Obama literally did kill an american 16 year old in yemen, so this is nothing new.
Obama literally did kill an american 16 year old
Not to be purposely irritating by being pedantic, but I think my hyper-literal thinking style is having trouble believing this. I don’t think Obama literally killed a 16 y/o. He may have given an order, approved of it, or placed someone in charge that decided to do it, but I doubt that he personally killed the 16 y/o. Is my understanding of the word “literally” incorrect in this case?
Yes you are correct, he just signed off on it, and allegedly they were trying to kill someone else. I am just pretty skeptical that this wasnt some kind of message from the CIA that they will kill whoever.
And here we unsurprisingly have the fascists lying that this literal right wing coup by the sc is nothing because Obama once did this completely unrelated thing.
But that kid was killed by an attack marked ‘‘to whom it may concern’’, not a focused deliberate attack with his name on it. He was a casualty, not a victim of assassination.
Sure allegedly it was to kill someone else that wasnt him, but it sure seems like they just “by chance” killed the son a couple weeks after the father “on accident”.
But think of it outside of the propaganda; the president was allowed to blow up the wrong person (that happened to be an american minor in a family that had the father killed a couple weeks before) in a country that we are not at war with.
The best part is that whatever illegal thing Biden would do, will be designated as an unofficial act by the SC and whatever Trump will do will be designated as an official act. Kind of genius. I was asking myself before how they would get around the fact that they give Biden the same power that they wanted to give to Trump, but they don’t by leaving themselves a food in the door to decide on each single act themselves.
trump said he could shoot someone in the middle of 5th avenue and not lose any votes. this all seems like it’s going according to plan.
The boys did this last season. Its complete satire but its like holding a mirror to reality at the moment.
Seems like he’s not the only one who can do this now
How is this different than before?
The SCOTUS interpretation is exactly the interpretation I was taught in school back in the 90’s/2000’s.
They stopped pretending.
A president could always order an assassination on anyone’s ass. It is now with even less ✨ consequences ✨.
Wait, are you saying that they actually faced consequences before?
So, the President is legally allowed to just kill anyone, but if anyone is resisting, even just saying “if you kill my uncle’s nephew’s father’s roommate and I will seek revenge”, it’s
18 U.S. Code § 1751 - “Presidential and Presidential staff assassination, kidnapping, and assault,” which covers attempts to kill or inflict harm on the President.
18 U.S. Code § 871 - “Threats against the President and successors to the Presidency,” which criminalizes threats to kill or harm the President.
That’s an Onion article, right?
Right?
No
Maybe social media was not worth it.
Does this mean the President can murder the DC members they don’t like and replace them?
Yes, but
If he went to their homes and strangled them himself? Yes. If he ordered someone to do it. The laws and UCMJ apply to those people so no. There’s this thing people keep forgetting about. The UCMJ isn’t just guidelines. It’s actual rules. And murder is still illegal.
IANAL, but there is the presidential power to pardon. So the president could in theory give an illegal order (as long as it is an official act they have immunity) and promise a presidential pardon once the order is fulfilled (therefore extending immunity to the perpetrator). Meaning the president can entirely circumvent the UCMJ.
And those people would still face state charges because that’s how that works. You can’t get a presidential pardon for state crimes.
Ok yeah fair enough, that sounds reasonable. But to my knowledge the UMCJ is a federal law, not a state law, so how does that line of argument factor in there? You cited that as an example of checks and balances that would prevent people from following illegal orders, but it being a federal law still means the president could circumvent it with the official order plus pardon combo, at least if my understanding of this new supreme court ruling is correct.
Because (just like in NY with Trump, and specific charges) if a crime is committed within a state the state has the right to prosecute regardless of impeachment or federal charges. The UCMJ is technically federal law. But we’re looking at three different aspects of lawful charges for persons who might commit a crime per the Presidents order. The president could absolutely pardon the persons involved. But only at the federal level. There’s nothing stopping the state or states from prosecuting the same individual. It’s not just one set of checks and balances is my point. The department of justice can also bring charges regardless of UCMJ tribunal (Court Material). Which is really where double jeopardy should kick in but doesn’t for service members.
Additionally and most importantly actually, a court martial conviction for murder would result in a dishonorable discharge from the military. That can’t be overturned by a presidential pardon. They would lose their benefits. Medical and so on. Pensions. It’s a cost benefit analysis at that point. They don’t just get to walk away no harm no foul cause presidential pardon.
All good points if true. However I will say that to my limited understanding a crime under a specific law having been pardoned, that same law can then not be used to prosecute this crime anymore. Meaning states would have to find a different (preferably state) law under which the same offence is punishable.
And that is all disregarding other issues like packed courts, republican controlled states, the vagueness of double-jeopardy in this regard, and the general chilling effect a presidential pardon would have on prosecutors to even press charges in the first place.
The loss of benefits is easily circumvented by promising a golden parachute along with the pardon, so I could still see a lot of fanatics doing the crime “for country and freedom” or whatever they tell themselves.
Overall this seems like a potentially dangerous erosion of checks and balances that is easily abused when put in the wrong hands. As the dissenting opinions in the ruling openly state.
