I mean, they are paid significantly less than minimum wage. While it’s not your responsibility to pay them fair wages, it’s their bosses, they do rely on tips to survive if you can tip, you should, but you should also advocate for paying service industry workers fair wages.
Look at this guy, paying $70 at a restaurant. How many are you buying for? 5?
Yea, buying a $70 meal then complaining about money being scarce is kinda… questionable.
Probably 2, maybe one at a nicer restaurant. If you’re in California or DC it might be lunch.
Restaurants when they expect a 40% tip after you drive to the store for pickup
The debit machine is preprogrammed. Stop looking for problems where they don’t exist.
You can reprogram it to not do that.
25%?
Nope: Get fucked lol
I use the same logic to say get fucked to 20% … and 19%… and 18%… and so on. To it’s logical conclusion.
Look at Mr. Fatcat over here eating out while we’re on the verge of a recession.
How about increasing wages to promote more consumer spending? Henry Ford-- a literal Nazi-- of all people, knew this!
Henry Ford paid those high wages to his own staff. He did not prevent any other local companies from also paying low wages.
So Ford’s strategy had a significant advantage over minimum wage laws, in that his strategy didn’t destroy any jobs.
When you increase minimum wage, there is a sliver of the market that gets shut down: the set of jobs that made sense between the old minimum and the new minimum. Those are jobs that people were happy to work, but which they aren’t allowed to any longer. Those people are now out of a job.
When Henry Ford decided to pay his own workers well, he did so with his own money, and in a way that didn’t break anyone else’s existing economic arrangements.
In other words, he didn’t violate anyone’s consent in order to enact his version of economic activism. This matter of consent is the key difference between the actions of a private entity, and the actions of a government.
There was no set minimum wage and companies at the time were against increasing it, until Ford set the precedence and the rest followed suit. He was the trend setter.
When you increase minimum wage, there is a sliver of the market that gets shut down: the set of jobs that made sense between the old minimum and the new minimum
Makes sense but…
Those are jobs that people were happy to work, but which they aren’t allowed to any longer. Those people are now out of a job.
Yes, I’m sure people were sad to see their old workplaces shut down who provide poor pay and toxic work environment, instead of moving to better alternatives!
Those are jobs that people were happy to work, but which they aren’t allowed to any longer. Those people are now out of a job.
Happy to work starvation wages? Are you high? Desperate, the word you are looking for is desperate enough to work for starvation wages.
I swear this supply side fanfic is so out of touch with reality it would be laughable if I didn’t realize people actually try to set policy based on it.
That’s complete and utter BS. Spain has risen the minimum wage from 735€ (2018) to 1080€ (2023) and unemployment has gone down. And if the raise in minimum wage is the reason you have to close your business you weren’t having a benefit on your customers but on your workers. And that has another very different name.
unemployment has gone down. And if the raise in minimum wage is the reason you have to close your business
… Or the complete opposite. Now that there’s increased costs to paying workers, you raise prices to cover that. And because you’ve raised prices people who were okay living before “jobless” could no longer live comfortably and now have to return to the workplace to make money to make up the difference in costs.
Don’t hate the player, the owner is the one to blame
If I went up to a kid and was like ‘hey kid, can I buy your bike for $50’ and he was like ‘yeah sure that sounds great I agree’ … I’d be pretty fucking pissed off if he was going around telling everyone I ripped him off when I bought his bike and trying to pressure people into giving him an additional donation.
For fucks sake kid, just say no to the $50. Say yes when you actually agree to the pay. It’s really not hard, and it’s all completely and totally optional.
Yes and no. It’s a vicious circle, why would an employer, the owner, start paying a proper salary if they dont have to, no one else does, and they would probably go out of business by doing so?
At some point the player needs to put the foot down and start making demands. Few rights were handed out for free throughout history, usually someone need to wake up and start fighting for them.
The US has some catch up to do, its not only waiters. White-collar folks could do better too… I’ve (Europe/Australia) heard from too many American colleagues and managers that they wished they also had paid sick leave, parental leave, so much PTO, and long service leave (look it up, an Australian thing, a few extra weeks off after a few years of service, hoe many depends on the state you live in).
At some point the player needs to put the foot down and start making demands.
