• shalafi@lemmy.worldEnglish
    18·
    10 months ago

    Remember the beginning of Black Hawk Down when the warlord’s men machine gun the people trying to get bags of grain? And the Black Hawk crew couldn’t engage?

    Yeah, it’s like that, except we’re paying the warlord’s army this time.

    • RamblingPanda@lemmynsfw.com
      15·
      10 months ago

      We told you you shouldn’t use those bullets on civilians. Here, have some more. But this time no civilian casualties, ok? You’ve done it again, haven’t you? Here, have some bombs.

      • paholg@lemm.eeEnglish
        8·
        10 months ago

        I’m not sure we even bother to suggest they don’t use them on civilians.

        • The Menemen!@lemmy.world
          3·
          10 months ago

          Publicy they do suggest it, then deny it has been done, then “utter concern”, then suggest it again. Meanwhile sending all the weapons they can.

      • ςιτιζεηsεяιομs@discuss.tchncs.de
        14·
        10 months ago

        “(…)It was perpetrated by the Lebanese Forces The killings are widely believed to have taken place under the command of Lebanese politician Elie Hobeika, whose family and fiancée had been murdered by Palestinian militants and left-wing Lebanese militias during the Damour massacre in 1976, itself a response to the Karantina massacre(…)”

        “(…)The primary responsibility for the massacre is generally attributed to Elie Hobeika. Robert Maroun Hatem, Elie Hobeika’s bodyguard, stated in his book From Israel to Damascus that Hobeika ordered the massacre of civilians in defiance of Israeli instructions to behave like a “dignified” army.(…)”

        This never stops does it?

              • ςιτιζεηsεяιομs@discuss.tchncs.de
                0·
                10 months ago

                I was not the one whow brought up this topic or the sources. I qouted your own source so you could understand that you can not just copie some pieces out of an complex topic to underline your point. This topic is a good example in which you can see that you can not blaime only one person or instant. We could do a source fight with cruelties of every party, but that helpes noebody. But I think it would help (at least not harm anyone) if hamas (which is a terrorist group) would lay their arms down.

    • stembolts@programming.dev
      112·
      10 months ago

      Check your votes… No one is buying this… We all see what is happening. But you are a bot so not sure why I’m replying to you.

      Israel is a genocide state.

    • NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social
      14·
      10 months ago

      Ah, yes, and Israel will just continue their occupation and genocide of Gaza indefinitely. There’s a reason Hamas exists you moron.

    • Annoyed_🦀 @monyet.cc
      73·
      10 months ago

      I heard this a lot. The reality is, if hamas surrender now, they will still be out there looking for hamas, because no one know how many hamas is out there, who is the hamas, or when will hamas strike.

      • ςιτιζεηsεяιομs@discuss.tchncs.de
        11·
        10 months ago

        You might be right, but to some degree that also means that hamas brought this over their own people.

        The nazis in Germany for example did the same, and whole citys where bombed by the allies. So would you blame the nazis or the allies for this? I think there where a lot of war crimes on both sides back then, nevertheless it started because of the cruelties of Hitlerers entourage. And the German people did not fight this régime which made them accomplices at least according to historians.

        This does not mean that I support how the IDF operates. The hole thing that got us in this situation this time is because the hamas attacked civilians in an monstrously way and did this over years with their missiles as far as I can tell. So I would blame them at first also the palestinians should have fought hamas their selfs.

        But maybe I am wrong, so I am listening.

        • Annoyed_🦀 @monyet.cc
          21·
          10 months ago

          You know, i don’t really wanna engage with these “they brought it upon themselves” argument, because it’s really just gonna spiral down into endless back and forth where the origin is only remotely resemble the issue today. To say palestinian deserve what they get because of Hamas is like saying Israeli deserve what they get because of Netanyahu.

            • Annoyed_🦀 @monyet.cc
              21·
              10 months ago

              You didn’t explicitly say “deserving”, you’re implying. Heavily. There’s no strawman.

