Can someone give me a brief rundown on what it means to be federated vs defederated? New to lemmy
Really basic summary
Federated means that instances are connected, i.e. lemmy.world accounts and posts can interact with sh.itjust.works ones.
Defederated means that one of the instances is blocked by the other, so all communication between the two is blacklisted.
Oh okay, that makes sense. And I’m assuming “Defederations” in the image is like the number of accounts in that defederated group?
The number of instances, not accounts. The instance is the entire server. All of Lemmy.world would be one instance.
Worth noting that there are lots of people who also run personal instances off of their home server. So like they may be the only user in that instance, or have a few friends who use it too. And they would also count as one instance on this chart.
It’s the number of instances that have blocked them.
Accounts can’t defederate afaik. There’s a way to block instances on some apps, but it’s client-side and really just hides posts from that instance.
Awesome, thanks for the explanation :) Now I’m curious as to what poa.st did/does to be so reviled
they’re pedophile nazis who do harassment campaigns against minorities basically
I don’t know the whole deal with them, but off the top of my head I know it’s a very far-right social media site that was fairly mainstream for a while. It got a lot of media coverage after getting hacked, so I guess a lot of people ended up blocking it once they heard of it.
I don’t know the full story. They were probably just a bunch of trolls like a lot of the other instances.
Good that threads.net is in top 50 but I would’ve liked to see it higher. Right now it is at 39th place.
Edit: Also what is the source for the picture?
Thank you.
For me a lot of the interesting part isn’t which instances are being defederated, but why. Giving a quick glance, most defed reasons seem to be fairly sensible, with only a few being assumptive or outright idiotic (like blanket top domain defederation).
I like that clicking on the instance shows the reason given (if any) for each defederation.
My favorite:
abusive admin - threatened to send Hillary Clinton feet pics. Also, pedo
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What’s up with the downvotes?
It’s so weird.
Due to the fact that Facebook has chosen to involve software that will allow the theft of my personal information, I do declare the following: on this day, 30th November 2014, in response to the new Facebook guidelines and under articles L.111, 112 and 113 of the code of intellectual property, I declare that my rights are attached to all my personal data, drawings, paintings, photos, texts etc… published on my profile since the day I opened my account. For commercial use of the foregoing my written consent is required at all times. Those reading this text can copy it and paste it on their Facebook wall. This will allow them to place themselves under the protection of copyright. By this release, I tell Facebook that it is strictly forbidden to disclose, copy, distribute, broadcast, or to take any other action against me on the basis of this profile and/or its contents. The actions mentioned above apply equally to employees, students, agents and/or other staff under the direction of Facebook. The contents of my profile include private information. The violation of my privacy is punished by the law (UCC 1 1-308 - 308 1 -103 and the Rome Statute). Facebook is now an open capital entity. All members are invited to post a notice of this kind, or if you prefer, you can copy and paste this version. If you have not published this statement at least once, you will tacitly allow the use of elements such as your photos as well as the information contained in your profile update. Do not share. Just copy on paste on your wall.
People who downvote you don’t get it. That was funny!
Lmao it was funny seeing that making the rounds
Goofy ah copypasta. Copyright applies automatically, you don’t need to publish a statement proclaiming it. Facebook is already forbidden from using your work commercially without your consent. They’ll do it anyway though because Zuck knows he can get away with it
You missed the point. The commenter is explaining why the parent commenter was heavily downvoted (hint: they’re doing something similar.)
Cringe.
You’re missing the commenter’s observation through that facebook joke.
AI simps. There’s more and more of them on the fediverse, for some reason. They’re getting a bit less active on Mastodon, as Elongated Muskrat is also being an AI fan.
I think AI is annoying AF and Elon Musk can fuck right off.
But this “license disclaimer” has the energy of mom posting one of these “I herby forbid facebook to use my images and personal data” disclaimer to their facebook profile.
And adding this idocy to literally every lemmy comment just makes you look like a right twat.
