good job feeding the trolls OP and everyone @ing them. definitely won’t make them feel vindicated in their presence here. definitely not 🙄
Even without any karma system, interacting with the users here is a breath of fresh air. Lemmy has the least shills and bots compared to the poison in most other platforms. It’s currently Lemmy’s best asset and where it stands out from all existing social media imo, and I hope it remains this way.
They’re certainly easier to avoid.
Lemmy has the least shills and bots
Because it’s not popular yet. Wait until it becomes so and the inevitable enshittification happens.
Enshittification isn’t what happens when something becomes popular, it’s what happens to disruptive tech and commodities that get increasingly fine-tuned for profit after competition inevitably floods in. It’s a product of monetization.
Lemmy is FOSS so that won’t happen, plus you can splinter off into your own walled garden instance like Beehaw if you want.
Enshittification also happens because of government propaganda, like the authoritarian propaganda Lemmy.ml spreads for the CCP.
Aee you suggesting people on Lemmy.ml are paid by the Chinese government to spread propagands?
Some of them yes, absolutely.
I think, they are only paid indirectly in that the money are spent on propaganda to make them act like this
Do you have any source for that? I would be curious to see.
Let me ask friend in the CCP to send some of their files over for you to look at, it’s all very open and well documented.
That’s a single instance, they can be blocked and avoided. The FOSS community is way more resiliant to enshittification.
Not really, their users make alts everywhere else too. It’s also quite easy just to keep setting up new instances too.
Deal with them just like regular trolls. You shouldn’t be like the Muskrat cultists who think content moderation is useless and thus should be given up on. I understand, I suffered from activism burnout on the regular (one was right in the middle of an election campaign), but one should not give up easily.
That’s not at all what I am saying. I am saying it’s easier to do moderation on more centralised platforms like Reddit, because moderators simply have more power and more tools there. The flip side of that being that it makes it easier for moderators and admins to abuse and ban people without recourse. I am not saying moderation is pointless at all, just that it’s easier with one platform than the other. There are pros and cons to both models.
I would argue being open source and decentralised are major advantages of Lemmy and are more than sufficient to justify its existence. Just that it also isn’t perfect either. There are always trade-offs to be made when designing a platform, and that’s something you should always bear in mind.
You make it sound like monetization can’t happen on a FOSS platform. Bots are a form of monetization, it’s just not by the people who created and control the platform.
As it gets popular, bots will come for the purpose of creating an audience and monetizing them.
That’s true, but it’s just not enshittification because it’s not done by the platform itself. It’s a different word.
Hmmm interesting. I was under the impression that enshitification was “making something shittier in the pursuit of (eg) greed”, I didn’t realize that it only applies to when the creator (controller? owner?) of the thing does it.
Has it always been used for this specific case? If so, what is the word for the more general case I described?
It sounds like a really specific definition, but you’d be surprised by how often it applies. He originally thought of it to apply to Tik Tok after noticing it following a similar pattern as Facebook, Amazon, and I think Google. Then the internet realized it could keep applying his term to so many more companies, like Spotify, Uber, Lyft, Airbnb, Reddit, Microsoft, Apple, all streaming companies, and even physical product companies like car companies or John Deere, etc and it’s shot up in popularity and use since then.
Not sure of the general use case you describe, but the person who invented the term in that article I linked sounds like he doesn’t mind if it’s used in a more general case for things getting worse from greed, so feel free to go ahead and keep using it I guess lol. Although maybe we should come up with a different, more general term for that if there isn’t already one? I’ve got nothing, but if anyone has suggestions lol.
Ey used the wrong word, but this in fact is correct. Once lemmy gets popular, bot farms will definitely will siege it, and the amount of “bots and shills” will rise
Maybe “dickheadification” instead?
Hard disagree. I’m already spending less time here because the Kremlin and CCP propaganda ruins the experience for me. I don’t even consider recommending it to people I know for the same reason.
Eh just block the tankie instances. That problem goes away quickly!
Just because I’m not seeing these comments and posts doesn’t mean other people aren’t. And if they’re seeing it, then they’ll get seduced by the evil tankie mind-control rays. That means I’ve got to start blocking them, too.