              Isolating this situation in such a narrow timeline doesn’t make it better either, it’s a very complex issue that need to have a clear separation between modern conflict and past. Which is why I don’t want to engage in discussing, people will either only isolate the whole situation to the current conflict or be very quickly point out the ancient history.

              • ςιτιζεηsεяιομs@discuss.tchncs.de
                01·
                10 months ago

                I think I never had to qoute myself, but what does “hamas brought this over their own people” tell you else then that which is writen? I only am responsible for what I am writing but not for what another one feels the words could mean.

                Your next point is valid though.

        • phreekno@lemmy.world
          1·
          10 months ago

          hamas brought this over their own people

          This started in 1917. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration

          Then there was Nakba in 1948. Literally catastrophe. https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/nakba-palestine-catastrophe-explained

          Hamas was founded in 1988 and revised their charter in 2017. https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/hamas-2017-document-full

          nazis in Germany for example did the same

          Comparing a resistance movement against a colonizing occupier to the actions that two industrialized nations took against each other during wartime is not really the best way to frame this. If we look at the colonial expansion of the United States against the Native tribes and collectives that were already here, that had established their own system of governing based on mutual collaboration, it gives us a better perspective and context.

        • Skull giver@popplesburger.hilciferous.nl
          0·
          10 months ago

          I think it’s fair to blame Israel for their excessive violence, in the same way it’s fair to blame the Allies for flattening civilian cities at the end of the war.

          When it came to bombings, both sides were terrible. A lot of things the victors of WW2 would’ve been war crimes if it weren’t for the blanket “all Germans were nazis, all nazis were evil, so they deserved it” attitude that developed during the war. But who would defend the nazis? They had invaded every country around them, which turned everyone in their sphere of influence into either their enemies or their liberated subjects. Switzerland could wag a finger at the victors, but there weren’t many places in the world that could add anything.

          I don’t know if historians would call the German people accomplices, but the media and general public sure did, and that’s what stuck around. Real life is a lot more complicated than “group A bad, group B good”. Hitler didn’t come to power democratically, he was a minor player that used threats and violence to seize control.

          There are a lot of similarities between the beginning of the second world war and the current destruction of Gaza. Everyone feels bad for the Palestinians but nobody wants the Palestinians to come to them. Invaders haven’t spoken their intent to commit genocide out loud yet, but everyone can see where this is going. There is a clear imbalance in military strength, and out of fear of escalation, nobody is willing to do anything. There’s also a second war raging that has powerful allies worried much more.

          But there are also differences; Israel isn’t going to try to conquer the Middle East, the colonial powers are no longer controlling the vast majority of the world so the political situation is more complex. The Palestinians are much more concentrated in one single place, and the conflict has not only an ethnical history, but also a territorial one, going back hundreds to thousands of years, with both sides picking an arbitrary point in history to claim their right to the land. Then there’s the cold war-style military backing of Hamas and the IDF by Iran and the USA and its allies. It also doesn’t help that both sides are fighting to drive the others out of their lands; if Israel would stop their invasion and attempt to rebuild Gaza into a paradise, many Gazans will still cry for the death of all Jews in ten years time.

          The Israel/Palestine situation isn’t as simple and clean as any world war. It has festered for much longer. Barring the eradication of all Jews, I doubt we’ll see peace in the middle east in our lifetimes with the way things are going.

    • brlemworld@lemmy.world
      35·
      10 months ago

      Editorial of what? There’s no cite or anything. To me this is just some image somebody made and not reputable.

      • Maggoty@lemmy.world
        61·
        10 months ago

        It’s been on the news all day dude. At some point you have to actually pay attention.

  • NevermindNoMind@lemmy.world
    15·
    10 months ago

    This feels like it’s meant to be a joke, but it’s not.