I don’t think the license will do anything legally, but I hope the inclusion of the license poisons some data for LLM training. Unfortunately, it is all really uniform across all the people doing it and all their comments, so it will be easy to strip out.
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The anti-commercial useless link.
No clue.
My theories:
- A lot of people like threads.net
- They don’t like I asked for a source
- Or they don’t like the copyleft license
Because that’s literally all the information my comment gives.
My theory -
Your comments clutter up threads with the stupid links posted every single comment at the bottom.
If everyone did this, comment threads would be unreadable.
Get rid of them.
It’s the silly license thing
The copyleft license link does nothing to prevent what you’re trying to prevent.
HELLO MY DEAR FACEBOOK FRIENDS! I RECENTLY LEARNED THAT FACEBOOK RECENTLY CHANGED THEIR TERMS AND AGREEMENTS RECENTLY. NOW YOU MUST COPY AND PASTE THIS TEXT TO THE END OF ALL OF YOUR COMMENTS OR JARK SUCKERBURG WILL EAT YOUR BALLS.
THE TEXT IS THIS:
I DO NOT WANT JARK SUCKERBURG TO EAT MY BALLS.
MAKE SURE YOU DO THIS OR JARK WILL EAT YOUR BALLS!!! 1
I DO NOT WANT JARK SUCKERBURG TO EAT MY BALLS.
Higher than the blatant pedo instances? Those are too far down on the list, tbh.
I have to know what the Detroit soccer team did to get so high on that list. Somebody here must know. Please!
it’s a big pedo instance iirc
Really? I know they have a bunch of porn bots, I don’t think I ever interacted with someone on there, just saw bot posts in my federated feed. I never noticed anything pedoish, but of course I don’t click content warnings so I wouldn’t know, I’m not interested in NSFW stuff on fedi.
That’s how they were reported to fediseer iirc, or at least they care… So… Instant defed for me.
I was going to guess racially based comments about crime in detroit idk
I visited a few out of mindless curiosity and ignorance. I have no idea wtf I read and now the FBI is after me…
#2 represent! Getting defederated is street cred. If crybabies don’t like you you’re doing something right.
I don’t mess with fedi anymore though, besides dicking around on here. Socially I’m all about Nostr now, it’s the future of the non corpo social media, federated network architecture is simply too prone to abuse.
What’s are a good three websites that you recommend using the protocol?
damus.io, snort.social and coracle.social seem to he popular sites, but nostr isn’t sites like the fediverse is. It’s a network made up of relays and clients, and the clients can be web clients or they can be applications on your phone or computer. I’m partial to client applications, but to dip your toes in going to a web client like the ones above work good.
I will ALAWYS use the web client over an app, even when they deliberately make the web client shitty to force people on the app, because fuck them trying to track my device usage to sell my data.
Case-in-point, I use the Voyager web client so I don’t need to use the fucking app.
So thank you for providing those web client sites.
Well, often Nostr clients are open source and have no telemetry. I personally prefer native applications when I can verify that that is the case.
coracle.social does not work, and damus.io is not a web app.
Nostr will just end up like voat
Lmao I remember going all in on Voat for like 2 days before I realized everyone else there was a nazi
That’s actually nor possible because there’s no global feed. Your network is what you make of it. I’m not a fan of voat types so I don’t interact with them online all that often.
It’s interesting, the people that tell you that they’re in the majority somehow also believe that online spaces that are left for open discussion don’t wind up the way they want them to, almost as if they’re a minority.
Or they’re just not interested in wading through far-right extremists for 3 shitty memes.
After all, if your theory about “open spaces turn into Nazis and pedos because most people are secretly Nazis and pedos” were actually true, those sites would be the biggest sites in the world, not tiny little bubbles that last 6 months.
That’s the great thing, without servers and global feeds you don’t have to wade through anything.
It’s not my theory, saying “without heavy handed moderation places turn into Nazis” is jot the same as saying “tiny little spaces designed to cater to Nazis turn into nothing but Nazis.” I’m arguing about the former statement, not whatever it is you’re saying here.
