I don’t know why you put holy in quotation marks, it is absolutely holy for Muslims so that’s just a fact

It is a fact… but you know what’s also a fact ? It’s not holy for the other 4199 religions, and athiests as well

Unlike you I understand that there’s a level of complexity in such texts that only scholars can grasp who have both deep knowledge of the Arabic language and knowledge about the historic context of different passages.

I speak Arabic fluently my guy, It’s not enough to read, all muslims read the Quran, yet they don’t understand it, they even struggle to stay awake while they do… might I add… I feel like you have fallen for the spell of these scholars which states that only someone who studied Islam can critize Islam and correct it… that’s completely nonsense

knowledge about the historic context of different passages.

That’s a bug not a feature, Quran prides itself by saying it’s easy to digest, the fact that you’re saying it’s complexe shows your lack of research

I’m 100% sure that neither you nor me are capable of truly understanding the Quran

Nor do those scholars that you speak of, I have read their books too :) , why do you think there’s so many sects and subsects in Islam, and why do you think they kill eachother ? Why do you think the companions of Mohammed killed each other ? And why do you think the Quran is so confusing in the first place ? Heck… Even those “scholars” fight amongst each other… till this day

so I don’t know what exactly you’re trying to tell us.

Ok I’ll be blunt … It’s violent, it orders muslims to kill non muslims ( non believers ), it’s full of scientific ethical, logical errors and fallacies… And when you cross refence it with the hadith ( the word of Mohammed ) it’s gets 100x times worse…

It’s full of homophobia, pedophilia, sexism, racism…etc … Flat earth ? Yes

I think you’re either a muslim, who’s playing around, or you live in the west and see a particular image of that religion, I’m sure you’re seeing the friendly image…

My point is, don’t say fascism and point the finger at the right suspect

your name-calling tells us more about you than me, I have talked to you directly and asked you to provide proof, if you think I’m wrong correct me, let’s share resources, show each other were we’re getting our arguments from, but nah… you insist on spreading misinformation while knowing nothing at all about the culture, the region and most importantly… that particular religion

the person i’m talking to now have at least some idea of where this behavior is coming from, yet you’re so butthurt that you chase me while I try to have discussion with other people

If there’s someone that’s pushing agenda it’s really you, and i have been veeery patient

Alright, thanks! I think I understand where you’re coming from, and can relate. I’m an ex-Christian, although I guess for ex-Muslims this process is a whole other beast.

And yes, I know exactly what you mean about culture and critique - as an leftwing, anti-theist leaning atheist, I often have to cringe about my peers. It feels like false romanticizing, like we did with native americans, or other falsly understood cultures. So many things which I despise in fascism are also present in strict Christianity and strict Islam. Although luckily, very few people take their religion seriously here. So our religious nutjobs are a fringe minority and can mostly be ignored.

Refugees welcome, but I hate it when they try to establish religio-fascist areas here, spewing hate and all their nonsense, occasionally killing someone. I mean, if you want to live like that, go back. If you like our way, be welcome.

Yeah, a sensitive topic which can easily trigger people. I try not to care about the boxes they try to put me in. And I absolutely love the freedom of speech we have here. I don’t want that be ruined by migrants who think they speak for Allah, nor by leftists who think every minority shares their values. Like I was one of them. In my youth, with coloured hair and ragged clothes, I was regularly beaten up by (almost exclusively) migrants. Created quite some cognitive dissonance, some effort to justify their deeds, like worse socioeconomic status blabla. Truth is, many people are quite “conservative”, naturally more so in less liberal countries of origin. And still, I vote and speak for open borders. Our society must find better ways than building walls. This issue is challenging European core values, with at least two ways to erode the values; we can lose them by allowing hostile subcultures to grow, or we can lose them by closing us off to the outside.

Good lord, 6 years. Poor Aisha. I guess my brain was happy to forget that detail.

So thanks again for this exchange. Stay safe.

Not other person

Child brides are an abomination.

Point. Blank. Period.

That’s what I think.