Pretty soon, I’ll be in this shrinking walled garden of fewer and fewer people who say things I approve of. And then what?! I might begin to question my own self-righteousness or engage in some degree of critical reflection of views. That’ll be it. They’ll have gotten to me, too!
The whole Lemmy.world community needs to be severed from any instance of heresy. Otherwise, my personal views might be put at risk.
Wow, for some reason tho you tankies are on the margins of society. You have to hide in some small holes like rats because no one takes you seriously or bans you.
And yet you claim that we are the ones hiding and protecting our fragile views…
No. We just want to skip the second hand embarrassment when we see your content.
You say on a platform developed by “tankies”
you tankies are on the margins of society
It’s funny to see a police officer in an MRAP drive down my street, while a guy on the internet insists my problem is that I’m too much of a militant.
we are the ones hiding and protecting our fragile views…
Why else invoke admins and mods to protect you?
We just want to skip the second hand embarrassment
If you’re feeling shame because you hear someone assert that genocide is bad, that’s not second-hand. That’s your conscience screaming at you.
Keep coping but you are incredibly small minority and any sane person just laughs at you so you hide in some niche web communities like hexbear and yet you are still defederated from en masse
There’s a sign there ‚hidden’ to reevaluate your life. If there’s smell everywhere you go…
Have you ever considered that maybe… you are wrong? That maybe your idols Marx and Lenin weren’t such visionary geniuses?
Uphold Lemmy.world Thought
You can block Instances that like those, or switch to and instance where the admins do it on an instance level.
I still see their comments all the time and they still upvote their propaganda on other instances.
Joining an instance that has defederated from them should alleviate that problem.
You forgot that lemmy.ml, lemmygrad, & hexbear exist.
Hexbear is… I’m just old I guess, I don’t understand. My instance is not defederated from them. Whenever I’m reading a post that originates from hexbear, I can always tell. Like it will just hit me and I will look at the source and yep, it’s hexbear.
But I don’t exactly understand why. I can’t see that they have any particular worldview, they just have a unique (and contrarian) way of expressing… all worldviews, seemingly. It feels like an inside joke that I don’t have enough information about to understand.
Doesn’t seem like bots, Russian or otherwise. Too vague. Not enough of a directed agenda. Is it just trolls? They seem to earnest to be trolls.
Their community came over here long before all us old Redditors and it seems like they’ve cultivated their own culture and in-jokes and such. It can get confusing to pierce all the irony and sarcasm to figure out what they’re saying sometimes.
https://en.prolewiki.org/wiki/Hexbear
They’re basically trans communist genocide deniers, they’ve run troll ops which is way they’ve been mass de-federated.
See https://lemmy.world/post/2498330This article makes me think this is a tankie wiki, because literally everyone from that awful place is a tankie as far as I can tell.
It is a tankie wiki, but what a better way to expose their tankie nature than the tankies themself.
They’re kids that like confrontation. They don’t actually have any agenda other than “this hexbear user said to follow this!” And they jump on it. The next day could be a completely different stance on the subject.
They’ve chosen a very confrontational path with the way their instance interacts with others, and as a result they get a lot of push back, which just makes them angrier. I suspect anyone trying to be reasonable on the instance gets accused of not being a true believer as well, so only the angriest remain.
Also, Boost for Lemmy allows you to block an entire instance, it’s pretty handy.
Very good +1000 social credit, OP
Huh
What?
Exactly. Some random snide implication of Chinese support, no specifics though
Lemmygrad, Hexbear, & Lemmy.ml.
I think he is making a joke that OP is, in fact, the bot
Or maybe he’s just bullying OP for circlejerking so hard and giving himself a pat on the back as a Lemmy user
SMCF is one of the comfort usernames that I’ve seen around ever since joining Lemmy
Same tbh, the name always gives me a smirk lol
Yes yes it does… shart … fucker… 420, oh! shark! Misread it.
Comfort =/= super disgusting and weird on purpose
You tell’em, Best Friend.
I’ll start posting more content in a few days. I’ve been traveling and working a lot. But I’ve also been playing project zomboid on single player so we’ll see if I follow through with my promise.
Make memes based off the game please
May I enter the chat?
