The battle lines are being drawn in the court of public opinion. Now the question becomes how steadfast is the public support behind demanding a peaceful yet forceful resolution to this conflict and finally ending this apartheid regime.
The battle lines are being drawn in the court of public opinion.
Fortunately, a misguided demonstration doesn’t dictate policy.
this apartheid regime.
Israel is obviously not an apartheid state.
Israel is very very obviously an apartheid state.
What exactly does it mean to be an apartheid state?
Apartheid was explicitly racialized discrimination. White citizens and black citizens had vastly different rights under the law. Black South African citizens, for example, couldn’t vote for parliamentary representatives by 1959.
Israel is different, in that most legal discrimination is on the basis of citizenship. Arab-Israeli citizens face a lot of private racism, but their legal rights are completely different vs Arabs in Palestine without Israeli citizenship.
The difference between Arab Israelis and people in Gaza isn’t racial, it’s whether they lived in Gaza or in what was partitioned into Israel, and if they fled during the 1948 war or not.
Israel’s regime is deeply problematic in many ways. Whether it’s aparthied or not seems mostly in how you generalize your definition of apartheid. If apartheid must be explicitly racialized discrimination against citizens, Israel is obviously not an apartheid state. If discriminating against non-citizens counts, Israel is an apartheid state.
They’ve self described themselves as that in the past before term became criminalised in the early 2000s
It’s at least debatable and certainly not obvious.
According to Amnesty International, the world’s leading human rights organisation: “Israel imposes a system of oppression and domination against Palestinians across all areas under its control.” According to B’Tselem, the Israeli Information Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories: “The Israeli regime enacts in all the territory it controls an apartheid regime.”
Israel is no apartheid regime. Thats silly.
Give it a couple of years. Now that Hamas have upped the ante the whole thing will come to its logical conclusion. Netanyahu and the Israel military won’t stop until Israel will take over the entirety of former Palestine. Eventually it will become another South Africa, with non-Jewish people as second class citizens.
This is already in effect in Israeli territory but overlooked because there are still supposed to be independent Palestinian areas. When those are gone there will be no pretense anymore.
What does the ADL think of B’Tselem?
I’m not sure I give a fuck what either think, but it’s clearly not unbiased.
Public perception outside Israel has affected a total of 0 policy decisions in the country
Because they keep getting money from the US. The US tap has to be turned off.
Um, actually… it currently IS turned off until the house gets it’s act together. Of course, the sink is filled to the brim with soap and plates, so it will be a while before the water runs out - but it will make the genocidal plate scrubbing of Gaza a bit harder without the tap turned on.
Israel is too important for the USA’s goals and stature in the area for public perception is the US to change the flow of money.
And in practise, Israel is not getting money but weapons systems, which is quite lucrative for the US
I just want my country to stop knob slobbing these fucking fascists.
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If you don’t want apartheid and ethnic cleansing of Palestinians, then you want to rape festival-goers. Those are the only two choices!
As someone who has spent a long time arguing with these morons, just ignore them. There are people who are misinformed and people who love sucking Israel’s dick/hate Palestinians. This is the latter case.
How successful the court of public opinion has been in influencing the outcome of Israel conflict before?
Israel is a small country that relies on the implicit assumption that Western countries will defend it if a large invasion ever comes to be. If they didn’t need some considerable international support, they would have ethnically cleansed the whole of Palestine already.
Imagine how angry and disappointed our ancestors would be knowing that the supposed chosen children of God literally got given their land after WW2, gave them sympathy, gave them diamonds and global support to promote love, peace and prosperity, then watched them literally turn and slaughter their brothers and sisters next door, make millions selling spyware tools and then carpet bomb hospitals because anyone can be a terrorist. Meanwhile Sweden has had literal gunmen attack youth campus.