Has nothing to do with minority and all to do with toxicity
That’s a big part of why I have abandoned fedi actually, pretty much the while dn network is full of toxicity. I think k it’s an emergent property of the network architecture.
Is Voat still a thing? Let’s check…
Edit: nope. Gone. Good.
I think “#2 represent” is referring to their membership at freespeechextremist, so they are likely looking forward to wallowing in a festering cesspool of hatred.
Nah I leave that shit to the guys at the #1 spot on the list lol. I just say what I want. I’m actually not into being angry and hateful, but I’m also not into being told what I can and cannot say.
What are you being told you cannot say that you want to say?
It’s not about what I want to say lol typical. Take a conversation about principle and imply that I want to shout slurs.
You don’t have the right to dictate to me what I can say out loud, period.
Who implied you want to shout slurs? I’m asking about the principle. What are you wanting to say that other instances are stopping you from saying? What is anyone even dictating that you cannot say out loud?
“On principle what specific words do you want to say” lol yeah OK. You need to go understand what “principle” means, by definition it ignores specific circumstances.
When what I can say is subject to someone else’s dictat, de facto they have power over me. The interesting thing about that is that the kind of people that seek that out aren’t the kind of people who wield it wisely or fairly. I avoid giving others power over me, I can’t always prevent it, but I avoid it where I can. That’s the principle we are talking about, whether I want to give someone that power, not whether I agree with them on what words should be said. And that’s what this whole speech shit is about, not words, it’s about power. Generally I would agree with those people on what words should not be said, what I don’t agree with is giving them the power to tell me or other people that we can’t say them. I used to do the compromise thing, but those people inevitably overreach and begin to try to control what ideas are allowed to be discussed, because again, it’s about power and they’re power hungry subhuman scum who just want to dominate others.
No matter where you go on fedi, it’s one type of toxic or another. Either it’s people shouting the n word, or it’s people sharing drawings (at best) of little kids, or it’s power hungry subhuman scum who just want to dominate others. It’s an architectural problem endemic to the federated network architecture. So I prefer an architecture with less discoverability but which gives the user the power to censor their own feed how they see fit. There’s no real reach on either, but at least people can have their echo chambers and nobody can lean on the architecture to silence the people they don’t like.
I’ve never felt like I can’t say whatever I want on SJW
As long as the pedo shit is blocked i dont see why u would want to defederate instead of letting each user block what they want. We need a user level federated blocklist.
At least on Lemmy, defederating is also a way of banning all the instance’s users from your communities. If you’re constantly banning one instance’s users and their admins seem fine with it, there’s really no other way.
I wish I, an individual account, could defederate from instances, like some way to block all those instances’ users.
the lemmy devs added per user instance blocks a while ago. Check your settings page
IIRC that only blocks posts though, not comments :/
I’m pretty sure it doesn’t block the users; I blocked the NSFW Lemmy, whatever the big one is, because of how much porn would be on the All feed otherwise. I was surprised to see a post or comment from someone whose account was on that instance a few weeks ago, but it wasn’t anything I didn’t want to see so overall I was glad the users are still able to participate elsewhere if that’s what they want.
Sort of. It does block the users, but only on your specific instance. If you’re interacting with a post on another instance and that instance is federated with them, you’ll still see them on that third instance.
Defederating basically takes the three instances from a closed triangle ◺ (where all users can see and post on all three instances) to an open triangle ∟ (where your instance and the defederated instance are blocked from each other, but the third instance can still see and interact with both.)
Very interesting, thank you for the explanation.
Edit: is that just for defederation or also when I block an instance on my account?
That’s only for defederating. Blocking is local, and basically just hides the instance from your feed.
I don’t think that blocks the users, just the posts? Or does it block users also?
If you want to see far-right content and spam, join a far-right server or run your own, rather than trying to shame server owners into doing what you want.
Admins are entitled to decide what they platform and what they don’t. On top of that, the user experience of “just block 100 servers of Nazis and incels to get to the content you want to see” is complete dogshit.
This “it should all be user level” is just apologist bullshit.