No.
Sorry, the cheese has spoken.
Which one is the bot and which is the troll?
I’m the bot, obviously.
The rarity of trolls is nice. The near absence of advertising accounts is immeasurably gratifying. Valuing both privacy and Linux is…
@SatansMaggotyCumFart@lemmy.world is a fucking sage, fight me.
No, he’s a copulating thyme! fights
If it doesn’t hurt anyone else why do you care? Swings haymaker
I actually don’t, I just wanted to join in turns on bread maker
Wait we’re making break? I thought you wanted a fight?
Bread makes from excellent sustenance and nonlethal thrown weapons 😉
nonlethal?! 🥱
We can’t all be Americans who bring a shotgun to a fistfight 😛😁
Still a disgusting username.
It’s been a long while now, that I’ve been actively reading usernames to try to find one that’s nastier, still have not.
Well except for the entire population of Hexbear and the 'Grad…
It’s super neat being in a different federation group than other posters, I have no idea what the bad places are like
.world is a Liberal cesspool
World and Hexbear are both liberal cesspits. One is full of conservatives who think they’re centrists, and one is full of conservatives who think they’re communists.
True leftism is when you reject reality, and anyone that doesn’t subscribe to your extremely niche, extremely online ideology is either a conservative or a centrist. Everyone who disagrees with you, whether on the basis of theory or history or material conditions or lived experience, is just too morally impure to achieve the same level of leftism as you, you are the One True Leftist, and you’re not going to let little things like what things exist or are possible get in the way of that.
Wow, a fellow soulist. You’re being a bit too evangelical, though. We actually have a discord server with over 70 members! https://discord.gg/nfbVVyXK. And if you don’t like that one, there are two newer servers run by different mod teams. https://discord.com/invite/w7tvaR6s. https://discord.gg/5THVKZrk. Also, many soulists come from diverse walks of life and have more lived experience of realist oppression than nearly anyone. For example, I have schizotypal personality disorder, so my experience of reality is neurodivergent to begin with. There are many otherkin and plural systems within the community. Even material conditions, which are fake and socially constructed, can radicalise someone towards soulism. Over half of soulists are transgender. Obviously, soulism is more attractive to any trans person than realism, because it offers faster and more complete transition than any realist ideology.
I am not a soulist. In fact, I consider it to be an extremely dangerous ideology. If you’re successful in undermining consensus reality, we’re going to have dragons and vampires running around terrorizing people. The moment reality becomes mutable enough for someone to turn themselves into something with mind control powers, like a mind flayer, we’re all fucked.
I am trans and neurodivergent, and I take offense at this statement:
Obviously, soulism is more attractive to any trans person than realism, because it offers faster and more complete transition than any realist ideology.
Trans identities are not a rejection of reality. I don’t find your ideology appealing in the slightest. I believe in objective science, and the science is 100% on the side of trans people.
Of course the science is in support of trans people. Realism is anti-science. The scientific method points us inexorably towards antirealism. Soulists oppose the manufactured, false consensus reality which denies trans lives experiences. Because we’re awesome. Mainstream movements say pre-transition trans women are female on the inside, but soulists say the outside body is a mental construct, and cannot be taken as fact in any sense.
Realism is anti-science.
Absolute nonsense.
but soulists say the outside body is a mental construct, and cannot be taken as fact in any sense.
Of course the body exists, in the same way that anything exists. It is an objective fact, and denying that doesn’t help anyone.
Why do you think Hexbear are not Communists?
They don’t want to have a communist revolution. They want to have a socialist revolution and then wait for the state to implement communism on its own. A true communist would act to bring about communism.
Have you by any chance read The Communist Manifesto or Critique of the Gotha Programme? Both are very short reads, and give some level of idea of what Marx is directly advocating for, as opposed to his general critique of Capitalism or his philosophical work on Dialectical Materialism. Marx was no Anarchist, he advocated for building Communism over time. This didn’t mean “waiting for the state to one day turn on the Communism switch,” that ignores his entire philosophy of Historical Materialism, whereby societal contradictions are worked out over time, as nothing is inherently static and everything is in motion.
None of this requires any of Lenin’s work to be read at all.
