I think you’re missing a bit here: The Japanese were historically hunter-gatherer societies far longer than their mainland neighbours. The reason appears to be a large abundance of food and resources, to the point that the Japanese hunter-gatherer societies are believed to be some of (if not the) only hunter-gatherer societies that formed year-round stationary settlements, because they had enough resources to not be reliant on wandering, as other, nomadic societies had to.
Historians believe that the Japanese only converted to agriculture once rice strains and agricultural methods that were suitable for their climate had been developed in Korea for over a thousand years, because thats how long it took to make agriculture able to compete against the hunter-gatherer lifestyle in Japan, due to the vast amount of resources.
That’s not saying much considering that their neighbors included the Chinese, which has some of the oldest history of farming in the world. The Loess plateau was farmed 10,000 years ago!
Also, guns germs and steel has been thoroughly discredited by historians and archaeologist who consider the authors work bullshit.
“I argue that although Diamond makes interesting points, his work from Guns Germs and Steel to Collapse is a distorting disservice to the real historical record.”
Even if you choose to discredit the book, I’m making the argument that Japan had a lot of resources that made hunter-gatherer societies viable enough that they actually formed year-round settlements. That’s a claim I have yet to see someone dispute, as there is a bunch of archeological evidence backing it up.
I totally disagree. If you actually read that Wikipedia article, the praise comes from people who are in totally unrelated fields like international relations. By and large, archaeologist and historians have discredited that that book and consider it a work of fiction.
Any case, I don’t know enough about Japanese prehistory to really comment one way or the other regarding your claim. I believe it’s probably pretty plausible that Japanese had made permanent settlements, probably based on hunting gathering and fishing. Fishing of course is and has been one of the main staples of food for Japanese as evidenced by their current consumption of something like 40% of the world’s seafood.
If memory serves me right, I’m talking about the Jomon period, which is the periode from about 10 000 years ago, up until about 2500 years ago, when the Yayoi period started. I believe the start of the Yayoi period is marked (among other things) by the spread of agriculture throughout Japan.
Checked it out and no, the jomon period ended around 300 BC. So while Alexander’s successors were fighting each other Japan had barely discovered agriculture
Yes: 300 BC is about 2500 years ago, which is roughly when the Jomon period ended.
My point was that the reason agriculture had not spread to japan yet wasn’t because they weren’t aware of it, but because Japan was so resource rich that it wasn’t able to compete as a lifestyle.
It’s well documented that the jomon culture traded with Korean farmers for centuries or even millennia before adopting agriculture themselves. This is an important reason for why they weren’t wiped out by disease when they came into contact with agricultural societies. Historical evidence also suggests that they were better fed than their agricultural neighbours in Korea and northern China in that period.
In short: The reason Japan started developing e.g. metalworking much later than their neighbours wasn’t a lack of resources, but an abundance of them. Which led them to not adopt agriculture before neighbouring societies had developed it sufficiently far to become competitive. Technology and social stratification typically follow once agriculture is adopted.
Yes and no: the resources that made Japan very viable for hunter-gatherer societies are very different from the resources that make an area viable for agricultural societies.
Whereas agricultural societies value open areas and metal ore a lot, the jomon societies lived primarily off foraging and hunting in wooded areas. With the rise of agriculture, those areas largely disappeared, to the point where Japan was almost deforested.
Seafood is also something Japan had a huge abundance of, but like most of the world, they overfished their stocks.
For the “no” part: Resources like metal ore, coal, oil, waterfalls for hydropower, etc. do not make a hunter-gatherer society less viable, but can serve to make an already highly technologically developed society even more viable. The point being that although Japan had an abundance of resources making hunter-gatherer lifestyles much more viable than in most of the world, they can still lack in resources that are valuable to Iron Age and later societies.
The result is that
1: It took longer for agriculture to become a viable competitor against hunting/gathering in Japan.
2: Once agriculture was adopted, the resources in demand were not in high supply (as they weren’t there in there in the first place).
I think you’re missing a bit here: The Japanese were historically hunter-gatherer societies far longer than their mainland neighbours. The reason appears to be a large abundance of food and resources, to the point that the Japanese hunter-gatherer societies are believed to be some of (if not the) only hunter-gatherer societies that formed year-round stationary settlements, because they had enough resources to not be reliant on wandering, as other, nomadic societies had to.
