. Here’s another from 2015 in Haaretz.
Palestinians and Jews are basically cousins, genetically speaking, and both are indigenous to the land. Palestinians perceive it as an invasion, and that’s understandable despite not being true. To the Jews, they were returning from exile to their homeland only to find that there were squatters who’d let the place fall to ruin while they were gone, which is also understandable though not true.
They’ll find a way to live together one day, but it’ll require both sides to accept the rights of the other.
Judaism is a religion and FYI all Middle Eastern people cluster close genetically. In fact South Arabians cluster closer to ancient Levantines than Zionist settlers. Should you instead give the land to them?
We already know Ashkenazi are European https://www.livescience.com/40247-ashkenazi-jews-have-european-genes.html
And are highly susceptible to skin cancer unlike the Palestinians.
Remarkably, although Israeli Arabs, especially men, tend to work more outdoors, melanoma in this sector is rare compared to that of Jewish Israelis.
https://www.jpost.com/health-and-wellness/article-706842
As for Mizrahis they are from wherever they came from. Yemeni Jews aren’t Palestinians anymore than Yemeni Muslims are Palestinian. Not at all.
If Jews had a continuous presence then why did Zionist leaders refer to themselves and their project as colonialism? https://en.jabotinsky.org/media/9747/the-iron-wall.pdf
You should read the Iron Wall Essay. In it Jabotinsky clearly states that Zionism is colonialism and accurately predicts that the Palestinians will resist since “all natives resist colonialists”.
If Jews had a continuous presence how did they come by the hundreds of thousands on ships? There were Palestinian Jews who are indigenous but Judaism is a religion, Jews from France or Morocco are not indigenous.
If you want to argue that people that haven’t been in Palestine before Zionism are indigenous then you still need to explain how that gives them the right to expel people already there from their lands.
I have been arguing with Zionists for years, and other than myths and lies to justify their colonialism of Palestine, the only solid argument they ever gave is “might makes right”. I can see Zionists believe in it, Jabotinsky and the Likud clearly do. At which I say it took 132 years to liberate Algeria, it took 7 centuries to liberate Ireland. No one is mighty forever.
it took 7 centuries to liberate Ireland. No one is mighty forever.
When do you think Canada will be liberated and the indigenous return to power?
What? So we’re supposed to live by the same standards we had before globalization?
So, as a human society we have not evolved to recognize that what happened in the US was wrong and that it happening again is not acceptable?
Hm.
To me, the crazy thing is that 33% of the Arab world doesn’t think it was legitimate resistance.
The October 7th attack was clearly terrorism. But to have such a big percentage of the Arab world seem to agree with that, even in such an insanely one-sided situation as the ongoing occupation of Gaza, means:
A lot of people want peace.
Everyone wants peace for themselves and their allies. What’s important is how many people want peace for the other guy too.
Well, but what I’m saying is that (edit:
calling it terrorism) saying it wasn’t legitimate is kind of wanting peace for the other guy too.I’d be surprised if 33% of Americans or Israelis thought that the invasion of Gaza was illegitimate. Maybe they would though, I honestly don’t know.
Palestinians want to live peace with each other. Israelis are the ones that want to go full Nazi and exterminate all Palestinians because they believe they are the Ubermensch.
The west bank being terrorized by ZioNazis is all the proof one needs.
Yes tell us what we want. تهريج 🤡
I think it is interesting how many people think there will ever be peace while Hamas is in charge, or that Hamas will ever let someone else be in charge.
Nobody in power ever “lets” someone else have it instead.
On the first part, I agree; both Likud and Hamas are hell-bent on this outcome. If only the one of them would stop giving the other money to keep them both going.
Nobody in power ever “lets” someone else have it instead.
Peaceful transition of power is a cornerstone of democracies
I actually hesitated to write what I wrote for that exact reason… but I decided that there’s enough implied threat of everyone else just removing you anyway and you looking stupid and maybe going to prison that you can’t actually call it “voluntary.” Trump tried his absolute very best to simply refuse to go along with the peaceful transition of power and he still got power-transitioned out.
