My cat was like this at first, but then I blew the smoke near him, and he went over, took a sniffy sniff, then came back and laid back down on me.
Turned out, he just like didn’t it blown in his face because that was too much. So, from then on, I just blow it near him, and he takes his hits when he feels like it.
No, allergies happen when the immune system detects innocuous substances as a threat. In this case, their metabolism has trouble breaking down the drugs in their gut so it can have unintended consequences for them. They can’t metabolize some organic structures in their livers or lungs as fast or as much as we do. And unfortunately, we don’t even know what the toxic dose is.
Theoretically that’s possible, but what makes you think that cannabinoids would have that effect on a cat? What evidence do you have of this?
I’ve had multiple cats in my life, and none of them have ever had any sort of adverse reaction to cannabis. Some may not like it, but that’s not really the same thing. And I’ve never heard of anyone reporting any sort of adverse reaction from any of their cats. I realize this is anecdotal, but still.
Even in human beings, a toxic dose of THC would far exceeded what any human could possibly consume (unless an ultra-mega-concentrate stronger than anything ever made were produced, perhaps). One would think the same would apply for a cat.
As for organic structures that don’t get metabolized, often they just get peed out. after all, that’s what happens with excess THC in humans that doesn’t get metabolized. That’s why you can detect it in a urinalysis.
Yes, and that’s a bit of a wrong assumption because cats don’t have the same enzymes we do, and even if they did, their physiology doesn’t allow for the same quantity of expression. For example, if a cleaving enzyme is anchored to the lumen of their liver, lungs, or kidneys, the surface area of those tissues may not be enough to reduce the concentration in the blood, If they have an alternate gene that does the same thing, it’s usually less effective or it could produce prodrugs that may be more toxic than the original. Also, the bioavailability of drugs largely depends on the route of exposure which is very short for cats because they have a shorter respiratory tract and the blood volume is magnitudes smaller.
In short, couple the rate of exposure with the volume of blood and a lower rate of metabolism, and your cat can reach higher levels of the drug in the blood than you’d expect more quickly. You can’t rely on what is toxic to humans to translate to another species and vice-versa or we’d have a lot more productive studies on mice.
As for the evidence, I’m sorry but I’m gonna have to outsource that to Consensus via ChatGPT which usually does a good job finding relevant science articles because I’m not well-versed in the literature. I hope it doesn’t bother you but I don’t have the time or energy to do it myself right now.
Behavioral Changes:
A case of a 6-year-old Persian cat exposed to marijuana smoke showed severe agitation, aggression, and alternating states of apathy and agitation. Blood tests confirmed the presence of delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) and its metabolites (Janeczek et al., 2018).
Neurological Symptoms: Exposure to cannabis can lead to neurological symptoms such as mydriasis (dilated pupils), altered consciousness, and behavioral changes, which can persist and require hospitalization (Brutlag & Hommerding, 2018).
Cardiovascular and Respiratory Effects:
Systemic Effects: Cannabis extract and THC can cause hypotension (low blood pressure), bradycardia (slow heart rate), and respiratory depression in cats, indicating significant systemic impact (Graham & Li, 1973).
Safety and Tolerability:
Dosing Studies: Research on escalating doses of THC and CBD in cats showed that high doses can lead to adverse events such as lethargy, ataxia (loss of control of body movements), and hypothermia. These effects are dose-dependent but are generally transient and resolve without medical intervention (Kulpa et al., 2021).
Veterinary Reports:
Incidence and Treatment: Surveys of veterinarians in North America indicate that cannabis toxicosis in pets, including cats, is increasingly reported, especially with the rising accessibility of cannabis products. Most cases are treated with outpatient monitoring and supportive care (Amissah et al., 2021).
The direct evidence is scant because of the legal limits on research. But the point is the type and extent of symptoms that these pets experience like hypothermia, hypotension, bradycardia, etc. that are alarming. Also, the rates of hospitalizations are increasing and that’s a huge danger sign now with legalization.