    Far-right Israeli National Security Minister Itamar Ben-Gvir says the provision of humanitarian aid to Palestinians in Gaza endangers Israeli soldiers and must stop after more than 100 Palestinians were reported killed while trying to get aid in Gaza City.

    “Today it was proven that the transfer of humanitarian aid to Gaza is not only madness while our hostages are held in the Strip … but also endangers IDF soldiers,” Ben-Gvir said, calling the deliveries “oxygen to Hamas”.

    The incident is “another clear reason why we must stop transferring this aid”, he wrote on X.

    Ben-Gvir also said Israel must “provide complete support to our heroic fighters operating in Gaza, who acted excellently against a Gazan mob that tried to harm them”.

    • The Menemen!@lemmy.world
      4·
      10 months ago

      It is crazy to starve people to procced calling them barbars for being desperate. But here they (the fasicst government) are, using this exact argument to justify a massacre.

  • TempermentalAnomaly@lemmy.world
    611·
    10 months ago

    Post like this basically give the election to trump. Stop the madness.

    Edit: Jesus fuck! Do I really need to write /s on this sub? A point of clarity for those who doubt. Biden has failed to use his political power to stop a heinous act. We can’t always stop horrors everywhere, but here we can actively do something. Frankly, we should be delivering aid directly under the guidance on UNRA.

    Ceasefire now. Free Palestine.

    • Aceticon@lemmy.world
      1·
      10 months ago

      You gotta be kidding me!

      All it takes is for one man, Joe Biden, to act differently in this one thing, to pretty much guarantee that Trump loses.

      Yet instead of that one man stopping support for Fascists and their Genocide, we get endless parroting if this, frankly disgusting, propaganda that the “only way” is for millions of people to swallow their principles and humanitarianism and endorse a guy activelly supporting a Genocide.

      Why should millions yield in their unwillingness to have mass murder activelly supported in their name and with their taxes all just so that one guy, one single guy, can continue using the resources he has been entrusted with by voters to activelly support mass murder?!

    • EndlessApollo@lemmy.world
      42·
      10 months ago

      What gives the election to trump is biden’s inability to not support genocide. Trying to get people to be quiet about it only makes me wanna vote for him even less than I already do, since he’s clearly the pro-genocide candidate

      • HerrVorragend@lemmy.world
        43·
        10 months ago

        If you think the US stance torwards Israel would change just one bit under Trump, you are very mistaken.

        • The Menemen!@lemmy.world
          3·
          10 months ago

          He won’t be better. But as a non american I can understand why someone would feel voting a genocide enabler is just impossible. Here in Germany it is a somewhat comparable situation (but at least I can give my vote for a minority party, that might actually get into parliament).

    • EndlessApollo@lemmy.world
      3·
      10 months ago

      I almost feel like a dummy for falling for this cx I wouldn’t have a few months ago, but lately I’ve seen a lot of liberals share this sentiment genuinely. The idea that any criticism of biden or things he supports is russian or chinese propaganda trying to get trump elected. It seems to have calmed down recently, but a few weeks ago I saw someone saying pro palestinian protestors were russian spies who should be shot

    • olbaidiablo @lemmy.ca
      0·
      10 months ago

      Does anyone think that trump would act any differently? That he would put a stop to any of this? He literally tear gassed protesters for a photo op.

      • TempermentalAnomaly@lemmy.world
        0·
        10 months ago

        I don’t understand how that is some sort of salve for genocide. Am I suppose to feel better knowing that Biden and Trump enable genocide? Lesser of two evils doesn’t mean we don’t end up in an awful place.

        • olbaidiablo @lemmy.ca
          0·
          10 months ago

          I wasn’t commenting on that. I was commenting on how someone said this gives trump a win. It doesn’t, he would act the same way. They both have blood on their hands. Btw, I’m wondering when the holocaust pass that Israel gets expires? When does it become wrong again when they commit the very crimes that were perpetrated against their ancestors? Just wondering.