I’m not necessarily disagreeing with you; I do think a lot of the theater of concession speeches and other trappings that go with peaceful transitions in countries far from Palestine is super important. But I think Trump actually did a pretty good job (so far, fingers crossed) at illustrating that it’s not really voluntary for the departing president to agree to leave.
Why on earth do we accept J Post articles here? It’s literally Israeli propaganda.
I’ll remember that next time I see an al Jazeera post
Im not sure I mentioned al Jazeera at all. Random that you brought it up
Their point is that those claims are made in both directions.
I suspect their point was baseless whataboutism pointed at something I never said or implied to try and (in their minds) undermine my point.
Not really. Israeli outlets literally just make up lies and repeat known false propaganda. Aljazeera is just one sided reporting
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/arab-center-research-policy-studies-174700630.html
Happy? Or do you have a narrative to spin about this one, too?
The blood feud just makes me feel… tired. And sad for the whole region.
There should be like an Underground Railroad for those who want to leave.
I’m really exhausted from all the crises happening across the planet on a daily basis. Its become as average as Tuesday. It’s desensitizing.
I would love to duck my head in the sand, but that won’t make things any better.
What I find depressing is that most of the Arab world thinks so, but the majority of people from Gaza don’t.
Arab world: https://i.imgflip.com/41f829.jpg
It clearly shows that Arabs don’t care about fellow Palestinians suffering, and the only thing that matters is that they fucked up lives of some Jews.
I wonder if they were against the Oct 7th attacks before realizing Israels response was more extreme than previous responses.
Gazens usually say what the stronger side wants to hear.
Arabs aren’t one people. They’re many different tribes. They’ve been fighting as long as the historical record. So them not caring about the Palestinians is not surprising but obvious.
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All arabs remember Jordan September 1970 so nobody trusts the Palestinians one bit and rather prefer they die against the Israeli than their own citizens. They got expelled to Lebanon after Jordan and sparked civil war there for decades and then finally getting expelled in 1991.
So if you wonder why the neighbouring Arab countries don’t care. There’s your answer.
the majority of people from Gaza don’t.
Last poll I saw shows the majority of Gazans approve of Oct 7:
57% of respondents in Gaza and 82% in the West Bank believe Hamas was correct in launching the October attack
https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-palestinians-opinion-poll-wartime-views-a0baade915619cd070b5393844bc4514Has public opinion in Gaza shifted since then?
A: raping and brutally killing is legitimate for what you do to us!
B: launching rockets on your civilian buildings is legitimate for what you do to us!
and goes on and on…
Edit: downvoted because I just triggered both parties
If the Zionists didn’t target Palestine, nothing would be happening right now. This isn’t a cycle without a beginning.
Yes, this wasn’t the UN giving Israel land randomly, this was influenced by an Israeli fascist terrorist group called the Stern Gang. They forced the British empire and the UN to give 50% of the land to Israel. They gave them 56% of the land but Israel had half the population.
In which reality is this fair? This is an INVASION. Anything happening to Israel is their own fault. They are invading a country. Anything they do to the civilians of the country they are invading is a war crime.
People just need to put themselves in the position of one of the 750k Palestines who were removed from their lands and sent to live in tents because the UN said so. You have your land, your family lives there, you’re trying to make a living… Suddenly you have NOTHING. And there are soldiers with assault rifles coming to kill you if you don’t leave.
Seriously, how can anyone support Israel? This is a straight up invasion. How else can they defend their land if the US keeps sending military weapons and funding to Israel? How else are the Palestinians supposed to defend their land? Terrorist tactics is all they have left.
cycle without a beginning
What about 1949?
How is that any different to Europe defending Ukraine from a Russian invasion? Why can’t other countries defend Palestine during an invasion?
why can’t other countries defend Palestine
Where did I say they couldn’t?
I was just posting the starting year of the current “older than time” territory dispute. Ya know, the one without a beginning that started in 1949.
I said “this ISN’T a cycle without a beginning”. It started when Israel invaded Palestine. Thanks for the date.
Okay, so where did I say other countries couldn’t defend Palestine?
