• Taleya@aussie.zone
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    1 year ago

    One of these cultures has normalised vegan and vegetarianism for centuries, the other is trying to wean a meat-obsessed population.

    They are not the same thing, nor do they have the same requirements to reach their end goals

    • AA5B@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Maybe. While I do sometime choose the plant-based meat, thinking of it as a substitute was my initial reluctance to try vegetarian food. Back then, I ridiculed the idea of a “veggie burger”, but really liked grilling a “black bean patty”. Did you realize Mac and Cheese can be vegetarian? “Greek veggie dip” is horrible, but I love hummus. I always loved various potatoes, but it was quite a revelation that you could spice them up and use them as a meal. My latest infatuation is Halloumi or Paneer - don’t ever call a nice grilling cheese a substitute for anything.

      At least for me, it is easier to choose foods for their own value, rather than suffer with a substitute, r a variation “without”. I’m not a vegetarian and have no interest in it, but I will choose what looks good to me at any given time, on its own merits

          • Taleya@aussie.zone
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            5 months ago

            what on earth are you on about.

            One of the earliest known vegans was the Arab poet al-Maʿarri, famous for his poem “I No Longer Steal From Nature”. (c. 973 – c. 1057).

            The first known vegan cookbook was Asenath Nicholson’s Kitchen Philosophy for Vegetarians, published in 1849

            These are documented historical facts. Not “saying something” which ironically appears to be the position you are claiming.

            Did the modern name come about in the 40’s? yes, that’s the etymology of it. But you’re treating that fact like the movement or ideology was formed at the same time, which is tremendously, provably wrong. It’s like claiming gay people are a relatively new invention because the term “homosexual” wasn’t coined until the 1890’s

      • Taleya@aussie.zone
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        1 year ago

        which would be fine if it were just a straight comparison but it starts bleating about chemicals and preservatives and it’s a bit too purity politicking for my tastes.

    • One of these cultures has normalised vegan and vegetarianism for centuries, the other is trying to wean a meat-obsessed population

      As someone who works in a grocery store, the worst fucking people are the ones who go up to the deli counter and yell at the clerks, demanding the "bloodiest* roast beef they’ve got. That or the spiciest turkey, or whatever.

      Dudes who’s entire sense of self is invested in eating meat. Easily the most annoying kind of guy I encounter in my daily life.

      • abraxas@sh.itjust.works
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        1 year ago

        Dudes who’s entire sense of self is invested in eating meat

        This might sound silly. But maybe they enjoy the taste of rare roast beef? Before this “make meat seem like it’s not dead animal” trend, the rule used to be anything over medium was overcooked for most meats. For some odd reason (actually, not odd. freaking additives) a lot of roast beef is sold medium-well. Which is tasteless enough to make someone go vegan!

        I don’t understand “yell at the clerks”. I’ve never seen that. But I agree it’s rude. Just **not **because they are buying meat.

      • Taleya@aussie.zone
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        1 year ago

        That and the ‘for every animal you don’t eat i’m gonna eat THREE!’ Yay well done so macho you get threatened by what another person eats fucking yay for you sir gold star.

    • NuPNuA@lemm.ee
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      1 year ago

      This is what people don’t get, if you’ve been veggie for years then you don’t need meat substitutes, these products are for normies trying to cut back or give up while they break the cultural training.

    • seitanic@lemmy.sdf.org
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      1 year ago

      How prevalent is veganism in India? Whenever I look at Indian food, it’s butter this and milk that. Sure, there are some very good vegan choices, but it seems to me that Indians love their dairy.

        • The Liver@lemm.ee
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          1 year ago

          Where are the Indian vegans? I have only ever met ONE in my entire life except myself.

          • abraxas@sh.itjust.works
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            1 year ago

            I would say about 30% of my Indian coworkers over the years have been vegan.

            I think the challenge is that, unlike a lot of Western vegans, they don’t go out of their way to talk about it. My second job, I knew day 1 about the white girl who was vegan. It took me 2 years to learn that 4 of my Indian coworkers were vegan since birth. And I only learned it because they learned I was getting into Indian food so they all started bringing stuff in for me to try. Entire meals. Incredible meals. I miss that job, lol.

            • The Liver@lemm.ee
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              1 year ago

              My family loves to announce to the world that I don’t drink milk. It’s annoying. Idk they’re probably in shock or something that someone would choose not to abuse cows. (They’re vegetarians, I’m vegan)

              Where do you live? I assume outside India? Hmm

              • abraxas@sh.itjust.works
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                1 year ago

                Well yeah, very outside of India. I live in the US, though I try not to make my identity about that.

                But one thing I’ve loved about working in Boston is how many cultures I’ve been exposed to in my life.