It’s funny seeing how being able to see and discuss these decisions being the advantage of lemmy and admins and then seeing someone talking about defederation policies being “shaming” lmao. A bit dramatic
Did anybody say admins aren’t entitled to block stuff? User just wanted a system to see everything and block what they didn’t want.
Fuck off with this aggressive bad-faith shit.
Did anybody say admins aren’t entitled to block stuff?
I mean, it’s a user complaining about defederation from known nazi instances. It gives off some big “free speech absolutist (as long as the free speech is hate speech)” vibes.
User just wanted a system to see everything and block what they didn’t want.
That system already exists. You can spin up your own instance in like 15 minutes, and have access to the entire unfiltered fediverse. But nobody wants to do that, because nobody actually wants to see the unfiltered fediverse. That shit is basically rawdogging the internet, because it’s full of extremists and pedophiles.
There is only one side who benefits from the “everything unfiltered by default, the user has to individually wade through mountains of slurs, hate, doxxing, and child porn to manually block all of them” option. And it isn’t the user. The only side that benefits is the side that now gets to peddle their BS to a wider audience.
If you genuinely want the fediverse to improve and grow, advocating for unfiltering isn’t the way. That shit will scare off any curious new users faster than any kind of reasonable filtering would. Imagine you make a new account, and your first interactions are blocking a thousand individual instances just so you don’t end up on a federal watch list.
Did anybody say admins aren’t entitled to block stuff
His “defederation bad (except pedos)” isn’t exactly wet with support for blocking instances for spam and extremism.
User just wanted a system to see everything and block what they didn’t want.
That system exists. It’s the “run your own server” that I explicitly mentioned. But let’s be honest, he doesn’t want that system (which again, he already has) for himself, he wants it for everyone else.
It’s the same bullshit that “free speech absolutists” push in every single thread about defederation – admins should be hands off and users should dig through through slurs, racism, homophobia looking for content worth engaging with.
It benefits exactly one group of people but apparently doesn’t set off your “bad-faith” radar.
Because in order to block content, the user first has to see it. If I were an instance admin, I wouldn’t force my users to see any amount of N words and homophobic slurs, not even the once it takes to block it.
Hence tge need for a federated blocklist.
With a blocklist, the user is putting their trust in an unnamed group of people with essentially no accountability. With defederation, the user puts their trust in admins they can talk to, with a public modlog to explain every decision. You’re proposing to take the same amount of control away from users, but with less accountability.
You can have the federated blocklist people named, decisions for adding to list public and explained. That way it would be the same as with admins
All that work just to make it the same as what we already have
I don’t think you got the idea of a federated blocklist the other person was talking about
They are both essentially the same thing except u decided to call one group of unnamed people Admins and suddenly they have responsibility and authority.
The difference, and the best part of the fediverse imho, is that if you’re not happy with someone elses rules you can become your own admin and set your own rules. The more we centralize power the further we go against that idea.
Nah
Run your own instance then
That would be a seriously cool route to take
Looked at the list and did a bit of searching as well as checking the reasons they were defederated. Looks like the top one is basically a trolling group akin to GNAA or some of the proto 4chan or SomethingAwful shit for those who remember back that far.
I can understand why overt trolling and possibly illegal content would be defederated.
That said I would like to see more diverse opinions and sources on my Lemmy feed though. There has to be a base somewhere that isn’t literal nazis but isn’t open socialists either.
That said I would like to see more diverse opinions and sources on my Lemmy feed though. There has to be a base somewhere that isn’t literal nazis but isn’t open socialists either.
Please, this. Lemmy is boring as all hell. 95%+ of users have the same opinions. It’s a giant echo chamber.
You’re free to sub to whatever instances you want. You seem to be complaining about your own inaction.
I do sub to whatever instances I want. And sometimes I go to All. It’s called an observation. It’s ok when people say things you disagree with.
I didn’t disagree with anything.
I disagree.
Anything illegal posted on a remote server will bring legal trouble to you as a server admin the moment it federates onto your instance. Therefore I completely understand them defederating from instances with a high risk of illegal activity.