And if you’re in an at-will employment state, they can fire you for that. Then poison you to all the other places in town where you might get a restaurant job.
I don’t think you understand how difficult it is to do any sort of labor action in the U.S. It’s frankly amazing that any of the Starbucks franchises have been able to unionize.
I would love everyone to be in a union, but it’s too easy to stop employers from quashing that idea. They can and will continue to get away with paying waiters less than they should and there are enough people desperate for work to take them up on that offer.
So I will continue to tip. It is not the fault of someone who just needs a job that they aren’t being paid what they deserve. The least I can do is give them a hand.
How would people remember what or whether to tip in each state?
Maybe not in each state but maybe in the one they reside, where it’s most likely they’ll go out eating? I’m not familiar with at will employment in the us but you seem to imply it’s inly in some states. What about the others.
And in the end, doesnt really matter how difficult it is for service workers to fight for those rights, no one else is going to do it for them which was my original point. What i do know is that the US has a history of people standing up and fighting for rights, it being difficult hasnt stopped others before.
People travel.
Is it really fair for the servers to be paid different amounts based on whether the person in the restaurant is from the area and therefore knows whether or not to tip? Isn’t that worse for them than it is now?
Is it fair for the servers not to be paid by their employers?
I’m at a loss mate. I’m having these conversations here on lemmy about us-unique problems that have pretty straightforward solutions (and note that I am not saying easy, but pretty obvious how there is one way to fix them, and pretty much one way only). All I hear back is weird stuff, of course it’s not fair to be paid different by locals than non locals but how did we even get down this rabbit hole? Everyone here seems to agree that tipping is stupid, that servers should unionise or at least ask for better treatment. Wtf, did Rosa Parker spend time arguing about how black people in some state had it worse than other states?
The same seems to happen when discussing about gun control. Not easy, what worked in other countries like Australia wouldn’t work here. But we need guns to defend ourselves from gun nuts. What about trans women that need to defend themselves (a real convo I had with someone, probably still in my comments history).
You know what? In other countries waiters are paid minimum wages, we barely suffer from tips issues, have universal healthcare, guns are pretty hard to obtain, mass shooting are a once in a century issue, our kids don’t do drills at school or have to go through metal detectors, white collar jobs have paid sick leave on top of 20-35 holidays days a year and if you need to fight nazis you can hit them with a reo bar. I’m not bragging, it’s sad to see how bad the US has it and even when discussing with people that agree in general with you (you seem to be in favour of unions etc) there’s always an obstacle or something that “non Americans don’t understand”, as i said in other comments you can wait for politicians or your employer to give you more rights or money but that rarely (never?) works.
No, of course it’s not fair. That’s exactly why I tip. Because it’s not fair for them and they need help.
I can’t change that for them. They probably can’t even change it.
That’s just not how America works unfortunately. America is totally beholden to corporate interests.
Also, saying “they do it in other countries” as if that means it’s possible in the U.S. when other countries have totally different laws is silly. Australia was able to get rid of guns because they don’t have guns enshrined in their founding document.
Wrong Australia was able to get rid of guns because everyone was shocked about what happened with a mass shooting, had the right to bear firearms been enshrined in the constitution there would have been a discussion about making a change to it, hasn’t the American constitution ever been amended? Any more reasons why changes can’t happen there? You guys fucking overcame slavery and black people managed to get equal rights (I am sure a few naysayers in the sixties were sceptical about that). Give yourselves more credit
Seems to me like this is happening in all 50 something states though, not just the ones with special laws, we sure that’s the problem?
Of course it is. Why would you expect different states to have different tipping policies? How would people remember what or whether to tip in each state?
Believe it or not, non-union restaurant businesses, being the vast majority in the U.S., have a lot more clout than unions.
How would people remember what or whether to tip in each state?
The tip “laws” are indeed different per state… and the onus is put on the business owner as it should be.
https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tippedThe people you’re interacting with on this forum are more than likely from more populous states definitionally. If you look up those states, they likely make way more than the 2.13$ that you fear they do.
I don’t remember fearing they make $2.13 an hour.
I fear they don’t make what minimum wage should be at the very least- $15 an hour.
This country is wide and disparate. 15$ in NYC is not equivalent to 15$ in the middle of nowhere Utah.