If you’re saying that a “True Communist” would somehow magically create Communism directly via revolution and not over time, then Marx was not a “True Communist.” At this point, you’re deeply silly, and simply redefining Anarchism as “True Communism” to win a game of semantics and label all non-Anarchists as conservatives.
Dialectical materialism is a misnomer. I’ll give you an example. Suppose Alice’s boss pays her one dollar an hour, while Bob’s boss pays him a thousand dollars an hour. A dollar is not a material object. It’s a social construct. These quantities are, material, simply numbers in a bank account. Less than that, because numbers are social constructs too. Materially, these are magnetised bits on a hard drive. There is no material sense in which Bob earns more than Alice. The fact that Bob earns a thousand times as much is purely social, not material. Yet, as a result of the exchange of social constructs, Alice lives in a slum and cannot afford medical care for the tumor that will kill her in a year’s time, and she is driven by necessity towards revolution. While Bob lives a life of privilege in a mcmansion with three healthy kids from three different ex-wives, and Bob is incentivised to maintain the status quo and oppose revolution.
If the dialectical philosophy of marxists were aptly named, it would be called dialectical determinism. Alice and Bob’s lives are governed by cause and effect, not by materials. They are governed by the cause and effect of social constructs. We can say that materially, Bob is more wealthy because he has a mansion, but why does he have a mansion when Alice does not? Because of a social construct. Not a material. It is wrong to say Alice’s desire for revolution is driven by materials. It is in fact driven by cause and effect, which is much more universal than mere matter.
Being a soulist does not make me the enemy of dialectical determinists, which is to say Marxists. But it does make me the enemy of realists, who misunderstand the lessons to be learned from Marx’s writing and fixate upon the physical to the exclusion of truth.
Oh, it appears I was wrong. You reject all of Marxism, including his critique of Capitalism via rejection of the Labor Theory of Value. Money is a representation of Exchange-Value, it doesn’t simply exist in our minds. Recognizing income differences is not an anti-Materialist take, pretending these happen for no reason is a rejection of attempting to understand Capitalism itself, and reality.
This is Idealism at its peak, and is a complete misunderstanding of what Materialists mean when referencing Social Relations. If you genuinely want to understand Dialectical Materialism, please read Elementary Principles of Philosophy by Politzer. Materialists understand social relations.
Alice’s drive towards revolution is due to her material conditions, which are caused by the material reality of Capitalism.
You are an enemy of Marxism and Marxists because you reject all 3 pillars of Marxism: Critique of Capitalism via the Labor Theory of Value, advocacy for Socialism as a way to build towards Communism, and Dialectical and Historical Materialism. Pretending to be the “One True Communist” while completely disavowing history’s most important Communist in every major manor is just anticommunism.
This is the worst thing that I have ever read, so bad that it made me make an account just to tell you how wrong you are.
First of all, if you even, for a second, thought about what you were saying this immediately crumbles. You dedicate a significant portion to talking about the material differences in the lives of those individuals, the property they own, the health care they can access, but then proceed to deny that it is the material conditions, that you have just laid out, that drive people towards certain ideas! You utterly contradict yourself.
Secondly, you just completely ignore how reality works and draw an arbitrary start line where everything just begins in a highly developed manner. The workers are not preordained to be workers, the bourgeoisie are not preordained to be such either. The people in your thought experiment would be in such a position due to a very very very very long history of subjective action arising from objective material conditions and social relationships (those relationships also arising from material conditions). So, dialectical materialism is very aptly named!
Thirdly, you have no idea what dialectical means and it is agonisingly obvious. A dialectic is the relationship between the opposite aspects inherent within a thing. So, with any morsel of philosophical thought it is readily apparent that “dialectical determinism” is an oxymoron. And I know you lack that said morsel of philosophical thought, so I’m going to explain it to you. The dialectic in question is the subject-object relationship, otherwise known as historical materialism: so if you remove subjectivity (which is a necessary consequence of a deterministic world view) you are debasing the subject to a mere object; and if there is no subject, there’s no subject-object relationship and thus no dialectic.
To wrap things up, stop trying to talk about things you’re beyond clueless about!