I don’t disagree with that in the grand scheme of things. But a presidential pardon can only be accepted under the understanding that the person who receives it is admitting by accepting it that they committed the crime. As such a service member with a dishonorable discharge would not have their benefits re-instated, for instance.
So do it in DC
Can you face state charges for murder if you’re already facing federal charges for the same killing (you crossed state lines)? That sounds like double jeopardy to me.
Yes. You can face state and federal charges separately. Double jeopardy is when they charge for the same crime twice in the same court (state or federal), after you’ve either been convicted or been acquitted.
Specifically they would have to have new evidence in order to charge you a second time in either federal or state court.
If he went to their homes and strangled them himself?
I was actually think of him pulling a Vlad the Impaler and inviting them over for dinner.
The UCMJ isn’t just guidelines. It’s actual rules. And murder is still illegal.
If there’s anything I learned from the Trump years, hell even the Bush II years, is that there are no rules if no one enforces them.
Plenty of people willing to go to jail for 20 years to preserve democracy.
If there were someone would have taken a shot at Trump long before now.
Sure. Even better, if you replace them with ones that will rule this was an error and the president only gets qualified immunity, you’ll still be in the clear because you were acting on what you thought the law was.
The better move is actually remove the SC, replace it with a new one that repeals all Republican changes since 1980.
Allow the president immunity until the end of this term, then make it a death penalty offence to basically do anything Trump or his cronies have done.
After all of MAGAs leaders are in jail or in the ground for the treason they committed RETIRE and hold an election again.
Their plan will be put back decades AND it’ll be in the light of day for everyone to see.
We can’t win forever but we can win for a while longer
If it is an official act, which would mean they would have to assassinate you in their function of being the president. In other words, they couldn’t just kill their neighbors.
They could probably kill them as part of a celebration, I guess. Jk, I hope.
“Trump was a threat to democracy and I took appropriate action”
Literal fascist shit? Yes. Legal? Who knows? By the time they figure it out, biden will be dead from old age.
The president has always been allowed to assassinate you… They’re in charge of the CIA/FBI/NSA/IRS/Other scary 3 letters who assassinate people all the time.
Making presidents immune in official actions is almost required given the sheer number of decisions they have to make and the scrutiny they’re under means they’re sure to break laws sometimes, plus the subjectivity of some laws (eg is making bad decisions and crashing the econony/causing infighting in the military or whatever else treason?) however in unofficial actions they should absolutely not be immune.
I get why you’re getting down voted, but also at the same time Obama did drone strike a US citizen https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Abdulrahman_al-Awlaki
Brb, looking up who the IRS assassinated this year
I wouldn’t if I were you they’re the scariest of the lot
Yeah even the Joker doesn’t fuck with the irs.
Cyberpunk Intensifies.
How long until the President is also the sitting CEO of Raytheon or Blackwater?
We could just go with the cowboy classic Pinkerton as well
Nah, they got bought by Securitas.
JFK would disagree.
In capitalist America, the president shoots you
We are cooked. Completely cooked. American democracy is over and it’s time to prepare for a harsh right wing fascist regime.
…but vote for Biden.
It was too late 12 years ago, this is everything playing out. Everyone acted like the 2020 election was our fight to keep democracy, we had already lost it by then, the conservative plan just hadn’t been completed yet.
I am not saying you should go vote and vote for Biden. I am saying that, we can never, ever elect another Republican again, or we are fucked, I do not see the that happening. If we beat trump in 2024, we may not in 2028, or new trump, whoever the new right wing strong man is may win in 2032.
It’s already over, it’s been over. Our chance to stop this was long before anyone even realized it was a problem.
The problem didn’t start, nor does it end with trump, he is just a convenient strong man to put as the face of the movement
time to prepare for a harsh right wing fascist regime
Wow, that’s a good point, but some people may take it the wrong way and say things like ‘what taco bell are we meeting up at to plan to depose the current massively corrupt Supreme… taco?’ ‘Is surprise attacks on Taco Bell’s military installations a viable objective?’ ‘Would the taco bell ‘fresh crew’ join the efforts to over turn the corporate structure?’ ‘Or should we all just move to Spain and enjoy the authentic taste of a secular society with universal healthcare and tapas as far as the eye can see’?
Congrats everyone, we got the Purge, but remember this is America where hoarding happens. Everyone doesn’t get one day, one person gets 4 years.
Biden has the chance to do a big, big funny here.
He wont even condemn Israel to improve his ratings. At this point it seems that the democrats are trying to get trump elected.
You mean besides the constantly doing that, the aid, and everything else for nearly 2 years lol?
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/3/7/timeline-the-biden-administration-on-gaza-in-its-own-words
Not seeing a condemnation of Israel anywhere in there.
C’mon
He said they need to „tone it down”…
Very assertive of him
What if democracy lost 12 years ago and they just pretended the Dems still existed?
If he relly believes democracy is at stake there is only one course of action left
I used the chistofascist supreme court to destroy the chistofascist supreme court.
Middle of the next debate, right in the forehead. Needs a good walk-off one liner to follow it though, that’s probably the biggest obstacle for him
Knife missile on SCOTUS?
Send in the flying slap-chop.
You mean the slap-chopper?
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But remember, if you do drugs, you go to hell and fucking die