This is why states can choose to make minimum wage whatever they want. Simply blanket stating that 15$/hr for everyone is silly. But lets realize that many states DO require around 15$/hr (or close enough where a 1 dollar tip per table would net them 15 really easily)… and those states actually hold a significant portion of the population of the USA… meaning that most of the people you’re talking to here on Lemmy are LIKELY from those states. Does someone who lives in a house in the middle of nowhere Utah have the same requirements for income? You can look on zillow right now… There’s houses that appear fully functional for sale at $30,000 (357 results for less than 50k). Does that person need 15$/hr? Just because you’re used to prices where you live, and demand those wages at your location, doesn’t mean that those numbers make sense at other place in the USA.
So the real question… Where you live… on the table… are they already close to 15$, or close enough that a 5-10% tip which is what used to be customary would still get them over your magical 15$/hr number?
If you can’t afford the tip, why are you paying $70 for a meal?
Because that’s just how much it costs to go out to eat now. No one can afford it. Where have you been?
Again, if it’s too expensive to afford, why are you doing it? It’s not medical care. No one is forcing you to eat at a restaurant.
Humans aren’t perfectly rational consumers, capable of always depriving themselves of joy in the name of fiscal responsibility.
I imagine the crux of your argument rests on the idea that eating out for $70 or $90 are two identical things, when in fact they are not. If you do it 10 times a year, it’s a $200 difference.
The reason that difference exists is to satisfy the desire the owning class has to not pay workers enough to survive. If they did, the capitalists would have less money, you would have more money, and the waiter would have the same amount of money.
That’s better. Not perfectly ideal, but better than now.
I don’t expect people to be rational, I know they aren’t. The point is that it’s better to not eat out than to screw over a person who may not be able to afford to eat in the restaurant you’re eating in. You are asking someone to work for you for starvation wages and then complaining that they’re upset that you’re not filling in the rest of the wages.
Yeah, the owning class is to blame, so stop giving the restaurant money.
I always tip when I eat out because I agree, and this post is mistakenly directing the anger at the waiters, but tipping culture is a problem that properly developed countries don’t have to deal with.
Also, the owners do have to cover the difference to minimum wage if tips don’t get you there. Minimum wage is generally too low to live off of, but some workers get paid that anyway. If you live somewhere with a $15 an hour minimum wage, and that actually aligns with COL, then tipping culture disappearing wouldn’t be terrible.
I didn’t know eating was a luxury sorry
It’s not, but eating at a restaurant is.
Not really. Not unless it’s a fancy restaurant. Sometimes you just need to eat when you aren’t home.
It’s called “bringing food” or “going home.” It’s what people have done for thousands of years. Fuck, go buy some prepared food at a supermarket. This is not rocket science. I’ve never been forced to spend $70 on food while I was out. That’s not a thing.
Edit: look, if your position is that everyone should be able to eat when they’re out and not have to plan as much then great, we’re on the same page. Everyone should be able to eat out occasionally, or maybe even regularly. If your position is that you should be able to eat an expense meal and not care about the people who served you, then fuck you.
Edit: also, if you aren’t getting paid enough to pay service workers maybe you should go on strike.
So let’s say you go buy a car, do you leave a coupple thousands more for good measure?
Car sales people are paid on commission. If servers were paid on commission then your argument would make sense. If car sales peole were paid less than minimum wage, your argument might make sense. Neither of these is the case, so it doesn’t.
So his argument makes sense.
Tipping then should be a fix amount. Is not like if i pay 15$ for a pasta or 50$ for a stake there is a differenze in service.
Once it’s a fix amount, they could… Drumrolls… Include it in the menu prices!
Anyway i know is not your fault and it’s the american system that is cheating but you can vote with your wallet
Tipping shouldn’t exist because people should be paid a living wage.
Exactly what I wrote. Include it in the menu price so that they can “afford” to pay their staff
I don’t really get why the expected percentage went up. 15% was the standard for a LONG time. 20% meant you thought they were great. Now 15 is considered shitty, like an insult, and we’re supposed to do 18 or 25 or 30. Meanwhile prices also went up. Why am I supposed to tip 25% now? Service hasn’t changed.