Now imagine that you’re actually a hardcore supporter of a Jewish homeland, or Zionism so to speak, and then imagine that this is the hell your government has created and nobody in power could be bothered building a road or a school but depends on a million dollar empire in a faraway land to provide them billions of dollars of weaponry, guns, tanks etc while they claim the country is under 24-7 threat. When you really think about it it’s almost like if it was imaginary or true it wouldn’t matter, because dogma and paranoia overrides any sense of logic with these people, meanwhile they’re literally unironically spreading their little paranoia and fear by knowingly selling spyware to dictatorships to target “dissidents”
You could have been born yesterday, or be a hundred years old, and you would still have known where energy and LOVE has been squandered
the supposed chosen children of God literally got given their land after WW2, gave them sympathy, gave them diamonds and global support to promote love, peace and prosperity, then watched them literally turn and slaughter their brothers and sisters next door
Ignoring the borderline antisemitism there, in reality the people of the region were essentially abandoned by the West to fight it out. The Arab League didn’t like the results of the UN vote, and so riots broke out and the violence escalated into a war in which the Zionists were victorious against 7 Arab nations. To be clear, I’m not saying it was moral or ethical for the Zionists to settle land that was already inhabited by Arabs in the first place (it wasn’t), but that ship had long since sailed by 1948. My point is there was a very serious war over the land and no one was “given” anything. After the war, the Western powers agreed to enforce the 1949 armistice borders, and began supporting Israel materially because they were seen as a counterpoint to Soviet-Arab relations.
It follows that the point of support for Israel has never been “love, peace and prosperity”, but a geopolitical calculation, and one that has been wildly successful in maintaining Western hegemony in a region of the world that has never been particularly receptive to Western liberalism. Because of its geopolitical positioning, Israel is under constant threat, as evidenced by the Six Day War, two Intifadas, the bus & cafe bombings of the 90s & 00s, and the frequent rocket attacks of more recent times. Yes, they are under attack because they are unwelcome in the region due to their history of violence against native Arabs, but that doesn’t make the fear of Israelis irrational or paranoid - just hypocritical. It doesn’t justify the violence, but it does perpetuate it.
And so the clearest route to peace was through the normalization of relations between Israel and its Arab/Islamic neighbors, leading to a gradual detente and eventually a regional consensus. This latest flare-up of the conflict is a major setback in that effort, though, and speculatively, that aspect of it may be intentional on the part of Iran, Hamas, Islamic Jihad, etc.
And if support for Israel stops Palestine and countries like Iran will kill everyone they can in Israel and the country will be replaced by another extremist country lead by terrorists.
Very. Israel has been on several benders that were curtailed due to international opinion. Unfortunately it’s never outrightly solved the issue.
Israel is not an apartheid regime. That is silly.
Israel has full political and military control of Palestinian land. They control every aspect of their lives. Remember when Jewish people where placed into ghettos and they each had different insignia that would indicate where they were from and were they could travel and what freedoms they had? Israel does the same thing with palestinians.
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Peaceful yet forceful?
They probably mean forceful as in strong, not nonviolent. Like the world needs to band up and tell Israel to cut their shit out like they did to South Africa.
Ah, I see. Thanks.
^ Yes, this is exactly what I meant. Thank you.
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LOL that any brit has the guts to be out there protesting when literally they are one of the founding pillars of the conflict
Wait, are you saying that people should never protest against something their country is doing/was involved in?
Yes.
Well that’s dumb. How’s a country going to correct its behaviour if it’s citizens can’t voice they want to change?
South Africa, for example, would still be an apartheid state.
Yes.
Wait, you’re pro-apartheid?
What? You totally inverted the comment with which I was agreeing.
You too have the ability to change your answer instead of leaving it to be pro-apartheid.
Care to elaborate?
Livus is referencing the Balfour Agreement .
You cannot blame the normal civilians for these particular actions. I don’t even think, some of them were even born yet.
The British clusterfuck here dates back to the first world war. No one remotely involved is alive now.
…and, we exited the area well before Israel achieved statehood.
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I don’t think there are many people that are seriously pro hamas, just benign or neutral, in respect to the fact that one side which has a large collection of groups working together, the Israeli defense force and US government etc, etc yet has kind of made some blunders and has not played their cards very well.
