• AdrianTheFrog@lemmy.world
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    5 months ago

    I use firefox, I mostly like it, but it still doesn’t support chromium style tab groups (no, that one extension is not similar), and its webgpu implementation also doesn’t work on most websites more than a year after Google made their version available by default

    • dinozaur@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      5 months ago

      Not sure if this is “that one extension”, but I use Simple Tab Groups for Workspaces-like functionality, similar to Edge and Vivaldi. I know, it isn’t tab groups, but I use it similarly.

      • Ephera@lemmy.ml
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        5 months ago

        I’m guessing, they’re referring to multi-account container tabs. It’s what the Chrome feature took heavy inspiration from, but of course without the privacy protection aspect.

    • BarbecueCowboy@lemmy.world
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      5 months ago

      I’ve been using Vivalid, they have ‘Workspaces’ (as its Tab Group analog) which is different but in a way that was a pleasant surprise and kind of reminds me of older systems. Imagine working with one tab group at a time and the rest disappear when you’re not on that workspace.

      • AdrianTheFrog@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        Mozilla could definitely be putting their development time into the areas that the browser is actually behind in

  • Zagorath@aussie.zone
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    5 months ago

    How convenient that this happens just a few days after Firefox implements the features that have been blocking me from switching for the last few years.

    Still, I’m curious about other browsers. We know Chrome is killing V2, but what about other Chromium-based browsers? I saw below a comment espousing Brave, but I’d rather use Chrome than Brave because of the gross crypto bs. What about Vivaldi, Opera, and Chredge? Will they keep supporting Manifest V2?

    • Tar_Alcaran@sh.itjust.works
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      5 months ago

      just a few days after Firefox implements the features that have been blocking me from switching for the last few years.

      Which are those?

      • Zagorath@aussie.zone
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        5 months ago

        Multi-window support on iPad is the main one. Less important, though it would have bugged me if they didn’t have it, is sustained Incognito tabs—which apparently they had until a couple of months ago, then removed without explanation, then added back in just 1 day ago, also without explanation. Found a thread on their forums with a whole bunch of people perplexed and asking what happened.

        • Mushroomm@sh.itjust.works
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          5 months ago

          Your first point at least is an iPad thing. Nothing is fully featured on the iPad. Not even safari. It’s thanks to that exact fact that chrome is at least mostly fully featured on the iPad. If safari had comparable function, you could bank on them blocking those features from the chrome app too. There’s a deal made somewhere. I wouldn’t be surprised if cash flow from Google is why safari is still the same piece of crap it always has been. “Hey your R&D + return for safari only nets you 1% YOY. We’ll give you 2% YOY if you just don’t even bother.”

          They only know raising prices and knee-jerk reactions to competitive moves in their market space. Additional functionality for the user is only granted when it’s being used as a cudgle against their competition. Never for users benefit.

          If you’re seeing new functionality on the iPad Firefox app, it’s likely because Firefox figured out a way to implement it without paying apple because they want the user to have that function. Totally different ethos.

          • Zagorath@aussie.zone
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            5 months ago

            If you’re seeing new functionality on the iPad Firefox app, it’s likely because Firefox figured out a way to implement it without paying apple because they want the user to have that function

            Nothing at all remotely like that. They just don’t have enough developers to have implemented it sooner. It’s an API that Apple introduced in 2019, that Google implemented within months, Microsoft implemented within a couple of years, and Mozilla finally implemented this July.

          • ivn@jlai.lu
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            5 months ago

            Regulations, like the Digital Market Act, are also a big factor.

        • ivn@jlai.lu
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          5 months ago

          There are actually no alternative browser on iOS. Before the European Digital Market Act all iOS browser have to use webkit, so while you could install Firefox, Chrome and others, they were actually using Safari’s rendering engine. I believe that’s where a lot of the limitations come from. Now with the DMA Firefox could use it’s own rendering engine but this hasn’t landed yet. I don’t know if any other browser has switched from webkit yet.

          • Zagorath@aussie.zone
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            5 months ago

            There are actually no alternative browser on iOS

            Sort of. As you say, it’s more accurate to say that they’re forced to use Safari’s rendering, but everything else is up to them, the same as how any other app would be developed. That’s how they get their own features like bookmark syncing etc.