Historians believe that the Japanese only converted to agriculture once rice strains and agricultural methods that were suitable for their climate had been developed in Korea for over a thousand years, because thats how long it took to make agriculture able to compete against the hunter-gatherer lifestyle in Japan, due to the vast amount of resources.
Source: Guns, Germs and Steel (Jared Diamond)
That’s not saying much considering that their neighbors included the Chinese, which has some of the oldest history of farming in the world. The Loess plateau was farmed 10,000 years ago!
Also, guns germs and steel has been thoroughly discredited by historians and archaeologist who consider the authors work bullshit.
https://www.livinganthropologically.com/archaeology/guns-germs-and-steel-jared-diamond/
https://www.npr.org/sections/13.7/2013/01/14/169374400/why-does-jared-diamond-make-anthropologists-so-mad
Let’s not be one-sided here: Guns Germs and Steel, like most other works, has shortcomings, but I think it is more fair to say that it has caused a lot of discussion. A long list of experts, as late as this year, back up the book to varying degrees.
Even if you choose to discredit the book, I’m making the argument that Japan had a lot of resources that made hunter-gatherer societies viable enough that they actually formed year-round settlements. That’s a claim I have yet to see someone dispute, as there is a bunch of archeological evidence backing it up.
I totally disagree. If you actually read that Wikipedia article, the praise comes from people who are in totally unrelated fields like international relations. By and large, archaeologist and historians have discredited that that book and consider it a work of fiction.
Any case, I don’t know enough about Japanese prehistory to really comment one way or the other regarding your claim. I believe it’s probably pretty plausible that Japanese had made permanent settlements, probably based on hunting gathering and fishing. Fishing of course is and has been one of the main staples of food for Japanese as evidenced by their current consumption of something like 40% of the world’s seafood.
Was this before or after the yayoi period?
If memory serves me right, I’m talking about the Jomon period, which is the periode from about 10 000 years ago, up until about 2500 years ago, when the Yayoi period started. I believe the start of the Yayoi period is marked (among other things) by the spread of agriculture throughout Japan.
Checked it out and no, the jomon period ended around 300 BC. So while Alexander’s successors were fighting each other Japan had barely discovered agriculture
Yes: 300 BC is about 2500 years ago, which is roughly when the Jomon period ended.
My point was that the reason agriculture had not spread to japan yet wasn’t because they weren’t aware of it, but because Japan was so resource rich that it wasn’t able to compete as a lifestyle.
It’s well documented that the jomon culture traded with Korean farmers for centuries or even millennia before adopting agriculture themselves. This is an important reason for why they weren’t wiped out by disease when they came into contact with agricultural societies. Historical evidence also suggests that they were better fed than their agricultural neighbours in Korea and northern China in that period.
In short: The reason Japan started developing e.g. metalworking much later than their neighbours wasn’t a lack of resources, but an abundance of them. Which led them to not adopt agriculture before neighbouring societies had developed it sufficiently far to become competitive. Technology and social stratification typically follow once agriculture is adopted.
Then why are all their resources either inexistent or scarce? Did they use them all while still being in a voluntary state of prehistory?
Yes and no: the resources that made Japan very viable for hunter-gatherer societies are very different from the resources that make an area viable for agricultural societies.
Whereas agricultural societies value open areas and metal ore a lot, the jomon societies lived primarily off foraging and hunting in wooded areas. With the rise of agriculture, those areas largely disappeared, to the point where Japan was almost deforested.
Seafood is also something Japan had a huge abundance of, but like most of the world, they overfished their stocks.
For the “no” part: Resources like metal ore, coal, oil, waterfalls for hydropower, etc. do not make a hunter-gatherer society less viable, but can serve to make an already highly technologically developed society even more viable. The point being that although Japan had an abundance of resources making hunter-gatherer lifestyles much more viable than in most of the world, they can still lack in resources that are valuable to Iron Age and later societies.
The result is that
1: It took longer for agriculture to become a viable competitor against hunting/gathering in Japan.
2: Once agriculture was adopted, the resources in demand were not in high supply (as they weren’t there in there in the first place).