Even for the USA, after 9-11 and Iraq, when they moved ahead with invading Afghanistan, there was still an attempt to spend some time with negotiation and “state building” despite being seen across the world as barbarian invaders. See, the gift of being ignorant but having a lot of guns is that you don’t have as much weight on your shoulders if you screw up, the biggest project could be a highway, but for Israel, they’ve had a lot of international support and has had more than 50 yrs to resolve the Palestine question, I think it’s quite fair to say by now that they’re kind of bulldozing just to act like they have easy answers because they have an urban growth problem now more than an actual terrorism problem.
Ironically the fact that they now have a terrorism problem is more a symptom of government incompetence than terrorists actually actively seeking to destroy the state of Israel
To be blunt, even a Zionist here would understand that it’s not about being for or against the state of Israel having a right to exist, it’s about the issue of the IDF failing to resolve real issues with terrorists while essentially turning a blind eye to repeated problematic behaviours.
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They don’t know there were at one point Palestian Jews…
Pretty sure the Romans named it Palestine to be dicks to Jews lol
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So how, exact, do you see the process of making Israel not exist proceeding? Genuinely, I’m curious. Do you really see absolutely no way for a state of Israel to exist in some fashion without the genocide of Palestinians? If not, then what exactly are you proposing?
They want them to die, that’s why they just downvote lol
It’s just another emotional moron commenting based on feels as they have zero fucking clue about the actual context, and they have no interest to learn either. Virtue signaling to make themselves feel better I guess
Removed. I’ll try to make this as simple to understand as possible… You can’t advocate against the genocide of a people by promoting the genocide of another people. I don’t care if the argument is “Palestinians need to die so Israel can exist.” Or “Israel needs to die so Palestinians can exist.” Neither view is acceptable.
Israel is not a people. It’s a genocidal fascist neocolony. Palestine needs to be decolonized. I’m not advocating for the genocide of French people when I’m saying that Algeria needs to be free. The same applies to Palestine.
Edit: keep upvoting the comment that literally is calling for the end of Israel as they “don’t have the right to exist” using some shit strawman with Palestinian genocide as a fulcrum as if that’s what Israel is. The is gov does not define the people just like Hamas doesn’t define Palestine. Are you fucking kidding me?
Israel doesn’t have the right to exist? What kind of brain dead shit are you talking about??
Israel absolutely deserves to exist, they were placed there after they themselves were genocided. THAT is the problem, they were placed there and it’s fucked everything.
Israel absolutely deserves to exist just like Palestine.
If Israel’s very existance is dependent on the genocide of Palestinians, and it is, then it doesn’t deserve to exist. Rights are for people, not countries so kindly stop saying that “Israel has a right to exist”. It doesn’t, Palestinians have a right to exist without being killed and ethnically cleansed from their native lands.
Jesus fucking Christ, how are you this fucking stupid? Israel’s existence is not dependent on the genocide of Palestinians, that’s just a bullshit strawman you just pulled out of your ass so you could knock it down. Rights are indeed for people but guess what, when people say Israel deserves to exist they’re talking about the Israeli people. Those people deserve to not be killed or ethnically purged from their homes as well, the difference is the Israel never should have been placed there. But guess what they were. So what do the Israeli citizens do? If we ask you, I guess your stance is go fuck themselves because of what the Israeli gov has done over the many years. Do you not see how reductive and fucked that is?
Personally, I have always been a free Palestine supporter and a strong hater of Israeli gov but the mindless emotional backlash like the one in your comment only enables more hate and bullshit. Israel deserves to exist they just don’t deserve to exist on other people’s lands. That’s a big fucking difference to the emotional bullshit you vomited out. When you say “it (Israel) doesn’t (have the right to exist)”, it sounds quite similar to the Hamas goal of the extermination of Israel. Hamas doesn’t represent the Palestinian people, yet here you are with this bullshit. No, I’m not saying if you don’t suck netanyahoo’s dick you’re an antisemite, I’m saying if you seriously can’t see that there are an insane number of innocents on each side of this conflict, then you are lost and unreasonable.
