MSNBC is reporting that Russian sources are saying 40 dead.
CNN is reporting 40 dead, but that the shooting was at a shopping center outside the concert hall.
Still developing.
CNN is reporting 40 dead, but that the shooting was at a shopping center outside the concert hall.
In the video I wish I hadn’t just watched it looked more like that to me.
There were gunmen in both places. Videos linked in this thread show that, though I do not recommend watching them.
Are people on Lemmy going to treat these freedom fighters the same way they treat Hamas?
If you attack non military peoples you shall be deemed in the wrong by me. That said, Putin is a military leader to me, so he is an open target.
It’s worth recalling when support for the Chechen war was low, Putin initiated a campaign of apartment building bombings in 1999.
Some chatter that there were around 8 shooters, and they walked into the hall and immediately shot 40-50, result might end up with over 100 killed. One of the shooters has allegedly been arrested, ISIS-K or Imarat Kavkaz would be under srict instructions NOT to be taken alive. There’s considerable dueling narratives right now
No matter who is actually responsible - Putin will probably blame Ukraine
It looks like US Intelligence warned of this attack in early March.
People at the venue lost all phone and Internet connectivity right prior to the attack. Jamming was being used.
The entire city of Moscow is now on lockdown.
ISIS, through its outlet al-Amaq, just claimed responsibility for the terror attack in Moscow tonight.
An excerpt from the article:
In October 2002, Chechen militants took about 800 people hostage at a Moscow theater. Two days later, Russian special forces stormed the building and 129 hostages and 41 Chechen fighters died, most of them from effects of narcotic gas Russian forces use to subdue the attackers.
Those are two separate events…
The false flag apartment bombings were carried out by actual Russian security services - not Chechen assets, or militants.
On an
relatedunrelated note,some of Russian agents who took part were comically stupid.If you aren’t aware of the Sims vs SIM card mix-up, do yourself a favor and look it up.Edit: as pointed out below, the Sims vs SIM card was not part of the 1999 false flag operation, but a more recent one (2022). My bad.
They botched one of the apartment building bombings worse than “The Sims card” thing. They had announced one of the bombings before doing the actual bombing.
The Sims comedy hour was a separate event from the other two, it was a 2022 attempt to frame Ukraine for terrorism.
People were posting videos while the attack was happening. Where are you getting this information about “jamming” from? Nearby traffic distribution nodes were likely overloaded which resulted in degraded performance of Telegram and VK services. This is something to be expected when thousands or even millions of people start sending messages all at once, trying to figure out what’s happening to their friends and family.
All the videos I’ve seen are CCTV which were distributed well after the fact. channel 12 from Russia reported the jamming. I’m aware of what a mobile network will do on overload since I used to design and deploy them. It doesn’t quite work that way.
You didn’t answer the question.
Where are you getting this information about “jamming” from?
This is the first time I’m hearing this.
Telegram channels such as Baza, Ostorozhno Novosti and Vazhnye Istorii were posting eyewitness statements and phone footage as early as 20:15 Moscow time and throughout the event. There was no jamming. Degraded performance was reported for Telegram and VK. Whether the issue was with the local access points or Telegram’s data centers is not clear.
Just because cell networks are jammed doesn’t take the whole Internet down. Wifi sourced from copper and fiber networks will continue to work.
And Jamming isn’t some sort of scifi superpower, plenty of devices will connect despite the attempts to jam. Those in closest proximity to the jamming source would be most affected.
So don’t make leap that “videos getting published to Telegram” = “No jamming was occurring”, because one doesn’t prove the other.
Again, what’s the source that the internet was jammed? I haven’t heard anyone mentioning that, including witnesses on the place.
I thought Internet was already under control of Moscow, but it’d be wild if it turned out it wasn’t all this time and Putin would never do something like this again, like those other times he did
It’s worth recalling when support for the Chechen war was low, Putin initiated a campaign of apartment building bombings in 1999.
That was the immediate memory. It’s interesting how much truth will be figured out in this current case.
You are wrong on a lot of counts here buddy. May want to take a Valium and leave the geopolitics alone.
Such as? Did putin not bomb his own people in the 90s? Did America not warn about this next attack before it happened?
I did that on the fly and didn’t make a comment a day after. What counts am I wrong on? Most everything has proven to be true. Thanks for the drug recommendation, are you a doctor?
Chechens finally making a move?
It could be. It certainly tracks with the separatists’ move into guerilla tactics later in the second Chechen war.
Out of any time for them to start striking again, this would be it. Russia is stretched thin in manpower and supplies, and their attention is very focused on Ukraine and the West. Their ability to dump resources into the southern Caucus to tamp down a potential Chechen War #3 is definitely going to be limited. And coupled with the completion of Putin’s sham election, it sends a very strong message against Russia’s outward facade of “unity”.