As for the chaos around mUh HoLy LaNd… You could argue the territorial disputes over that specific plot of land began much MUCH earlier than israel’s founding. That 1949 date is just one example. It’s not exactly like 2000 years ago that zone was a paradise of peace and love.
People have beer murdering other people since the beginning of time, why are we even putting them in jail anymore? It’s been like thst for millenia.
?
I’m surprised it is this low.
Edit: the comments are hell. But what else to except from propagandized westerners that never cared to know from Arabs.
I wish our leaders had a sense of shame or honour, instead many of them are collaborators.
“If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?” David Ben-Gurion (the first Israeli Prime Minister): Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), pp121.
Not to be pedantic but I’d to clarify one aspect that not many people know.
He was right, except for one. At least from the perspective of those Muslim Arab leaders:
Our God is not theirs.
Islam is an Abrahamic religion, regarded by the Muslim as a continuation of the Abrahamic religions before it. So the muslim regard themselves as having the same god as the Jews and the Christians. Thus, the prophets of the Jewish religion (and even the prophets of the Christianity, Jesus) are also regarded as prophets in Islam. Many of them are mentioned in Quran in good faith. The main difference is the jewish doesn’t recognize Muhammad as their prophet while the Muslim regards Muhammad as the last prophet in addition to those before him.
resistance? Its intention was to open the doors for Israel and so it did.
What do you mean? The fascist islamist terrorists of Hamas wanted Israel to retaliate? For what reason? I think you give them too much credit, they just took an opportunity to kill as many as they could.
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@roastedDeflator @world I can only find it in Arabic. dohainstitute.org/ar/Lists/ACR…
@roastedDeflator @world My Arabic is not up to translating the whole thing, but some headline figures from my quick skim.
59% of Arabs are following the news about Gaza daily
54% following it mainly by satellite TV, 36% by social media
84% feeling psychological pressure because of the war
67% think the Hamas attack on 7/10/2023 was a legitimate resistance operation
67% think Hamas is totally unlike ISIS
69% stand in solidarity with Gaza and Hamas
No doubt about that. minus some bad details .
When you’re defending beheading children as “legitimate resistance” when you should probably take a step back and take a long hard look at yourself.
And no, before idiots come along and say dumb shit… That doesn’t mean I’m defending Israel’s actions either. It’s possible to dislike both situations.
Show me 40 decapitated babies and I will start believing the IDF
If they had any proof of “Beheading children” they would have submitted to the International Court of Justice. but they didn’t, they haven’t even dared use that sentence. but here your are parroting your Zionist Hasbara Lies and defending a genocidal agenda that have been in the working for over a century
Oh look, the idiots saying dumb shit have turned up …
I know right, the rest of us would rather you guys go home.
According to Israel bombing hospitals and refugee camps is legitimate defense. They clearly deserve each other.
It’s pretty well established that Hamas used those places, making them valid military targets. If you want to be pissed at anyone over them being hit, be pissed at Hamas.
I have no idea about the hospitals and refugee camps. I just know 20,000 Palestinians have died, mostly women and children, and including dozens of journalists and aid workers.
If Israel wants to avoid civilian casualties, they should pass the message along to the Israeli army.
The border towns had armed security and IDF soldiers lived within them. Does that make them legitimate targets as well?
You’re conflating security guards with IDF forces inappropriately. You might have a point given that the IDF is a citizen army, however, many of the people slaughtered that day were not even Israeli. Hamas never bothered to check who was and was not a soldier. They just fired blindly at civilian vehicles driving by, raped and massacred an EDM festival.
The IDF uses military bases instead for that sort of thing. These were civilians, many of whom championed pro-Palestinian causes.
If you haven’t seen it, I encourage you to watch October 7th footage, the IDF has it uncensored on their YouTube channel, after watching it my sympathy for Palestine evaporated.
Same. And Hamas put those tunnels under public infrastructure on purpose and with the public’s knowledge.
I get it: how else were they supposed to fight back against illegal occupation?
Well, they definitely should not have done a bunch of mass shootings of civilians at concerts and stuff. This thread baffles me. What did they think the response would be?
Now the whole place is condemned because of the tunnels, which Israel has every right to destroy now, since they represent the means of Hamas’ offensive capabilities.