Aha and why does Israel deserve to exist exactly? I couldn’t care less if every single country in the world disappeared tomorrow. Again, rights are for people, not countries and if your statehood relies on genocide and ethnic cleansing, it needs to go. Call me sympathetic to Hamas talking points all you want. I certainly don’t support their ideology but at the end of the day, one person’s terrorist is another person’s freedom fighter and armed struggle against an occupying force is legal under international law. Hamas isn’t even recognized as a terrorist organization by the UN. Hamas could be flowerpower hippies and they’d still be called “terrorists” by Israel and its allies. Really shows how meaningless that word has become.
Israel absolutely deserves to exist just like Palestine. Jesus fucking Christ
Israel, the Jewish state, doesn’t have the right to exist. That doesn’t mean the Jews should be pushed into the sea or whatever, but there’s absolutely no reason a country that goes “We’re the Jewish homeland. Everyone else can eat shit” needs to exist. This is the 21st century, we should oppose the creation of explicit ethnostates.
I think the point is that we saw just two weeks ago the methods that Hamas would use to un-exist Israel, so it’s not that hard to read between the lines of what people mean when they say that Israel should not exist.
We’re the Jewish homeland. Everyone else can eat shit" needs to exist.
This isn’t really an accurate description of Israel though. Israel isn’t the multi-ethnic paradise it should be, but Israeli Arabs have full legal rights and are pretty well-integrated. An Israeli Arab medic was actually murdered at the music festival when he approached Hamas members in an attempt to negotiate with them.
I would agree that Israel should not make full legal rights dependent on being a Jew, but it doesn’t do that, even though there are some actions it’s taken, particularly under Netanyahu, to tie Israeli identity more strictly to Judaism. That stuff pisses off quite a lot of secular Israelis as well.
And philosophical quibbling about the role of nation states aside, the fact of the matter is that Israel does exist and it’s people are not going to go anywhere. Given that Hamas’ explicit aim is to murder them all, Israel is going to do anything and everything to resist them. Palestinian statehood cannot and will never proceed if it’s dependent on the violent eradication of Israel. Fortunately, it does not need to depend on that, though Israel must do more to facilitate an actual peaceful conclusion, such as dismantling settlements. But regardless, violence is simply not a productive option for the Palestinian cause, and it never will be. It must be abandoned.
I would agree that Israel should not make full legal rights dependent on being a Jew, but it doesn’t do that,
It doesn’t on paper, but Arabs face discrimination by the government in many aspect of their lives, from education to building permits to how likely they are to get killed by the police (since 1948 the only protestors to get killed by the police have been Arabs).
Given that Hamas’ explicit aim is to murder them all, Israel is going to do anything and everything to resist them.
Didn’t they change that part of their charter in 2017? I mean, they’ve wanted a ceasefire since the very beginning of this mess (and got two in 2008 and 2012 that fell apart due to Israel not following them), but they made it official that they want a 2-state solution in 2017.
But regardless, violence is simply not a productive option for the Palestinian cause, and it never will be. It must be abandoned.
The thing is that, seeing the state of the West Bank (and before that how the Oslo accords failed), non-violence is also not working. We all want non-violence to work, but in the past 20 years Israel has given no indication that they’re interested in a solution, violent or nonviolent, to the conflict…
The PLO abandoned violence 30 years ago. It didn’t work, which is why people flocked to Hamas.
Hardly surprised, the tube outlet right under parliament had pro palestinian posters last I was there
Complete insanity to be a liberal western person and in that crowd, in my humble opinion.
You probably don’t understand empathy borne out of being oppressed. Liberal western person has had their ancestors fight and die for the liberalism they enjoy in the present.
Seems like they’re trying to shoehorn their cause into another.
Since many of us left Reddit without any desire to give them traffic, could you please put a warning with your link?
I think the fact that it starts with https://www.reddit.com is probably enough of a warning.
You are assuming a desktop browser and a mouse. Lots of us browse from a phone app.
They inserted the link into text. By client doesn’t display the full address ever, but for reddit links it seems to just say (/comments/). I’m assuming this is a legacy of being a reddit app (Sync). I’m pretty sure Lemmy links show the exact same thing.
Tbh I feel like this is a silly request.
No worries, I’ll just skip any links you post. Thanks.