So, aside from your vagaries of comparative toxopharmacology which sound smart, but have absolutely nothing to do with the conversation, and a couple of vague citations from ChatGPT that basically say that the animals got high and were taken to be monitored when exposed to very high doses, you don’t actually have any evidence to support your claims that it’s “toxic”, which you directly admit.
In fact, the evidence you posted supports my claims that it behaves pretty much the same way it does in humans, aside from the fact that dosages should be adjusted for the body weight of a cat.
So, yeah. That’s why I don’t blow the smoke directly in my cat’s face because it’s too much. I blow it near him, so he can take hits at his own pace.
I’ll pretend your choice of words isn’t low-key confrontational and dismissive like every other comment on this site. I also hope that you’re replying in good faith and not just mocking me because you’re clinging to what you want to believe, and that I’m not the anti-pot boogeyman for replying with what you asked. We’re adults, right.
But I have some questions.
How are the pharmacokinetics not relevant to the conversation? Maybe to someone who knows pharma. But for everyone else, this is the context needed to realize how vastly different metabolic and physiological differences affect other species so that they don’t mistake thinking that “ultra-mega-concentrates” like you said are the only way to cause harm because that’s how humans behave. That tells me that you either don’t know much pharma or you’re vastly underplaying the effects, so I had to reel it in.
Also, just because I asked Consensus doesn’t devalue the research. Everything links back to the abstracts so please focus on those or link to your own. I know AI hate is wild here but, in this case, it’s accurate.
One of the hallmarks of drug poisoning is literally breathing suppression and hypothermia. When was the last time you felt that smoking pot? Are these symptoms not valid, do you have some other insight, or what’s going on?
evidence you posted supports my claims that it behaves pretty much the same way it does in humans
Read carefully. It does not.
dosages should be adjusted for the body weight of a cat
And how will you do that? There’s no therapeutic index. Not a single longitudinal study of cannabis consumption exists for pets to say that a few blows in their face depending on your mood that day won’t cause long-lasting harm. You’re gambling your cat’s health. As they say, lack of evidence is not evidence of absence. The first case is a great example of a cat showing extended periods of altered state far longer than they last in a human. It’s one night of rest for you vs two weeks of recovery for that cat at the vet, and that’s just an acute intoxication. And the fact that acute intoxication was even achieved in a cat is a clear sign there’s a lower tolerance for them.
And I will add that I find it contradictory that you demand evidence but simultaneously expose your pets despite the evidence and lack thereof.
Wish MY cat would hang out with me, smoking weed. She would just run away if you blew weed smoke in her face.
She was a chill cat otherwise. I thought she’d like weed smoke. Turns out no.
Maybe try these instead?
My cat was like this at first, but then I blew the smoke near him, and he went over, took a sniffy sniff, then came back and laid back down on me.
Turned out, he just like didn’t it blown in his face because that was too much. So, from then on, I just blow it near him, and he takes his hits when he feels like it.
It seems to work on other cats, too.
As much as I’d love to have my cats smoke with me, I think it’s toxic for them. Sadge. :(
They’re allergic?
No, allergies happen when the immune system detects innocuous substances as a threat. In this case, their metabolism has trouble breaking down the drugs in their gut so it can have unintended consequences for them. They can’t metabolize some organic structures in their livers or lungs as fast or as much as we do. And unfortunately, we don’t even know what the toxic dose is.
Theoretically that’s possible, but what makes you think that cannabinoids would have that effect on a cat? What evidence do you have of this?
I’ve had multiple cats in my life, and none of them have ever had any sort of adverse reaction to cannabis. Some may not like it, but that’s not really the same thing. And I’ve never heard of anyone reporting any sort of adverse reaction from any of their cats. I realize this is anecdotal, but still.
Even in human beings, a toxic dose of THC would far exceeded what any human could possibly consume (unless an ultra-mega-concentrate stronger than anything ever made were produced, perhaps). One would think the same would apply for a cat.
