Israel and Hamas are both bad, roast me
That’s not really the point here. If you haven’t noticed, recently a lot of people on Lemmy have been suggesting that the reports of rape on Oct 7th were made up or propaganda.
The UN saying that it likely happened is important to counter that propaganda.
Similar to if reports of shooting civilians by IDF were being denied but then validated by 3rd party investigators, rational people should rightfully want to see that spread to counter misleading propaganda.
This is completely, utterly uncontroversial, except by a subset of the extreme far left at war with reality. Let’s see where the downvote ratio ends up.
It’s hard to believe when israel lies about everything constantly. Once people saw how the 40 babies rumor was being spread by israel, it’s normal to be critical of information.
I encourage you to look into how an Israeli soldier saying “1 decapitated, 40 burned” got turned into “40 decapitated” by a game of telephone. The Israeli government never claimed that, and clarified when they got asked by journalists.
What’s controversial is the depiction of Palestinians as rapists and outlining a systemic, racial, or cultural issue of rape within Arab populations, then pointing to the few instances it does occur as proof for a racist point of view.
Both parties are guilty of rape and sexual assault. None of that is okay. However only one is being racially profiled as having an innate proclivity for rape.
Nobody is saying this. It’s kind of racist to even assume people are, actually.
Hamas raped a bunch of people on October 7th and the far left can’t handle that without making it a systemic race issue. That’s pretty fucked up.
You are ridiculous. First you spread misinformation about the ICJ ruling, bending what the ruling meant. Now you are trying to use a ‘no, you’ card to bend my words and pretend that there hasn’t been a racist campaign against Palestinians and Arabs for decades.
There were likely rapes that occurred on October 7th, and there have been rapes of Israeli detained Palestinian hostages as well. How can you not see that one is now being used as a racial justification for genocide while the other is ignored.
You’re confusing a political justification for war against a terrorist organization with a racial justification for genocide. There are millions of arabs living in Israel, and they aren’t being killed. Not everything is systemic racism.
And as far as your history goes you’re missing a bunch of wars the surrounding Arab countries declared on Israel. This isn’t a simple “white people bad” situation.
Non-Jewish Arabs in the basic laws of Israel do not have rights to self determination. Its a fucking apartheid state. Its like saying millions of native Africans lived in South Africa. These people only had a reason to attack because they live in an open air prison that mirrors a Warsaw ghetto with complete siege from their neighbor. A lot of the things they did was retaliation and a deep brewing anger. What the fuck were they supposed to do? March peacefully? Israel shot them by the thousands in 2018 when they tried to. where is your humanity?
And yet Israeli Muslims, and Christians too, can vote, they can become members of the Knesset, can become high level judges, can join the military.
Tell me about the rights of Jews in any of the surrounding Arab countries first. They don’t have any either, where they weren’t forcibly expelled.
Comparing pre-war Gaza to the Warsaw ghetto is so fucking outlandish that I know you’ve never actually read about it. You probably read that on Twitter and have been parroting it back. I won’t argue with you on there being apartheid, but let’s lay off the extreme hyperbole.
And as for what they were supposed to do? Maybe lay off the terrorism and take one of the several deals they get offered once a decade. They could’ve had statehood with a fucking elevated highway connecting Gaza to the West Bank, but they turned that down. Defending a 9/11 scale terrorist attack on the basis of “what else should they have done” is frankly unconscionable.
“Tell me about the rights of Jews in any of the surrounding Arab countries first.” Sorry, gotta expect more out of the most moral army in the world than an eye for an eye.
Tell me about the rights of Jews in any of the surrounding Arab countries first. They don’t have any either, where they weren’t forcibly expelled.
What a low bar to set for a supposedly first world nation.
‘likely’
Left oh left.
I just saw people saying the attackers raped people during the attack.
The U.N. team said it also received information from institutional and civil society sources and direct interviews, about “sexual violence against Palestinian men and women in detention settings, during house raids and at checkpoints” after Oct. 7. The detention centers were in Israel.
The U.N. team said it raised the allegations with the Israeli Ministry of Justice and Military Advocate General, which said no complaints of sexual violence against members of the Israeli Defense Forces had been received.
One side is a literal terrorist group and the other is supposed to be the beacon of freedom and western values…
But Israel denies it ever happens and not only doesn’t investigate reports, they don’t actually record them anywhere.
It’s state sponsored and approved.
Which explains why the people who have been their victims for generations sink to the same level as their oppressors.