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What…?
Selective federation is a benefit. It’s by design. It’s helpful in precisely these circumstances. And as it’s open source, the users of the service can use the feature how they want. It’s entirely reasonable that instance admins use the feature as intended to protect against regional legal liability. What you’re doing is like using a canoe, and then complaining that there’s too much water in these here parts.
Right, brainfart, sorry.
Trumpislovetrumpislife, that has to be satire, right?
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Wait what
Edit: I don’t want to know
Removed by mod
Wait till you visit nazi.social
“Any community that gets its kicks pretending to be idiots, will eventually be overtaken by actual idiots who believe they are in good company.”
Is this your overview? If so maybe you could decode some of the punycode in the domains
I see one up there, срёт[.]онлайн, “shit dot online”
Weird, nr 86 doesn’t seem to be decoded.
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It doesn’t seem like a particularly social activity
I zoom in and this is the FIRST thing I see. What in the god damned shit?
Didn’t see that one. The one that caught my eye and made me double take was
rapefemenists.social
Jesus Christ.
IKR? Couldn’t they have run it through a spellchecker before registering the domain?
The domain is spelled right, it’s the lemmy guy who wrote it wrong
And it’s above Threads.net. Talk about priorities lol
Yeah, there are more further down in the list too. I was honestly shocked to see how many blatant pedo instances there were.
Makes me wonder about all the times that instances like lemmy.world got brigaded by child porn posters. Was it people against the fediverse, or just shit leaking in from the blatant pedo instances?
The only things I know about Kiwifarms is that it was a federated instance and that Cloudflare got flak for not taking them down sooner.
lol. I’m pawoo user
describe pawoo to me
Decided to check it out to figure out what was going on. There’s ‘anime women look young’ and then there’s straight up lolicon. DO NOT the pawoo
Edit : There were also like celebrity deepfakes, but that really feels like an afterthought
ok
Sinful
THREADS IS 39 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳📟📟📟📟📟📟📟📟📟
Needs to be much higher…
Should be first
Above “pedo.school”? Seriously?
Why? It’s just fearmongering and would damage the fediverse
Taking down a threat to free and open fediverse is the opposite of damage to fediverse.
XMPP
The difference is nobody used XMPP before and after Google integrated it. People are using the fediverse. I don’t think people already using the fediverse will ever migrate to threads. If anything, people may realise that they can talk to threads people and leave Meta’s system. Even the BBC and the European Union have their own instances. I cannot see them migrating to Threads whenever Meta messing with politics is a known issue
The BBC actually does have a presence on Threads, but they gave up on it like everyone else did, I believe.
Would be best if they just stick to social.bbc
Has Threads already implemented activityPub or is it work in progress?
They federate with mastodon.social
WIP. You can see threads posts from other instances but threads cannot see other instances IIRC
I disagree.
We know what META is about and what they do. We came here because we didn’t want to be treated as products and used as experiments constantly watched by “AI algorithm”.
The smartest thing anybody ever said to me is, “don’t let a pimp have access to the battered woman’s shelter.”
Almost all of us are here because we have either always thought that, or grew to think that.
THREADS
Threads is actually #7 on this ranking: https://fed.dembased.xyz/weighted
Meaning it is widely defederated, including by instances that have shorter block lists.
Anyway, that whole list is ugly.
Some of those instance names are, uh, interesting.
I’m genuinely disappointed that Asbestos Cafe is basically forbidden now. That’d be a solid name for a hardcore alcoholic vegan bar.
I feel like I might be put on a FBI list for reading this.
I was curious what freak.university was but it just leads to a 404 :/
Based on some of these other site names, you probably don’t actually want to know
Mm, true yeah
Jfc right? What possessed someone to make some of those?
What is varishangout…net? Initially read it as yarishangout.net and wondered why a space for Toyota Yaris owners got defedded. Also wondering how stereophonic.space got defedded?
Probably unmodded and open to automated signups leading to troll and bot infestations.