            • The Liver@lemm.ee
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              1 year ago

              Hi!

              I don’t mean like, online. I’ve met plenty of online Indian vegans. But still, I find it hard to believe that every 1 in 10 people are vegan. Where?!

      • Taleya@aussie.zone
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        1 year ago

        Veganism is actually a fairly new phenomenon in general, a lot of Jains in particular have adopted it. But vegetarianism in India dates back over a thousand years BCE , so yeah, they’ve got a bit of a head start.

      • lobut@lemmy.ca
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        1 year ago

        Yeah I have a lot of vegetarian Indian friends, not as many vegan.

      • NuPNuA@lemm.ee
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        1 year ago

        It’s not vegan so much as veggie. They definitely respect those cows they get the milk from though.

      • portside@monyet.cc
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        1 year ago

        Vegetarian? Yes. Vegan? No.

        I am a vegetarian. I eat dairy. I don’t eat meat and eggs.

          • Misconduct@startrek.website
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            1 year ago

            Except for the part where they’re kept in small cages or “free range” in dirty cramped pens. Luckily it’s easier to get eggs from chickens raised ethically than meats. You just gotta fork over a few extra bucks or get the hookup at a farmer’s market

              • Misconduct@startrek.website
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                1 year ago

                I never said they were? I’m not even a vegetarian stop being so sensitive. I don’t care for making anything suffer when I can still have eggs without the suffering. It’s that simple. If you’ve based too much of your personality on macho meathead bullshit then do you boo. I’m sure that’s a great replacement for an actual personality.

            • AA5B@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              Effing dinosaurs, with 6,000 years of eating cave men, deserve all the incarceration they get. /s

              More seriously, depending on your priorities, factory farmed chicken is less bad for the overall environment than pretty much any beef

            • abraxas@sh.itjust.works
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              1 year ago

              or “free range” in dirty cramped pens.

              We drive 10mph around here because the damn chickens like to “free range” in the road. Those are pretty large pens, the size of a damn town.

              The USDA needs to get their pockets out of big ag’s hands. Free Range should be Free-Fucking-Range. I get to know the chicken I eat got to run wild 16 hours every day, but many people do not.

              • Misconduct@startrek.website
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                1 year ago

                Yeah the fuckery that they pull when they list things as grass fed and free range is vile. Then they make a profit on top of it because they barely change anything but charge premium prices for the fancy label.

                I’m lucky to have a beef farm in my state that ships locally and actually follows the spirit of grass fed up to grass finished in sprawling pastures. They also do individual slaughter. For eggs we’ve got a few locals that bring them to the farmers markets on Sundays. Beef is like a once a week thing for us these days and it’s usually just ground beef. Chicken and fish are our biggest sources of protein now. I don’t really do pork anymore. Can’t find any that’s remotely close to ethically sourced which is abysmal considering how intelligent pigs are. So I just stopped buying it.

                Also, and I’m fully aware this could just be some kinda subconscious bias, but I swear the meat and eggs taste SO much better than the stuff from the grocery. Eggs especially. The yolks are so vibrant and hardly break when being fried. Even the shells seem stronger and less likely to shatter into tiny annoying bits.

                • abraxas@sh.itjust.works
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                  1 year ago

                  Here’s my reason for trying to eat a little more beef than that. If I’m giving “lives lost” any value, you can’t beat cows for calories per animal death. It beats a lot of plant-based foods. And I do have local beef, though it is not fully sustained like local chicken is… which is why I eat more chicken and seafood as well. Not to mention, even though beef around me can be ecologically sustainable, it will not remain that way if too many people eat it because it needs to be supplemented by import. So some beef = good. More beef = less good.

                  We actually have some ethically sourced local pork, too. I guess it’s nice living in a farming area of my state, despite not living in a farming-state. The butcher’s pork section is always small, but he’s got some.

                  Also, and I’m fully aware this could just be some kinda subconscious bias, but I swear the meat and eggs taste SO much better than the stuff from the grocery

                  Not really a subconscious bias. They are fresher, and preservation techniques often have not been started on them. If you eat an egg that has never been refrigerated, of course it’s fresher. (or the opposite, lol)

                  The seafood my family fishes is right off a boat, generally only a couple hours harvested. After the fishermens’ cut, the best stuff goes to a couple local restaurants and seafood markets, and the rest are frozen and shipped. Yes, you can taste the difference. I never liked scallops until I tasted “the real thing” off a boat.

      • sviper@programming.dev
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        1 year ago

        Quite popular, in my city it’s quite hard to find meat in the popular restaurants. And these places are quite old and we’ll know.

        Most foods don’t have any form or trace of meat or eggs, although milk and related items are very widely consumed.

        It’s vegetarian and not vegan.