What did they think the response would be?
A permanent state of war. Bafflingly, this is what they wanted, this is what they predicted, and this is what the Palestinian public overwhelmingly supports. Except the neighboring Arab states aren’t going to war for them like they wanted, it seems they learned their historical lessons that Palestine hasn’t.
They provoked a predictable response and then scream in the media that Israel isn’t playing fair, yet again. Evidently they want a situation where they can launch bloody hordes of civilian murdering and raping soldiers and Israel’s hands are bound preventing them from responding meaningfully. They want permanent war, but only one they can fight, only war that favors them, and they’re going to keep trying no matter how many times they lose.
Yeah sorry we killed you in hospital bro but we think some like, really bad guys were there. So really if you think about it, it’s all their fault.
Yeah sorry we blew up the school bro but we we think some like, really bad guys were there. So really if you think about it, it’s all their fault.
Yeah sorry we blew up the refugee camp bro but…
On and on and on for like 100 days now as the majority of Gaza has been flattened and 22k+ people have died, mostly innocents. Nobody believes you. This. Shit. Doesn’t. Work. Try arguing something else for God’s sake.
No. No it’s not. At all. Israel went back on the hospital tunnel claims because they couldn’t fabricate enough “evidence”. Many, many other strikes are exactly the same. They bomb and kill dozens on the hunch there is one militant. That’s a war crime no matter what side you are on, unless you are on the side of genocide and death.
Citation? My understanding is that when there was skepticism regarding whether the tunnels connected to the hospital, the IDF released 360° video footage of them walking around in it to address it. I’ve seen stashes of weapons thrown behind MRI machines, there’s been accounts from patients that Hamas members were in the hospital, there’s footage of Hamas taking hostages into the hospitals, RPGs being fired from in front of them and then the soldiers run into the hospitals, and I’m pretty sure they have a confession from hospital management. I believe there’s even more evidence, but that’s all that I’m remembering at the moment.
That’s really not true based on the publicly available information I’ve seen.
You haven’t seen enough, then.They fully and openly admit there wasn’t weapons or a tunnel used by hamas there now.
Here’s a guy that doesn’t want murderers to face consequences for their actions.
Imagine thinking millions of people “deserve” to be used as pawns and cannon fodder by their own governments as well as the international “community”… 🤢
Ah yes, an israeli Zionist propaganda outlet posting Zionist propaganda from a known Zionist lemming. Must be very obective
You know polls are utterly unscientific tea-leaf reading right?
57% sounds empirical and they even have cool little charts to go with it. Best case scenario it was: you got someone who doesn’t want to talk to you to talk to you for five minutes, or you set the stage for a talkative bastard to talkative bastard at you until you can break free. Neither are particularly good windows into their actual thoughts about Thing X but furthermore all the responses usually total like 0.000028% of the population.
You know polls are utterly unscientific tea-leaf reading right?
Lmao
Maths is unscientific now
E: To any downvoters: you are stupid.
Polling is just maths, and is very reliable so long as it’s done reasonably.
By all means have reservations of this poll specifically, but to call polls in general or as a concept “unscientific tea leaf reading” is foolish. Disagreeing with that mathematical fact is exactly the same as disagreeing that 5 + 5 = 10.
Calling social studies math is an insult to math.
Polling is mathematical…
Faked polls are forces of nature now?
When did I mention faked polls? You’re just making up shit now.
You’re either a troll or stupid if you don’t think polling is mathematics.
Russia polled in villages that they captured that Ukrainians actually want to be annexed by Russia. Can’t argue with math right?
Good strawman. I never said that polls can’t have a selection bias.
I said thinking polls in general or polls as a concept are tea leaf reading is stupid. Because it is. If you believe that, you’re a moron. You may as well say you disagree with the concept that 5 + 5 is 10.
Whoever agree with the “legitimate resistance” legitimates everything in this website:
NSFW WARNING: The website contains violent content. Viewer discretion is advised.
I don’t think you want to play the game of who can show who did worse things.
It is Israel, 100%.
Israel has killed 20 times that number and leveled whole families and neighborhoods slaughtering tons of innocent children.