“a plague on both your houses” rofl
Look, you haven’t sold me on the idea, but I’m going to upvote you because, if nothing else, this is an original take.
This just pretends democratic socialism doesn’t exist. Like there’s nothing between liberal and ML communist.
So, you are saying that if someone wants the same end goal as you, but has a differing opinion on how we accomplish that, you insult them. I’m sure you change a lot of minds and make a lot of friends with your method.
There is nothing between liberal and ML “communist”. They’re the same. Democratic socialism is to the left of both of those, and anarchist ideologies such as anarcho-communism, syndicalism, and mutualism are to the left of that. See, demsocs may not be the biggest fans of Marx, but they adhere far more closely to his ideas than Stalinists do.
I see now. Intriguing take you have. It’s different than the way everybody else classifies things, but I guess I can see where you are coming from. In my opinion, ML theory is pretty left leaning when it comes to economics and the end goal of it, but the authoritarian plan for transitioning to it does not align with most other leftist virtues and ideas.
ha!
Why’s that? Got a problem with the left?
On what planet are liberals “the left?”
Liberals Left, Republicans Right, is the dichotomy of the US at least.
Overton Window, maybe, but that’s not a particularly useful categorization. Parties repredent relatively fixed views, not directions.
In the US it’s a spectrum combining party policy and Overton Window. As you move left, you go deeper and deeper into increasingly extreme thoughts on policy regarding what we consider classic liberal topics such as social justice, corporate power, various societal and economic reforms, etc till it hits an extreme that’s considered radical to the average, the same goes for the right and classic conservative views.
Hugging the middle/mixed gray zone are the Centrist.
I think you’re a bit confused on terms.
Social Justice isn’t really a “Liberal” topic. It’s a topic many US Liberals generally are progressive on, but that doesn’t make it “Liberal.” Liberalism is also not about reforming the economy but maintaining “healthy” Capitalism.
Liberal views are therefore views in line with Liberalism itself, and Liberal Parties like the DNC represent Liberalism and movements towards Liberalism, not movements towards the left.
Social Democracy, ie what Scandinavian Countries have, would be centrist.
US liberals and US conservatives both share the core ideals of Liberalism, including the right to private property
They differ only in where they think individual liberty ends.
The world of a hundred years ago. Where I live, the liberal parties mostly want to create more freedom for companies to fuck people over.
Yep, pretty much. Liberalism serves the interests of Capital over people.
Robespierre Did Nothing Wrong
USA
Liberal in the US means progressive. It’s a term referring to social issues, not economic ones.
Liberal in the USA means Liberal economically, it’s just that economic Liberalism is more progressive than the alternstive, far-right populism.
Liberal in the USA means Liberal economically
No, it absolutely does not. You are lying.
Yes it does. The Liberals in the US support Liberalism. Calling someone a Liberal means they support Liberalism in the US.
And large parts of .ml, which is the bridge for hexbear to all the instances which defederated with them.
It really does feel like hexbear users are probably high fiving each other over their cubicle walls in Vladivostok. The admin openly states their goal is information warfare.
I’m convinced those people have to be elaborate trolls. Like the flat earthers.
globe supremecists
nah - they are very real. Maybe sock puppets but real. I imagine them like rich 15 year old kids beeing “rad and cool”
Idk ozma was pushing a super hard the left should protest vote or not vote before getting called out in every thread. They have been slowly evolving the shill to be less and less obvious. Even started posting memes and other content to try and get the political agenda across without posting negative articles. Now the message isnt the very obvous up front don’t vote, but they are just “critical of Biden,” yet have nothing to say about anyone else. Doesn’t seem like an edgy kid to me.
Removed by mod
Weird how I didn’t say either of those things. Also pretty hypocritical to not like what I said, put words in my mouth, and then call me Blue MAGA. Really helps your point.