            Being able to have multiple windows of the same app is a feature Apple introduced in 2019, and obviously Safari supported it immediately. Google Chrome added support for multiple windows after a few months. I switched to Microsoft Edge once they added support for it about a year, maybe 18 months later, and have just been waiting for Firefox to finally support it so I can switch to that.

            Incidentally, 2019 is also the year Firefox finally added support on their desktop browser for a CSS property (column-span) that a site I used to frequent required to work. Though by that time I no longer used that particular site.

    • Ascend910@lemmy.ml
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      5 months ago

      I moved from vivaldi to it. Move the the side bar to the left and it felt just like home

      • CafecitoHippo@lemm.ee
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        5 months ago

        The biggest pro for me is the vertical tabs. It’s got the same vertical tabs that Edge has which are great. I only use Edge at work but it’s great especially when you have a web based production environment like nCino that you work in all day and have dozens of tabs open. You can group them up nicely and keep yourself organized. Floorp is based off of Firefox ESR so it’s on an older build (but up to date security). The current build is based off FF 115 while FF is on 129 now.

          • CafecitoHippo@lemm.ee
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            5 months ago

            I’ve tried but for some reason, I can never get them set up correctly and I’m not technologically illiterate. Its been a while since I tried it though since Floorp just works.

    • wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      5 months ago

      If you’re talking about Google owned sites, there’s circumstantial evidence that Google sets their sites up to do that intentionally in order to gimp competitors.

    • verstra@programming.dev
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      5 months ago

      For me, switching from chrone to ff around 3 years it felt the opposite. Ff opens so much faster. Also scrolling is way smoother.

    • ivn@jlai.lu
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      5 months ago

      That’s weird, something is definitely wrong. Are they set up in a similar way? The first thing that comes to my mind is: Are you using the same DNS server on both? Differences in DNS response time should be more noticeable than rendering time on most hardware. And I think Firefox doesn’t use the system DNS by default but I might be wrong. Do you mind checking? I’m curious now.

    • Erasmus@lemmy.world
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      5 months ago

      I keep seeing this posted here and elsewhere. Is there a simple, easy step-by-step explanation for how to build one of these and how to deploy it on your home network?

      I’ve got very limited experience with working with Raspberry Pi.

        • danafest@lemm.ee
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          5 months ago

          You absolutely don’t need a pi to run pihole. They have a list of officially supported OSs that can run the software, regardless of the hardware (as long as it meets the insanely low system requirements), and it can also be run in a docker container.

      • Paradachshund@lemmy.today
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        5 months ago

        I looked into making one a while back and it’s honestly quite complicated if you’re not a techy person. I gave up on it, though I think you can also buy them pre-built for a bit more money so you might look into that.

          • frankgrimeszz@lemmy.world
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            5 months ago

            It doesn’t really. I won’t give a whole course on DNS and network stuff, but basically it has zero effect on your download and upload speeds.

            DNS is like a phone book. You type Wikipedia.org and DNS translates that to an address like 200.92.36.68

            When you download stuff, that’s not going through the Pi at all. So there’s no negative effects.

          • SapphironZA@sh.itjust.works
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            5 months ago

            Your own raspberry pi will probably outperform your ISPs DNS, since it’s on your local network.

            Also, just by blocking what it does, pages load a lot less, so they load a lot quicker.

    • frankgrimeszz@lemmy.world
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      5 months ago

      I use one too, but it doesn’t block certain things like YouTube’s embedded adverts. Also use uBlock Origin.

      • Makeitstop@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        It will block youtube ads if the video is embedded in another website. When I want to find a youtube video on my tv I just search it on DuckDucGo, since watching it there blocks ads and seems to bypass any restrictions they’ve placed on watching videos outside of youtube.

        I need to set up a cheap computer and just run the TV as a monitor so I can have all the features I want, including a real browser with ublock. But in the meantime, this fixes the one issue I have with DNS level blocking.

        • frankgrimeszz@lemmy.world
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          5 months ago

          You can get “android on a stick” computers and sideload some de-googled stuff. They plug right into the USB port of some smart tvs. You might be able to hack an Amazon Firestick too.

    • ivn@jlai.lu
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      5 months ago

      That’s not the same. DNS blocking is great but it can’t block as well as a proper ad blocker.