What, is Kadyrov not a lapdog anymore? He would seem to be the first hurdle, not a later one. Of course maybe he’s dead or something, idk, i haven’t checked tiktok in a long time.
Why would they attack random civilians instead of pulling a Wagner move towards the Kreml? Russia already showed that they wouldn’t have much of a resistance to show for it.
They might have beards, hard to tell from the footage I’ve seen.
May be Islamic terrorism or a bad ol’ fashioned Russian false flag. I doubt Ukrainians or Ukrainian supporting people would do a random terror shooting, they like to be more targeted and the shooting was at random people. There was a foiled group of Islamic terrorists arrested earlier this month, maybe another group.
We will have to see what Russia says.
Yeah, Ukraine hasn’t done anything civilian targeting attacks so i highly doubt it was them. They know how important optics are when it comes to getting international support.
Well they targetted civilian targets (the refineries) but have not targetted civilians (i.e. people).
The distinction is not between civilian targets and military targets, it is between “civilian objects” and “military objectives”. Targeting a civilian infrastructure such as refineries, and even civilian power stations can be considered valid military objectives if they make an effective contribution to military action or offer a definite military advantage. The refineries being hit by Ukraine definitely meet that definition.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/when-are-attacks-civilian-infrastructure-war-crimes-2022-12-16/
The Third Chechen War
Could be Chechen fringe separatist group. or Ingushetia.
This is nuts. This better not be some bullshit to manufacture consent for war escalation.
From the article:
The official said U.S. intelligence agencies had gathered information in recent weeks that the IS branch was planning an attack in Moscow. He said U.S. officials privately shared the intelligence earlier this month with Russian officials. The official was briefed on the matter but was not authorized to publicly discuss the intelligence information and spoke to the AP on condition of anonymity.
…
The Kremlin didn’t immediately blame anyone for the attack, but some Russian lawmakers were quick to accuse Ukraine and called for ramping up strikes. Hours before the attack, the Russian military l aunched (sic) a sweeping barrage on Ukraine’s power system, crippling the country’s biggest hydroelectric plant and other energy facilities and leaving more than a million people without electricity.
Dmitry Medvedev, deputy head of Russia’s Security Council, said that if Ukraine involvement was proven, all those involved “must be tracked down and killed without mercy, including officials of the state that committed such outrage.”
Mykhailo Podolyak, an adviser to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, denied Ukraine involvement.
Days after Putin’s reelection? Sounds very suspicious indeed.
Would be suspicious days before his reelection.
Remember: no Russian.
A lot has been said about Call of Duty MWII, but if your theory is correct then we’ll have to say that, of all things, its plot was prescient. And i’m not ready for that
As mentioned in another comment, wouldn’t be the first time
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_Russian_apartment_bombings
Yeah, art often finds inspiration from the world, and since the world can infinitely be sad, plenty of art has gleaned inspiration from it. It’s way more sad when world -> art -> world though, we are doomed to commit our misdeeds repeatedly
Art imitates life imitates art.
I don’t think so. The US actually warned about imminent terror attacks by ISIS in Moscow a few weeks ago.
Yeah at this point it seems pretty clear this is a ISIS terror attack.
So in essence:
-
US warns Russia for planned terror attack in Moscow
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Russian government and Putin specific either ignore it for the reason the west is fooling them because would fit narrative for the war in Ukraine. Or
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Russian government is just incompetent to do anything with that information. Or they know and deliberately don’t do anything with it to link it to Ukraine (even though the perpetrators are IS). Since this was also done in 1999 to blame the Chechnyans, it would fit the profile.
Either way it will be Soviet style lying. The incompetence will be wiped under the rug. The deliberate holding back information and not adequate precautions will not be easily to be proven, yet it creates the narrative for the mobilisation. Fear is Russia’s weapon of mass destruction, the lies are the instruments to fire those weapons.
“Every lie we tell incurs a debt to the truth. Sooner or later, that debt is paid.”
Or, hold your breath now, because it was the GRU that planned the attack.
I mean the ‘chechn’ bombings were absolutely orchestrated by Putin, that’s how he came to power
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Reminds me of Inglourious Basterds
Very much so!
China and Russia just blocked a truce in Gaza. Makes sense.
There was no truce in that proposal. Just some stern words.
It was a cease fire proposal - you have to start somewhere. But Russia and China think it’s better to use Gazans a political pawns in the upcoming US elections, so surprise, surprise - some would disagree.
It was a temporary ceasefire proposal, the US has already blocked 3 permanent ceasefire proposals.