Service has gotten worse at many places.The servers are still great, but quite a few places have adopted the model of having you scan a QR code, you order online, pay with your credit card plus tip, they have you pick it up at a window, you eat, and at the end you bus your own table. Then they have options like 18, 25 and 30% to guilt you into the middle one. It’s like, damn I haven’t even talked to anyone yet, you’re jumping to the end first
They went up because customers (on average) agreed to them and approved the higher suggested tip. It’s not anymore complex than that.
If every place that raised those default options instead received lower tips as a result, it would stop. It’s not rocket surgery.
So ya, why do you tip 25% now? Great question. That seems fucking crazy to me.
I thought 10% was standard.
It was, and I still tip 10% unless the service was truly exceptional.
It was in the 1970s.
Non American so bear with me.why the % would go up? Prives have gone up considerably, 10% now should be like or better than 10% then or am I missing something? Is there a point in the future where someone says 113% was okay in the 2040s but not now?
It’s basically an artifact of how pay is set. The USA has a system where pay for certain professions is adjusted only by a new law. Since in capitalism the capital class has power over policy and the working class does not, the tendency is to resist increasing salary.
Now for most workers this would simply be untenable, but for jobs that get part of their income through tips the workers can make up the difference by increasing the portion of their income they receive through tips.
So over time the tip rate has increased. It’s actually an interesting proxy for how fucked capitalism has become in the USA. The higher the percentage of cost that workers need to receive semi-formally through tipping, the more the imbalance between capital and labor.
Still doesn’t make any sense. We all know how the tipping system works, it’s funked but that’s not the pint here.
A fixed % of a restaurant bill in the 70s, 80s or 90s should give hospo workers the same amount of money adjusted to inflation so if 10% was good enough money then, it should be now too.
Hell, I could argue that prices have gone up at inflation rates while salaries have remained stagnant, so a fixed % of an inflated restaurant bill makes hospo workers the only ones that actually have their income adjusted to inflation. Everyone else (salaried) gets a well below merit increase year on year. And that’s even before you take the socially accepted tip from 10% to 25 or 30%
Imagine in 1979 that 30% of the cost of a meal went to server salaries. Imagine that now it is 15%. Either the server takes a 15% pay cut or that money gets paid directly by the customer as extra tip.
Honest question, are servers paid a fixed amount of the cost of a meal by their employer, or you are just implying that their fixed amount went down adjusted to inflation like it happened to all other industries?
I’ve always tipped 20% for good service and 15% for average or below. I usually don’t tip less that 15% unless it’s just abysmal or I’m picking up a to go order in which case I usually do 8-10%. Several of the restaurants around me have changed from 15% / 20% on the suggested tip to 20% / 25% and a few have even added 30%. And I’ve also noticed the suggested tips are calculated on the after tax amount, and some restaurants that charge a credit card processing fee calculate the suggested tip on that amount. I tip on pretax and pre-fee totals and cap at 20%. If it get worse, my eating at restaurants will start becoming less and less.
Tipping in general should be for a good service or out of convenience. It shouldn’t be expected
Tipped wages cover about 35 cents of service per menu item, ie your time at a checkout stand. If you got more than that you need to tip or expect to be ignored.
A tip is a bonus for exceptional service. Not something that you have to give. Why should i pay more than the menu lists if i don’t gain any benefit from that? I mean i regularly tip but i will definitely not tip like 20% unless the service was exceptional (i.e. delivering pizza while it’s ≥30°C outside)
This is the most made up nonsensical pretend number I’ve seen in a while. 35 cents per menu item? Where did you even get that haha wtf?
Tipped min wage in the US is $2.35/hr, and less in other parts of the world that still tip. The menu price covers about 35 cents worth of service outside of really high end restaurants (and these will invite you not to return if you stiff on the tip). That doesn’t even cover the 4 mandatory visits from staff: seating, orders for 3 max, service, and billing. 15% is the rate for regulars, ie you are in 3+ times per month.
If you can’t afford to pay for service don’t go out to eat, get take out.
You’ve been downvoted by people that clearly have never worked in a restaurant. People aren’t entitled to a night out. It’s a luxury. And your slave that brought you all these nice things to your table can’t pay their bills. If they hate it they should quit right? That’s sustainable.
People also aren’t entitled to tips. Regardless, I’d happily forego the “service” of bringing over a tray of food for a 15-25% discount, especially when “good service” is considered interrupting your meal to ask how it’s going or refilling your water (again, something I can do myself and it’s not like I’m drinking gallons of water).
