I am so tired of the whole “cool pope” thing with Francis. It’s 100% PR.
The Vatican is still covering up little boy rape, right?
And I think an organisation covering for pedophiles and murdering kids in their schools have no moral high ground and it is definitely unfit to lecture anyone on human dignity.
Eat a bag of dicks Francis
Exactly. There people are a threat, not role models.
The Vatican said Pope Francis had approved the document, which also reaffirms its condemnation of surrogacy, saying the practice represents “a grave violation of the dignity of the woman and the child”.
“A child is always a gift and never the basis of a commercial contract,” the document says. “Every human life, beginning with that of the unborn child in its mother’s womb, cannot be suppressed, nor become an object of commodity.”
The ethical problems with surrogacy are real, but they’re not about the child. They’re about income inequality and putting adult women through a physically traumatic, dangerous, and possibly life-changing experience for money. If we were able to use artificial wombs for “surrogacy” (I know, it’s technically not the same thing), I think people would see it as nothing but a new type of fertility medicine.
My cousin did it because she wanted to help someone have a child. She didn’t do it for the money. When it’s a financial transaction, I see the issue.
It also helps LBGT couples who can’t have children get them. I don’t see an issue even if there is money involved if it is clearly not coerced.
plenty of unwanted people out there to adopt, no need to make more
Do you know how hard it is for a gay couple to adopt in the U.S.?
Espically since religious groups run the show to facilitate a sort of human trafficking
Separate from any discussion about surrogacy, that’s fucked and our adoption system should be way more accepting of gay couples than it is. There’s no reason it should be so hard.
The issue is ensuring its clearly not coerced, which is effectively impossible in practice. Unfortunately it’s one of those things where once you allow people to be paid for it, it’s gets really, really dark, really, really quickly.
I don’t think it’s impossible at all. If the surrogate knows the person or people who want the child personally, it’s almost certainly not coerced even if money changes hands.
Im not sure I can be so confident just because the surrogate knows the couple. If anything that would make me more worried about coercion. That could easily add MORE pressure for a surrogate to take on the pregnancy if that surrogate knows how important it is to the couple.
Exactly. My cousin liked being pregnant but they already had five kids. Yes; she was paid but the money was token. It paid for medical care, food, etc. to her it was about helping someone.
I don’t know how I feel about it overall (surrogacy, not gay people getting to have children, that’s beautiful), but it’s hard to be confident there’s no coercion when money is involved. The money itself can be coercive especially if the surrogate is particularly in need of the money. I’m not sure it can always be “clear” it’s not coerced.
In the U.S., where medical care is expensive, I think money to cover that should be expected.
Absolutely! And more to cover other expenses like maternity clothing, any comfort items to manage the pregnancy, additional dietary needs, and probably some more to help account for how traumatic a pregnancy can be and the body changes it causes.
I’m absolutely not advocating that a surrogate shouldn’t get paid. Just that it’s hard to separate payment from coercion in even the best situations.
Ah yes, recknognizing that human beings come in many different forms is the “threat to human dignity”, and definitely not the practice of trying to aggressively (even violently) shoehorn others into neat, convenient categories. 🙄
Letting people live the life they chose for themselves: unacceptable!
Forcing them to be unhappy and never find peace with themselves: just as god intended.
Lol
I say diddling kids is a threat to human dignity.
That’s where you and the pope will just have to agree to disagree.
Get Fucked Pedo Leader!!!
LOL, every single surrogate I’ve ever met personally, with the exception of one, has been a staunch Christian.
I hope you don’t think your anecdotal experience indicates anything.
There are a ton of resources for LGBT people looking for surrogates and how to find them.
Edit: Sorry, I thought this was a reply to something else. Ignore.
Interesting. My cousin is a staunch Christian. She did it for a gay couple. She’s the only one I’ve known. So no idea if that’s universally true or not.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
The Vatican has described the belief in gender fluidity as “a concession to the age-old temptation to make oneself God”, as it released an updated declaration of what the Catholic church regards as threats to human dignity.
The new Dignitas infinita (Infinite Dignity) declaration released by the Vatican’s doctrinal office on Monday after five years in the making reiterates Pope Francis’s previous criticism of what he has called an “ugly ideology of our time”.
Reiterating opposition to gender reassignment surgery, it adds: “It follows that any sex-change intervention, as a rule, risks threatening the unique dignity the person has received from the moment of conception.”
The Holy See distinguished between these sorts of surgeries and procedures to resolve “genital abnormalities” that are present at birth or develop later.
The Vatican said Pope Francis had approved the document, which also reaffirms its condemnation of surrogacy, saying the practice represents “a grave violation of the dignity of the woman and the child”.
Fernández, a liberal theologian who was appointed to the DDF role – one of the Vatican’s most powerful positions – by Francis last year, said punishing homosexuality was “a big problem” and that it was “painful” to see some Catholics support anti-homosexuality laws.
The original article contains 417 words, the summary contains 203 words. Saved 51%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
Ah yes, it is uniquely dignified to hate your body and feel like an alien inside it.
The Vatican has described the belief in gender fluidity as “a concession to the age-old temptation to make oneself God”
Better update the bible in English to refer to god as “they” instead of always using male pronouns, then.
I mean, no update needed:
Then God said, “Let us make humans in our image, according to our likeness, and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the air and over the cattle and over all the wild animals of the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth.”
So God created humans in his image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.
- Genesis 1:26-27
This passage uses a plural for God and refers to the image of God as male and female (likely a remnant of when it was a divine couple before the reforms, but still).
Attack and dethrone god
Lucifer tried!
Who the fuck do these Vatican people think they are, to lecture others on morality? The previous pope instructed all of Catholosism that they were not to report pedophile priests to the police on pain of excommunication. And this is apparently fine by the current pope.
They are a bunch of idiots with no coherent concept of morality. All morality is based on personal responsibility, but most Christians seem to think they can ask their imaginary friend - rather than the one they have wronged - for forgiveness, and be granted it! It is absolutely absurd. I’m not saying that Christians in general are bad people, I’m just saying we shouldn’t be looking towards Christianity or any of its leaders for moral guidance.
Incidentally - do you know which World War 2 nazis were excommunicated for their crimes by the Catholic church? You’d probably be surprised to know that it was only one. One! And who was it? It was Joseph Goebbels. Among all the heinous crimes commited by the nazis, what was it that Goebbels specifically did that caused the Catholic church to say “enough is enough”? I’ll tell you what he did: He married a divorced protestant. “That’s it,” the Catholic church said, “you no longer get to go to heaven with your fellow nazi war criminals. Killing 13 million people in the Holocaust alone we can live with, but marrying a divorced protestant? No, we can’t have that, that would be, like, totally immoral dude.”
But surely, I hear you say, the Catholic church was against the nazis? No. No, they were not. Hitler’s birthday was celebrated in German Catholic churces all throughout the war. Only in 1960’s did the Catholic church apologize for its silence during the Holocaust, and revert the hitherto established doctrine that all currently living Jews - including children - are personally responsible for killing Jesus. That’s why they didn’t oppose the Holocaust - because the Jews (never mind that they weren’t the only victims) had it coming, since they were all (some-fucking-how) personally responsible for “killing Jesus”.
So, yeah. I’m not going to let these morons lecture me or anyone else on morality.
Who the fuck do these Vatican people think they are
The most powerful government in the world.
Agreed. Being slightly less of an asshole than one”s predecessor is definitely not the same as being “cool”.
There are a couple of institutions that keep trying to bring us back to the middle ages. I suggest we get rid of them for good before they declare the next holy crusade. Dear Pope, you suck!