Same way Israel has been rejecting every permanent ceasefire for months. Because they prioritize extending genocide in Gaza over the release of hostages.
Stalinist. Makes sense - twist away. Blocked.
I’m not pro Stalin at all. Don’t know why you’d rather get mad at my name instead of the US and Israel prioritizing genocide over any avenues of peace.
This is about Palestinians deserving human rights, civil rights, and equality instead of ethnic cleansing.
My bet: Russian false flag operation allowing them to pin the attack on Ukraine and stir up anti Ukrainian sentiment.
EDIT: My bet was likely wrong.
From what I have read, Russian government is already trying to blame Ukraine. Deepfakes where secretary of nsdc of Ukraine takes responsibility for the attack are being shown on Russian TV. Medvedev said in his tg that they will punish “Kievan regime” if it’s responsible for the attack.
Didn’t a lot of western countries warn their citizens to not attend any public gatherings in Moscow a couple of weeks ago due to an imminent Isis attack?
Yes indeed.
Most recent claims are that ISIS did it, so this is looking like an attack from israel against Putin for thwarting him.
For those who don’t know ISIS is an israeli proxy
Oh hush.
You are going to need to at least provide some sort of source to make a batshit insane comment like that.
Lol what the actual fuck are you smoking because please provide it to the rest of the class.
It was the first thing they went for
Has anybody claimed responsibility for this yet? This doesn’t sound like the Ukraine. They hit strategic shit.
IS has apparently claimed responsibility via telegram
It wouldn’t surprise me if this was Putin’s doing. He has a history of committing violence against him own people and blaming others.
Not seeing anything yet but it can be hard to get accurate news reporting from a country that kills subversive journalists and is in a war. I think most are assuming it’s either an internal or external paramilitary group related to the war in Ukraine, or domestic terrorists related to the recent elections, I think targeting a concert is more likely the latter but we’ll see which group takes responsibility if any.
The article mentions the US warned of an imminent attack last month and the Russian state dismissed it. Russia also has a history of utilizing false flag operations to start shit, so I’m leaning towards that atm (before more details come out)
But Russia will immediately blame it on Ukraine and the west anyway lol
Likely despite US intelligence warning about imminent terror attacks in Russia earlier this month.
Maria Zacharova (Kremlin) seems to think the most important thing right now is that the whole world condemns the attack, which I find to be a kind of weird priority since the thing just happened and we have no fucking clue what is going on.
You can still condemn it even if you don’t know exactly who’s behind it.
deleted by creator
Absolutely! It wasn’t my intention to insinuate that you cannot. My point is that she was very quick to come out and demand it be done. Of course terror attacks should be condemned. All I’m saying is that the Kremlin has some weird priorities when there’s an ongoing attack. Almost like they’re trying to control the discussion and steer it towards something else.
Maria Zacharova (Kremlin) seems to think the most important thing right now is that the whole world condemns the attack
nah I don’t condemn anything. Either it was some pro-ukranian group (fair, bring the war to russia!), or more likely, some covert op from the fsb so that this russian cunt in charge can order a new drafting…
fair, bring the war to russia
ah yes, “bringing war to russia” now means shooting innocents, because responding to terrorism with even more terrorism works so well
gotta fuckin love reddit
gotta fuckin love reddit
this is lemmy.
ah yes, “bringing war to russia” now means shooting innocents, because responding to terrorism with even more terrorism works so well
Yes innocents die in war, thats what happens. It’s cruel, it’s not fair but this can happen if you attack other countries, although I don’t believe that this is caused by ukranians…
Yes innocents die in war, thats what happens. It’s cruel, it’s not fair but this can happen if you attack other countries
I’d love to see you say that if someone gunned down your compatriots. Or better yet, your family. Surely your condescending Realpolitik tone wouldn’t falter, right?
although I don’t believe that this is caused by ukranians…
Neither do I. ISIS has taken responsibility for this.
this is lemmy.
Quaks like a duck.
It is never fair to murder civilians. I don’t blame Ukraine if there is terrorism and insurgency due to the occupation of eastern Ukraine, that’s firmly Putin’s fault. But that also doesn’t make it ok.
And suddenly here you are standing together in sympathetic unity with The Kremlins. It’s hard making people see propaganda when they have become so desensitized to it
Let’s hope Putin will find some way to finally stop the forces of evil defiling his land after this.
I mean… Putin did get into power by running false flag terrorist bombings on his own country, so there’s that angle too.
Yea, but to stay in power all he has to do is rig the elections, so that theory doesn’t really make sense. I am not saying that a false flag attack is out of the question, but if it is a false flag, the reason for doing it is probably not to keep Putin in power.
Russia is not against doing false flag terrorist operations. That is how Putin came to power.