I typically tip around 20% when I have to go for an occasion, but otherwise I don’t go to restaurants.
If you can’t afford to live on 2.35 an hour, don’t work for 2.35 an hour. Asshole.
I don’t. I work for an engineering firm and can afford to pay for service so that when I walk into a restaurant I get seated and asked if I want my usual. That costs money and courtesy.
I also know that when someone else stands at the sign waiting to be seated for 2 hrs that happens for a reason. Typically the one I outlined above.
So bribes then. You are happy bribing people.
Hopefully your employer will introduce a new salary framework where you get paid what customers think you should be paid for your engineering services, or not. you seem to have good people skills so that shouldn’t be an issue.
I do too well, thanks, but that’s irrelevant. I don’t get what your point is. None of that is anything new. When I worked at a restaurant in the 90s servers made $2.17 an hour plus tips, and it was okay to do 15%. 10% was for below average service, but 20 was if you loved them. 70s, 80s, 90s, 2000s, always 15%. 25% was considered a really generous tip for great service. Now people expect to 25% though nothing has changed about the business or what waitstaff do.
Cost of living has risen far more than minimum wage, which doesn’t keep up with inflation, and business owners are shifting the burden to their customers in the form of tips rather than set menu prices that reflect real costs and pay servers the real wage value of their services. That trend started in the 80s but especially since the recession has become far more pronounced.
Yes but a restaurant bill has risen more or less EXACTLY at the cost of inflation so if 15%of the bill was okay in the previous decades, it should be okay now.
In fact this system makes hospitality workers among the few that have (the tip part) of their income adjusted to inflation. Everyone else salaried except for CEOs probably only got a 1-4% increase the past few years, not enough to keep up with the increase in cost of blrent, groceries and, well restaurant bills.
But menu prices have been increasing, at least matching inflation (from my experience, eating out seems to have even outpaced inflation in other areas).
A place that 5 years ago was $20 for a couple of people to eat was $40 when I went recently, ignoring tip. So a 15% tip went from $3.00 to $6.00, but the register suggested that we should be tipping 20%, $8.00. Also, they no longer let you order at the table, you order at the counter. They no longer bring the food out, they call out your number to come get your stuff. They no longer came out to provide refills, you had to go and ask for them yourself. About the only thing they did ‘above and beyond’ was bus the table after you left. I wouldn’t have even minded all the ‘self-service’, but it was maddening when combined with a suggested tip that was way higher than when it wasn’t self-service.
Not to mention similar tip suggestions for take out, where you take the mess home with you.
15% is standard, great even. It’s this one weird trick I do. See: how this works is I’m the one with the money which means I’m also the owner of the yardstick that measures average, good and great.
I’m baffled by comments like this. One ought to be empowered to decide if someone has met or exceeded your standards, and to what degree. Letting social pressure dictate that is nonsensical.
Yup. The effect for me has been that I simply go out much less often.
It didn’t. You’re just online too much. There is no “expected” amount. Anything you’ve heard to the contrary is just people bitching online.
If you can’t afford the bill then don’t eat there. That sucks to hear I know. However the only way we’re going to reign in costs is by sticking to what’s affordable. If restaurants can’t charge that price then food distributors have to lower prices too. We all benefit by sticking to affordability.
If you’re worried about money you absolutely should open up the restaurant’s menu on their website or before you order and figure out what you can afford with a 20% surcharge. That said tipping was created by the industry to externalize costs and it needs to go die in a fire.
I don’t eat out at resturants ever - and guess what! When that happens, they bitch and moan about my not supporting local businesses, and steal millions in PPP loans!
I think the point isn’t about the bill but the expectation of massive tips. It’s too out of control to me, I used to tip 20% everywhere. Now I’ve gone back to 15% for regular service, and 20% if it’s really exceptional.
20% minimum unless the service is horrible. It’s not your fault the servers are paid BELOW minimum wage because the employer expects you to tip. But it nonetheless is the expectation and is the right thing to do. If you can’t afford to tip correctly you can’t afford to eat out.
To be clear, i think we should get rid of tipping economy, but while it is the norm, you absolutely have to tip.