As for organic structures that don’t get metabolized, often they just get peed out. after all, that’s what happens with excess THC in humans that doesn’t get metabolized. That’s why you can detect it in a urinalysis.
Yes, and that’s a bit of a wrong assumption because cats don’t have the same enzymes we do, and even if they did, their physiology doesn’t allow for the same quantity of expression. For example, if a cleaving enzyme is anchored to the lumen of their liver, lungs, or kidneys, the surface area of those tissues may not be enough to reduce the concentration in the blood, If they have an alternate gene that does the same thing, it’s usually less effective or it could produce prodrugs that may be more toxic than the original. Also, the bioavailability of drugs largely depends on the route of exposure which is very short for cats because they have a shorter respiratory tract and the blood volume is magnitudes smaller.
In short, couple the rate of exposure with the volume of blood and a lower rate of metabolism, and your cat can reach higher levels of the drug in the blood than you’d expect more quickly. You can’t rely on what is toxic to humans to translate to another species and vice-versa or we’d have a lot more productive studies on mice.
As for the evidence, I’m sorry but I’m gonna have to outsource that to Consensus via ChatGPT which usually does a good job finding relevant science articles because I’m not well-versed in the literature. I hope it doesn’t bother you but I don’t have the time or energy to do it myself right now.
Behavioral Changes:
Cardiovascular and Respiratory Effects:
Safety and Tolerability:
Veterinary Reports:
The direct evidence is scant because of the legal limits on research. But the point is the type and extent of symptoms that these pets experience like hypothermia, hypotension, bradycardia, etc. that are alarming. Also, the rates of hospitalizations are increasing and that’s a huge danger sign now with legalization.
So, aside from your vagaries of comparative toxopharmacology which sound smart, but have absolutely nothing to do with the conversation, and a couple of vague citations from ChatGPT that basically say that the animals got high and were taken to be monitored when exposed to very high doses, you don’t actually have any evidence to support your claims that it’s “toxic”, which you directly admit.
In fact, the evidence you posted supports my claims that it behaves pretty much the same way it does in humans, aside from the fact that dosages should be adjusted for the body weight of a cat.
So, yeah. That’s why I don’t blow the smoke directly in my cat’s face because it’s too much. I blow it near him, so he can take hits at his own pace.
I’ll pretend your choice of words isn’t low-key confrontational and dismissive like every other comment on this site. I also hope that you’re replying in good faith and not just mocking me because you’re clinging to what you want to believe, and that I’m not the anti-pot boogeyman for replying with what you asked. We’re adults, right.
But I have some questions.
How are the pharmacokinetics not relevant to the conversation? Maybe to someone who knows pharma. But for everyone else, this is the context needed to realize how vastly different metabolic and physiological differences affect other species so that they don’t mistake thinking that “ultra-mega-concentrates” like you said are the only way to cause harm because that’s how humans behave. That tells me that you either don’t know much pharma or you’re vastly underplaying the effects, so I had to reel it in.
Also, just because I asked Consensus doesn’t devalue the research. Everything links back to the abstracts so please focus on those or link to your own. I know AI hate is wild here but, in this case, it’s accurate.
One of the hallmarks of drug poisoning is literally breathing suppression and hypothermia. When was the last time you felt that smoking pot? Are these symptoms not valid, do you have some other insight, or what’s going on?
Read carefully. It does not.
And how will you do that? There’s no therapeutic index. Not a single longitudinal study of cannabis consumption exists for pets to say that a few blows in their face depending on your mood that day won’t cause long-lasting harm. You’re gambling your cat’s health. As they say, lack of evidence is not evidence of absence. The first case is a great example of a cat showing extended periods of altered state far longer than they last in a human. It’s one night of rest for you vs two weeks of recovery for that cat at the vet, and that’s just an acute intoxication. And the fact that acute intoxication was even achieved in a cat is a clear sign there’s a lower tolerance for them.
And I will add that I find it contradictory that you demand evidence but simultaneously expose your pets despite the evidence and lack thereof.