Also Putin is not Russia
Per the article, no one claimed responsibility
Yep, was hoping for updated news.
PSA. It’s Ukraine, just Ukraine. Not “The Ukraine”
That and Kiev/Kyiv have been enlightening since this whole thing kicked off. I’ve got a couple Russian language textbooks but think it’s time to update to some Ukrainian
It’s like Cologne/Köln, doesn’t make sense as a point of contention.
ISIS is reportedly responsible.
Source?
The linked article
24 hours ago that wasn’t the case.
Oh
This would have the opposite effect for Ukraine. It would cause Russians to actually rally around the flag and be more pro war. The Ukrainian strategy has been to just kill Russian combatants and hope they kill enough that Russians themselves start protesting the war on the home front.
And blow up oil refineries that fund the war machine.
A thing that’s really annoying to me about this is they don’t specify what the gunmen looked like and specifically what rifles they were carrying. IS has claimed responsibility, but if it was a bunch of Russian dudes with brand new AKs, it’s far less likely it was actually the IS, and was just an FSB op. Granted the FSB could have supplied brand new AKs, but far less likely to be IS if it was just some Russian commandos
they’ve been known to recruit remotely, I think. and if it was someone from afganistan, i imagine they would source weapons locally. why would the guy go through the trouble/risk of smuggling a rifle and ammo? that makes no sense.
As if the worst foe of the Islamic state right now is the Russian Federation … very suspicious especially when many embassies warned their citizens to leave Russia just a week ago because they had Intel about major terror attacks coming to Russia.
The Islamic State has plenty of reasons to hate Russia, such as their continued cooperation with the Assad government and Iran, the Chechen Wars, their military campaigns in Afghanistan… just to name a few. You don’t need to be “the worst foe” to be targeted by ISIS, as many of their attacks have shown.
When it comes to foes Israel, US, France, UK, Germany, Netherlands; KSA, UAE should top the list.
unless someone else is pulling the strings and using them to advance their geopolitical agendas. terror attacks abroad have almost no impact on rallying support in the regions they want control over.
It would be ISIS’s wet fucking dream for Russia to honestly believe the west was directly or indirectly responsible for this.
For your conspiracy theory to be plausible you need to suspend the expectation that ISIS would operate in their own best interests. Usually a bad bet.
have they tried to blame this on Woke yet?
Of course not, they’re already blaming Ukraine.
US security services have notified Russia of an impending attack, they notified US citizens there to about large gatherings
Gunmen went in calmly, shot at people for 1.5 hours without being stopped, then calmly walked back into a car and drove off.
IS claimed responsibility immediately
All of this clearly shows it was the Ukraine!
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Russian news reports said that the assailants also used explosives, causing a massive blaze at the Crocus City Hall on the western edge of Moscow.
Video posted on social media showed huge plumes of black smoke rising over the building.
Russia’s state RIA Novosti news agency reported that at least three people in combat fatigues fired weapons.
Extended rounds of gunfire could be heard on multiple videos posted by Russian media and Telegram channels.
Another one showed a man inside the auditorium, saying the assailants set it on fire, with incessant gunshots ringing out in the background.
Andrei Vorobyov, the governor of the Moscow region, said he was heading to the area and set up a task force to deal with the damage.
The original article contains 202 words, the summary contains 123 words. Saved 39%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
The Islamic State group claimed responsibility for the attack in a statement posted on affiliated channels on social media. A U.S. intelligence official told The Associated Press that U.S. intelligence agencies had learned the group’s branch in Afghanistan was planning an attack in Moscow and shared the information with Russian officials.
Respect to USA for trying.
“Dear USA pliese not to disturb Russian false fleg operetion. It cost many rubles to setup.”
The problem is that, this helps Putin. If we assume he has no regard for human life, then this is a massive opportunity for him. He’s made the most out of opportunities like this one in the past.
This attack on innocent lives is a profound tragedy as it is. I wish I could spend more time dwelling on the plight of the victims but my brain won’t stop panicking about all the ways Putin can exploit this situation to ruin even more lives.
It’s why I couldn’t shake the idea that this might be a false flag operation. It’s why I can’t deny the prospect that perhaps Russian security services didn’t do all they could to stop this before it occurred.
My thoughts to the victims and those close to them.
It wouldn’t exactly be the first time he’d do something like this, although if this is the case it’d be quite extreme even for him.
Nope, seems exactly in par, actually.
You’re not wrong, and he’s obviously using it to full effect either way, but it just boggles my mind a bit that they probably knew full well this’d happen and they let it, smack middle in Moscow of all places.
It’s not exactly a good look no matter how much that demented fuck tries to spin it.