At what point did this minimum change from 10 to 15 to 18 and now 20? Restaurants increase the cost of food items and your tip is a proportion of that. Why would the cost of food increase AND the proportion of tip also increase? That’s double dipping and yeah, people should be pissed about it
Because in many restaurants tipping is covering more employees over the same period. Also, COL went up faster than meal price inflation.
What does covering more employees over the same period mean? I don’t follow. Also, you’re assuming that customers’ salaries increased with COL and inflation. They haven’t. These policies just squeeze value out of customers. Of course they’re offended
Tip is a extra for exceptional service, paid voluntarily on top of the base cost of the service.
It’s not your fault the servers are paid BELOW minimum wage because the employer expects you to tip.
That’s not the case in canada (obligatory excluding Québec) yet we still have the same tipping expectation.
Yet one of the other awful cultural things getting exported from south of the border
Sure, but on the flip side, I’m paying for the service already. It’s not on us to subsidize the cost.
TIpping was meant and should only be done as a reward for job well done. Not a defacto standard expectation just because you did your job.
That’s what your pay is.
NOW, go fight for better wages. Unionize, promote higher minimum wages, be the change you want to see. But sitting here and bitching out customers because they don’t tip is a you problem.
It was popularized during world war 2 as an economic and pro business measure. That’s why we have the modern system.
I only disagree with the “unless” clause. If they’re underpaid and the restaurant is doing it because they won’t be at fault then you should tip that much anyway.
At the least they will get more money and remember you as a temporary savior for better service next time. The unless clause basically just tells me “dance for your meal, peasant”
“20% minimum” is excessive, I say this as someone with years of serving experience.
15% for competent but unremarkable service
20% for remarkably good service, more for truly excellent service
10% for remarkably bad service, less for truly horrible service
Some states honor the state minimum wage which is higher than federal and the tips really are just extra. Just so you know, whatever it’s worth to you.
In many places including Washington state servers are actually paid minimum wage of a bit over $16 an hour. We also have pervasive tip requests. I have gone to a restaurant where ordering and drinks was self serve, the employee makes you a hot sandwich which you take to go and the robot which takes your order requests a default 20% tip.
The entitlement from servers is horrendous.
10-15% and if you don’t like it you can have zero.
Worth mentioning there is a big diff between USA and Canada. US is fucked and I have no comments about tipping there.
I’ve never had anyone say anything about a 15-20% tip.
You’ll hate to hear this, but restaurants struggling to fill positions and having to offer more benefits and pay to attract wait staff is the only way to end tipping culture. Tipping will never end itself.
We can also straight up ban it. But yeah I know businesses aren’t just going to willingly stop it.
Yhea f off with that tiping culture .
Then I hope you’ll be writing your congressperson to eliminate the server wage system. Patronizing an industry that acts brazenly unethically and forces their staff to take starvation wages makes you just as bad. Don’t condone the industry’s predatory practices.
Service industry employees have lowkey become the most entitled folks ever after COVID. “We were essential” the fuck you were. Every single god damn place has 18% as the MINIMUM tip. If I see that I legit don’t even tip, and then take my business elsewhere. Absolute height of disrespect.
Edit: Just had a hotel stay, my bed was turned over once. FOR SEVEN DAYS. Guess who didn’t get a single tip?
I generally always tip what I feel is generous if I’m able to, because thankfully I just have the luxury of spare change to blow from being a little more frugile these days, watching my spending and all that jazz. But honestly, if I was smart, and truly frugile, I’d be saving that money by not tipping, but also by making a meal at home instead whenever it’s an option. But I’m willing participating in the machinations of the local service economy whenever I order delivery, or go to a restaurant, or do many things that would involve tipping. That said, retail tipping feels kind of weird except for some specialty shops where it’s totally unnecessary but something to consider when you get excellent service.
But fuck all the profiteers behind all the schemes in the service industry that exploit workers by forcing them to rely on tipping, it’s actually fucking bullshit. Wait staff and delivery drivers can get paid as low as $4/hour once they’ve received some balance in tips, when they should probably be getting around $20/hour and up in most cases. It’s actually third world level.