  • Stern@lemmy.world
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    5 months ago

    my issue with firefox atm is that both twitter extensions I use have been hobbled/removed by it for what looks to me to be spurious reasons.

    https://github.com/kheina-com/Blue-Blocker/discussions/294

    https://github.com/dimdenGD/OldTwitter/discussions/752

    inb4 “lol @ using twitter in 2024” I just steal memes from it, and mastodon/bluesky simply aren’t up to speed yet.

    Weighing options though I’ll go with Firefox and shitty twitter experience rather then Chrome and the ads everywhere experience. Not really a contest there. Just idle complaints.

    • Schorsch@feddit.org
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      5 months ago

      The ad machine doesn’t need my money. They never even asked. I am the product to them.

    • abbiistabbii@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      5 months ago

      I mean unless Mozilla starts getting sued by Ad companies to force them to ban ad blockers, I don’t think that will happen because being able to have ad blockers is a major selling point.

      But even if it does happen, Firefox is open source and has been forked, so the next alternative is LibreWolf.

      • Matriks404@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        Have you not heard the news? Mozilla essentially have become an advertising company by acquiring adtech start-up called Anonym. I think the only way to escape this bullshit is by installing privacy-enabled Firefox fork (such as LibreWolf) or to wait for an alternative web browser to rise up (like Ladybird or Servo) which has user freedom and privacy in its first priority, which is something that Mozilla doesn’t seem to care lately.

        • ColdWater@lemmy.ca
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          5 months ago

          no I don’t, I have not keeping up with browser news lately after switched to Floorp, not sure if I still live long enough to see Ladybird or Servo officially released

  • mrmanager@lemmy.today
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    5 months ago

    Still the best browser, even though the majority left it for the speed they think chrome has.

    • time_fo_that@lemmy.world
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      5 months ago

      YouTube videos for some reason won’t load for me on Firefox. I switched to the Waterfox fork and it’s fine.

      • mrmanager@lemmy.today
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        5 months ago

        Well, Google has been caught trying to make their sites slower / malfunctioning on Firefox. Usually they get away with it by saying it’s a mistake.

      • timestatic@feddit.org
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        5 months ago

        Google just maliciously makes their websites work way worse on Firefox. For YouTube I personally just use FreeTube on desktop and Tubular (A NewPipe fork) on Android so I never have to interact with that goddamn website

        • foreverandaday@lemmy.ml
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          5 months ago

          As someone who uses tubular I wish it got updated more tho. The number of debug versions I have installed from pull requests is like 5 at this point 😭

          • timestatic@feddit.org
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            5 months ago

            I’m fine with a slow update cycle as long as they don’t wait too long to actually merge app breaking features, like when recently youtube changed a few things and videos would no longer load.

    • Anas@lemmy.world
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      5 months ago

      I’m back on Firefox now, but I did originally leave it because Edge had the speed. Not sure if that’s because it’s more optimized for Windows.

      • mrmanager@lemmy.today
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        5 months ago

        I mean yeah, all these big tech companies are trying to make their products feel faster, because that’s the only space they can compete. When it comes to privacy, they all lose.

  • Anonymousllama@lemmy.world
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    5 months ago

    Pretty happy with Brave, but I’m guessing that being a downstream chromium fork they’ll eventually be stuffed and forced into using V3?

  • Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world
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    5 months ago

    I’m really hoping Google’s antitrust case doesn’t kill Mozilla. Over 85% of Mozilla’s cash flow is dependent on Google paying for that search box.

    • Scrollone@feddit.it
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      5 months ago

      If Mozilla stopped paying his CEO millions of dollars… and if they actually financed development with people donations…

    • timestatic@feddit.org
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      5 months ago

      Honestly at least they’d be forced to revamp their business model and focus on their users. I’d willingly donate to them monthly if it went to firefox directly and they acted in our interest accordingly

    • Sarcasmo220@lemmy.ml
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      5 months ago

      I don’t think google wants to get hit with another antitrust lawsuit for web browsing, so I am sure they will figure out some other deal to funnel money to Firefox

      • Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        Good point. Could be like MS and Apple in the late 90’s. When Apple was on death’s door, Gates invested in Apple so MS would have faux competition for regulators.