Just add Reddit to any blocklists you use.
to be fair, if you wave an LGBTQ flag at any protest on TERF island and you’ll probably get harrassed
LGBTQ people being pro-palestine might be the weirdest thing I’ve seen in a public demonstration.
Yeah I don’t even know but hey I guess it looks like a lot of people don’t like Benji much any more
Didn’t know all those queers were moving to Palestine
And since it is illegal to be queer in Judaism as well, are they not allowed to take a side or voice their opinion?
It’s not illegal to be queer in Israel. Israel is not theocratic. Judaism, although differs to some degree, is on the more accepting part of the spectrum. It is also not illegal per se in Palestine as well but they often go to Israel to escape from very real threats from their family or the police. Israel is the only country where pride parade is held in the Middle East. Hamas, on the other hand, executes queer people very openly.
It’s difficult to separate information about Palestinian gays from the Israeli gay scene. Since Palestine is a very homophobic culture many Palestinian gays and lesbians are forced against their cultural and religious will to hide in Israel where homosexuality is much more acceptable and, indeed, protected. Three stories are presented here about gay living and loving in these two lands torn by tribal warfare.
From GlobalGayz.com
By many metrics, Israel is considered a trailblazer on LGBTQ issues. Openly gay Israelis have been permitted to serve in the military since the early 1990s, nearly two decades before the U.S. military formally permitted gays to serve openly.
From myjewishlearning.com
They live in a country where they are abble to live a life in a more open and accepted way and can’t understand that the people they are standing up would beat them, stone them or kill them without hesitation.
So your solution is to kill all Muslims? If Nazi’s said something similar, would you agree with them?
A lot of people hate that the Hamas atrocities have been weaponized by Netanyahu and he is basically doing this war to escape scrutiny in Israel.
Does pro-“the defense of the innocent” and pro-human rights make more sense to you.
Lesbians and Gays Support the Miners also received a lot of backlash from the British LGBT community for supporting a group that was stereotyped as homophobic and intolerant. And yet:
The alliances which the campaign forged between the lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) community and British labour groups proved to be an important turning point in the progression of LGBT matters in the United Kingdom. Miners’ labour groups began to support, endorse and participate in various gay pride events throughout the UK, including leading London’s Lesbian and Gay Pride parade in 1985. At the 1985 Labour Party conference in Bournemouth, a resolution committing the party to the support of LGBT rights passed, due to block voting support from the National Union of Mineworkers. The miners’ groups were also among the most outspoken allies of the LGBT community in the 1988 campaign against Section 28.
Yes, that does. I think they should read their Popper more carefully, though. I guess it feels to me a bit like what it feels to a leftist person when a poor person votes for neoliberal policies.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
The shipment of 20 trucks bringing medical supplies offered limited relief to Gaza’s 2.3 million population, under fire and with barely anything to eat or drink.
The home secretary, Suella Braverman, has previously labelled the slogan antisemitic and claimed that it is “widely understood” to call for the destruction of Israel.
A small group of protesters held a separate demonstration in central London on Saturday in which a large banner read, “Muslim armies, rescue the people of Palestine.”
The Met said it was deploying 1,000 officers to police the demonstration, as well as mounting extra patrols around synagogues and places of worship following a 1,350% increase in hate crimes against Jewish people and a 140% rise in Islamophobic incidents.
The Met said there had been “pockets of disorder and some instances of hate speech” in the series of vigils, protests and public gatherings, but that most had “been lawful and taken place without incident”.
In Australia, thousands marched through central Sydney after police gave the event the green light, and rallies were also held in Perth, Hobart and Brisbane.
The original article contains 666 words, the summary contains 179 words. Saved 73%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
Fuck Israel.
Well, the Israeli government, anyway.
I mean, how is the democracy in Israel?
I hear the media is somewhat free there
Israelis should’ve taken some action the past years
Aka “I don’t care who vowed to do terrorism, fuck those who dare to respond to it”
Which side are you referring to?
Terrorism is being done by hamas.
Among others.
Yeah. When you attack buildings that fire rockets at you, this is not terrorism.