But nah fam what kind $70 meal we talking? If you paying $70 for a steak, a couple drinks and whatever else at an especially nice place, you bet your fucking ass you’ll tip $17.50 if the food and service is worth it, because you’re spending 1-2 hours at that nice restaurant and your service occupies an amount of man-hours that might otherwise not be well compensated. Actually, maybe 25%/$17.50 is a bit much, it really just depends on the meal and the place. I feel like I would do 15% if service was ok, 20% if good, 25% if great but again it’s all about setting.
Every time we go to Toronto we go to the same restaurant because they don’t accept tips, they just pay their staff really well. Fantastic restaurant and I love supporting them.
What’s the restaurant called? The tipping in CA drives me nuts, it would be nice to have a simple option in Toronto to go for!
Richmond Station. It’s SO good. The food is amazing.
That’s how it should be. Tips supplement incomes so restaurant owners can pocket the profits that would have gone to paying their staff better. If all restaurants moved to this model, everyone would be a lot happier.
And it’s such a great restaurant and makes you feel like you’re helping hospitality be a great industry.
Tips supplement incomes so restaurant owners can pocket the profits that would have gone to paying their staff better.
I hate to defend small restaurant owners because so many of them are complete assholes but they are not exactly Scrooge McDucks dealing with Elon Musk levels of money. Elon Musk could cover the tips of everyone in America.
Welcome to nearly every restaurant in Europe.
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I’ve lived for decades in several European countries, but not the UK. I’ve never paid a tip or been asked to pay a tip or felt like I had to pay a tip.
May be different in the UK.
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Tipping is more than just a custom; there really is a culture to it. If you’re tipping only because you know the server makes less than minimum wage from the restaurant (or that greedy restaurant owners are completely to blame for this injustice), I think you may be misunderstanding an aspect of this culture.
Working in a restaurant is as hard a retail job as there is, and working as a server is often the hardest job in the restaurant. Being a truly good server requires a rare mix of people skills, math skills, memory, and a thick skin. So why do people choose to take the hardest job there is in the whole restaurant, when it pays less than all the other jobs?
Most servers end up getting paid better than the people doing other jobs in the restaurant. In most restaurants, servers make more than minimum wage. At the end of their shifts, most servers in turn tip-out the front-of-the-house employees, such as hosts and bussers, who often do only make minimum wage.
A truly excellent server may be the highest-paid employee for an entire shift – that certainly includes the manager and anyone else on salary, and it may even include the owner, when you add in labor and upkeep costs.
In order to make all that money, however, this server has to work at all the times that everyone else is out having fun – Friday night, Saturday night, Sunday morning. This server must put up with drunks, picky eaters and other narcissists, as well as seating errors and kitchen mistakes, all with a smile, for six or eight or ten hours straight. This server, who earns more than anyone else on the shift, is working harder than anyone else on the shift.
This is the other aspect that I wanted to address. Tipping culture is what gives that excellent server the opportunity to earn a better wage, more appropriate to the effort and expertise they devote to the job.
I’m sure this all sounds very capitalist, because it is. This may not be the most capitalism-friendly forum, I know, but I’m not trying to make any larger argument here.
I’m just saying that to me, it seems like this should be a “don’t hate the players” (owners, managers, servers, rich/drunk people who like to leave big tips) “hate the game” (tipping culture). And even if you do hate tipping culture, it couldn’t hurt to consider how it works for the people who don’t hate it.
First, good servers are far and few between and yet the expectation is always there (even in Canada for some bizarre reason). And people’s definition of good is also different. I don’t care about service with a smile, or being periodically asked if the food is good. That’s actually annoying to me. Just get my order right and get my bill within a reasonable time. Even if you are juggling 3-5 different tables, you have a notepad for a reason. That’s not worth much to me, especially since those are requirements of many other min wage jobs (ffs EMT personnel salaries are not paid much more than min wage, you see them asking for tips?).
Second, tipping culture goes easy beyond dining in. They ask for it whenever you pay, even takeout. That’s just rude imo.
Third, anecdotally, service quality is not correlated with tipping. The best servers I’ve experienced have been going to Japan where they don’t do tips.
And it may seem that this is punching down, but it is not because conceptually tipping is a mechanism to justify suppressing wages/value of labor by businesses. Instead, “hating The game” should be about raising min wage as a whole so businesses pay more, and if that means goods cost more, at least the consumers are more informed that way.