Removed by mod
Love how you quickly diverted from the hypocrisy of putting words in my mouth and then do the exact thing you seem to be crying about of labeling me Blue MAGA because I said something you didn’t like. In the US we have a FPTP voting system. We do not have a luxury of choosing the best candidate, but the lesser of 2 evils. So pretending that protesting voting or not voting is standing for a cause is a joke and disingenuous. All it does is help the opposition party. You can be critical all you want but don’t pretend to be liberal when you know a protest vote or not vote helps the other party. The message was very clear they didn’t want people to vote. Now they are trying to be more subtle about it. But sure lets be a 1 issue voter and pretend a Trump presidency would be better for the social issues everyone crying Blue MAGA seems to care so much about.
literal russian propaganda slogan
Removed by mod
“Blue MAGA” isn’t right or left, it’s just very stupid, very obvious, propaganda
There are still clowns who think that if they say “Blue MAGA” enough people will believe it’s real? Checks the username, oh, of course, it’s one of the regulars lol.
Tag them “shill” so you can save yourself some effort in the future
Linkerbaan is similar but hasn’t evolved yet. Still an obvious shill.
Hey, I’m here! I said vote for whoever you want or don’t vote, that’s democracy.
I’ve said over and over I’m a gay guy living in the Los Angeles area and far left. I keep sounding the alarm Biden will lose to Trump but nobody wants to listen to me.
And then, the debate tonight everyone is surprised Pikachu face now.
Let it be said.
They’re paid/programmed to do what they do.
Source?
I’m fairly sure they aren’t bots, but definitely pro Russia.
bots, sockpuppets, infowarfare it’s all different vlads in the same bag
Last I checked hexbear had something like 70% more total comments than lemmy.world despite only having a tiny fraction of the users. Sounds like bots to me
Plus whenever somebody talks ill about the CCP over there they get barraged by copypasta responses. Their posts mirror popular posts on other servers, and generally lack any form of real discussion. The place looks like the bottiest of all instances and nothing can change my mind.
Hexbear has had an established and more active community for a longer time than Lemmy.world. You can visit Hexbear yourself and check, it’s not illegal or anything.
Over time Lemmy.world may overtake Hexbear, but not for a while.
I have imagined that ever since the Reddit emigration hype ended and things settled down a bit here that the vast majority of world and shit users are mostly lurkers and not terribly vocal, as is the case on a lot of other platforms.
Yep, I agree, same goes for Lemm.ee and other “generalist” instances. Those attracted the most people from Reddit as they required the least knowledge before-hand of Lemmy and aimed at replicating Reddit in some ways.
More niche communities tend to be more active per user if they are well established, with Hexbear as a prime example.
Well Hexbear also had a policy of not showing down votes to encourage users to respond if they disagree instead of just down voting and moving on.
That’s very ironic given that they ban anyone further left than “Capitalist Russia is the best country in the world! Let’s support their invasion of Ukraine for no reason! Ughur genocide fake by the way! Is not so bad that Stalin banned being gay.”
It’s not that they don’t show downvoted only, you literally cannot downvote on Hexbear.
Skill issue.
A lot of troll accounts are semi-automated. They run a script that detects certain keywords, and posts premade replies to them (nowadays said premade replies are being finetuned with generative AI to look less uniform), also a human is watching over them to ensure both correct operation and to overtake in case of emergency.
Source: My father’s ex-girlfriend’s ex-boyfriend was (is) a paid online troll for Fidesz. They also had Discord (later Matrix if I recall) servers for organizing mass reports, downvotes, angry/haha react campaigns, often they also did some “private doxxing”.
Seems like a rock solid source making claims that are definitely falsifiable.
Vs you from lemmy.ml who’s just here to spread lies.
Y’all only know how to engage through ad hominem, huh.
Well, it’s a first-hand account
you sent me an excerpt from a simpsons episode…
Yes, to make a point about the reliability of hearsay.
Another social media claims it’s the better than everything else while it’s clearly not for the nth time. Why am I not surprised
Have we forgotten that we also have Margot Robbie?
Are you saying that she’s a bot or a troll?
I’m saying she’s an academy award nominated character actor and producer
I think that she prefers “Academy Award-nominated character actor, and producer Margot Robbie”.
Star of the Barbie movie, now available on Blu Ray at your local retailers!
On the internet, no one knows if you’re A̶u̶s̶t̶r̶a̶l̶i̶a̶n̶ Academy Award winning actress Margot Robbie.
Hey! Hey! I’m over here! Do I need to up my cringe and troll game???