Read the article and there’s zero evidence as before. “Credible circumstantial information”, what does that even mean?
Just more Western media doing what they do best, lie on behalf of Israel.
Ah yes the UN famous Western media outlet
There’s literally video and images thanks to hamas body cams. It’s rough going and I doubt you’d watch it.
DNA evidence, fingerprints, blood, etc are all “credible circumstantial information”. It’s a common category of evidence, encompassing pretty much everything except direct testimony.
I thought we knew this already
We know that the initial allegations from NYT were completely false and made up. And that there is zero forensic evidence. This just seems like another PR stunt from israel.
Edit: New breaking points video detailing how broken this report is. A big takeaway is this quote from the UN "investigator"herself:
I don’t think NYT was the only one making those allegations. They came from many directions afaik.
This just seems like another PR stunt from israel.
This is from an UN team of experts though
NYT hired an ex-IDF soldier to scourge for any allegation of rape. The statements which were made in that article have all been proven false or non-credible as their stories changed multiple times.
As this report contains no additional information or facts it seems they just copy-pasted the NYT stuff.
Uhm, wasn’t this a UN specialist trip to the area to gather their own information?
The UN team visited Israel between 29 January and 14 February.
The trip was led by Pramila Patten, the UN Special Representative on Sexual Violence in Conflict.
“The mission team found that there are reasonable grounds to believe that conflict-related sexual violence occurred in multiple locations during the 7 October attacks,” the UN report said.
In the report, the UN said it had “found clear and convincing information that sexual violence, including rape, sexualized torture, cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment has been committed against hostages”.
She offered zero evidence.
The report does make a convincing case of the sexual violence having been happened.
Based on the information gathered by the mission team from multiple and independent sources, there are reasonable grounds to believe that conflict-related sexual violence occurred during the 7 October attacks in multiple locations across Gaza periphery, including rape and gang rape, in at least three locations. Across the various locations of the 7 October attacks, the mission team found that several fully naked or partially naked bodies from the waist down were recovered – mostly women – with hands tied and shot multiple times, often in the head. Although circumstantial, such a pattern of undressing and restraining of victims may be indicative of some forms of sexual violence.
At the Nova music festival and its surroundings, there are reasonable grounds to believe that multiple incidents of sexual violence took place with victims being subjected to rape and/or gang rape and then killed or killed while being raped. Credible sources described finding 5 murdered individuals, mostly women, whose bodies were naked from their waist down – and some totally naked – tied with their hands behind their backs, many of whom were shot in the head. On Road 232, credible information based on witness accounts describe an incident of the rape of two women by armed elements. Other reported instances of rape could not be verified in the time allotted. The mission team also found a pattern of bound naked or partially naked bodies from the waist down, in some cases tied to structures including trees and poles, along Road 232. In kibbutz Re’im, the mission team further verified an incident of the rape of a woman outside of a bomb shelter and heard of other allegations of rape that could not yet be verified.
You should read the report, it’s much more even handed than you give it credit. It notes the issues in their findings, it does bring it all up straight away, goes after two false claims and doesn’t claim to be comprehensive proof, but does make the case that from everything they could find out, sexual violence very likely happened.
And I think all such claims shouldn’t be dismissed lightly. And from all we know so far, I think it’s very likely sexual violence did happen.
These are the same “allegations” which NYT gave which have been fully debunked.
The fact that these are included is practically evidence that the report is filled with disproven IDF propaganda and the UN “investigator” did not in fact investigate anything.
It is highly unlikely that sexual assault happened during the attack. Sexual assault always happens after battles are over. Nobody goes on a raping spree while there’s an IDF helicopter firing at them.
The fact that all the main claims have been fully debunked proves it. The only people that still buy into this myth are those that want to believe it.
So the conclusion is that there are rape happening on both sides in a war. That is somewhat unsurprising considering they hate each other and are distinctly different groups of people. Why is it being tolerated by the organisations involved? Probably they are not prioritizing the issue. Why would they deny that it is happening? Probably for PR reasons. They prefer dealing with it internally, at a later date, when it is convenient.
Isn’t rape one of the normal aspects of war anyway? Or am I missing something here.
lets not pretend anything about war is normal, please.
This is like the third time that we’re hearing this bullshit. The NYT article did every possible thing they could to find any “evidence” up to the point that they just started making things up.
From the word “likely” it’s clear that there is once again no real evidence, just some IDF mouthpieces that got their stories in order.
Where is the UN report by the way? It is not linked in this article which is very poorly sourced.