  • shneancy@lemmy.world
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    5 months ago

    I use Opera

    (yes i know it’s “Chinese spyware” if the Chinese government really wants to know what youtube videos i watch for hours, what porn i browse, and what impulse purchases i make they can have it, i don’t fucking care, when i want privacy i use Tor)

    anyway i use Opera, and despite the fact it’s been my browser of choice for over a decade i will switch to Firefox in a heartbeat if my ad blockers stop working and i’m forced to watch ads for over 3 days in a row (in uBlock devs i trust)

    • morrowind@lemmy.ml
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      5 months ago

      If you want opera without rationalizing what the Chinese government does to you, you can try vivaldi.

      • shneancy@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        nah it’s not rationalising, i really just don’t care. I mentioned it there because the second i mention Opera anywhere the first reply is always “but did you know it’s Chinese spyware?”

        I like Opera’s features like workspaces, tab islands, built in adblock, built in vpn etc. it really suits my scatter brain self

        • morrowind@lemmy.ml
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          5 months ago

          I also used to use opera, and thought the Chinese ownership made me uneasy, I only left due to their short term loan scandal.

          But honestly I don’t regret it because vivaldi has a lovely community. Opera just felt cold and faceless, and I didn’t even know anyone else who used it.

          Vivaldi has all the features (except VPN) and a lot more, so you won’t find it lacking there

          • shneancy@lemmy.world
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            5 months ago

            huh interesting! is it chromium based too though? I think at this point i’d mostly want to make a switch off chromium browsers with all the rumoured forced ads nonsense

              • shneancy@lemmy.world
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                5 months ago

                nah i’d not trust that, if chromium itself gets invaded by forced ads no chromium based browser is safe

                • morrowind@lemmy.ml
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                  5 months ago

                  Are you talking about manifest v3 or something else? Cause manifest v3 doesn’t force ads, it just cripples third party ad blockers. Also viv, (and some others, like brave) already disable plenty of Google stuff like FloC and privacy sandbox

  • Lotarion@lemmy.world
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    5 months ago

    uBO Lite works on Manifest v3 and it works quite well in my experience, so I kinda don’t get the whole manifest whining

    • Scrollone@feddit.it
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      5 months ago

      The antitrust case is about Google and Apple, not Mozilla. It doesn’t mean the antitrust case will have any impact on Mozilla, because it’s not a major player, unlike Apple.

      • SuperIce@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        The Google antitrust decision will result in Mozilla losing 90% of their revenue since Google won’t be allowed to pay them to use their search engine anymore.

      • Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        Mozilla makes about $590m a year.

        $510m of that is from Google paying for the search engine default spot.

        • UNY0N@lemmy.world
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          5 months ago

          Well I for one hope they figure out an alternative income, like a premium subscription? Or perhaps look to get acquired by proton and get some integration going with those services? I’m no expert here, I just think that they have a lot of happy users, and there must be some way to figure this out financially.

            • Ephera@lemmy.ml
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              5 months ago

              I’m not aware of any non-profit with staffing the size of Mozilla. The problem is that you need to be able to make money and to set it aside for bad times, so you don’t have to fire employees the moment the donations falter.

              The 501©(3) non-profit form of tax-exempt non-profit, which is what the Mozilla Foundation continues to be, is not allowed to do so. That’s why they opened up the for-profit Mozilla Corporation subsidiary that does most of the Firefox development.

              On the plus side, the only shareholder of the Mozilla Corporation is the Mozilla Foundation, which therefore essentially cannot accept any of the profit the MoCo might make.

        • raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world
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          5 months ago

          That’s a ridiulously low amount of money given the amount of users. I’d happily pay 10-20 bucks a year to keep mozilla alive. Not that I like it much, but more so than the big alternatives

          • Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world
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            5 months ago

            Yeah, Apple seems to be able to fetch a little more than a billion per percent of the browser market (18% at 20B), but Mozilla is only able to score 0.5B for 2-3% of the market. Mozilla is getting a quarter of Apple’s rate.

            That said, Apple has a lot more leverage than Google, and they can strong arm a better deal. I also wouldn’t be surprised if Safari users are just a more valuable marketing cohort. Firefox’s user base is going to have a lot more people who opt out of and or block targeted marketing.

    • anachronist@midwest.social
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      5 months ago

      Mozilla and its murder/suicide pact with Google falling apart may be the best thing that could possibly happen to Firefox.