Looked to be a lot more than 100k to me
British media likes to undersell any and all protests, they typically take their photos at the end when there’s a much lower number of people and then knock at least half off the number of people who attended. Oh and if one person brings a joke flag/banner then you better believe pictures of that from different angles will be all over the place rather than any pictures of actual protestors.
BBC is state run, of course they’re going to slant things in favor of the establishment
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300,000 apparently
What is the point of these protests?
To say that Israelis aren’t the only people needing protection.
The most charitable view:
To show western governments that the population doesn’t just blindly side with the Israeli government. A major difference between the two sides who are committing heinous acts, is that one side is a government committing genocide, and the other is a military organization (not the government) which was made in response to being forcibly expelled from their land by that government.
Neither side should be killing innocent civilians, but we should not be collectively taking Israel’s side, like is traditionally done.The least charitable view:
Because people want to get away with yelling Nazi-shit in public.Mostly to vent out anti-Semitic frustration in a way that is politically viable
Well if that isn’t the most outlandish illogical leap I’ve seen in a while…
In London, some of the protesters chanted, “From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free”, despite a controversy around the slogan’s meaning.
From the article.
Nothing antisemitic about that. Wouldn’t matter what race, religion, ethnicity the apartheid occupiers were.
Don’t confuse criticism of the Israeli government with anti-semitism. Otherwise you’re just saying “Israel can do no wrong, even if they’re doing war crimes.”
It’s not the criticism of Israel government that makes this antisemitism, but the utter lack of criticism of Hamas. You want a ceasefire? Start with demanding the release of the hostages and demand that Hamas stops shooting rockets at civilians.
I’m not going to deny that antisemitism isn’t muddying these waters to some extent. Sadly, that’s always the case when Israel comes up.
But with regards to the treatment of Hamas in relation to the Israeli government, one is an ad hoc terrorist organisation, and the other is a functioning democracy with ties to west. Hamas is already considered a terrorist organisation, what more is there to do? I hate to use an Americanism, but they’re the “underdog” here. Israel is threatened, yes, but they have unprecedented control of the situation when compared to their aggressors.
PS EDIT not to deny that Israel has historically been an aggressor
one is an ad hoc terrorist organisation
Hamas is the democratically elected Gaza government.
The last vote was what almost 20 years ago? Before many of the people in Gaza were even of age, anyway. I’m not going to argue that Hamas doesn’t act as a de facto government of Gaza, but it is not remotely on the same level as Israel.
Israel has killed more Palestinians than Hamas has killed Israelis. Punished a population is a war crime. Israel should really know about this
Like the 500 in the hospital attack? For which there is no evidence nor was it caused by the IDF. Also keep in mind that plenty of those killed will have been Hamas. You are blindly trusting numbers giving out by a terrorist organisation.
Exactly,
and then HAMAS has to stop proclaiming the destruction of Israel.
Might help is Israel hadn’t been proclaiming the destruction of Palestinians for decades. Too late to go back and not do that, but they could stop doing it NOW.
Israel never proclaimed the destruction of Palestinians. Where did you get that?
Right, right, they just proclaimed Palestine doesn’t exist:
Israeli Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich delivered a speech in Paris saying the notion of a Palestinian people was artificial.
“There is no such thing as a Palestinian nation. There is no Palestinian history. There is no Palestinian language,” he said in France late Sunday. He spoke at a lectern draped with what appeared to be an image showing the map of Israel that included the occupied West Bank, Gaza and Jordan.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/no-such-thing-as-palestinian-people-top-israeli-minister-says
If someone claims a culture doesn’t exist at all, sure sounds like they want to wipe out that culture to people who understand that it does exist.
(I found this by simply searching “Israel statements on Palestine” and it was the 2nd link. The first link had plenty of examples of Israel’s war crimes, but no direct statements from Israel. )
Israel has been treating Palestinians like shit for decades. Surprise surprise that resulted in extremist groups forming.
Both Hamas and Israel are shit, but the important thing to remember is PALESTINIANS ARE NOT HAMAS. Commiting war crimes on Palestinians is unrelated to stopping Hamas.
You can’t put political pressure on a terrorist group to stop killing civilians, you can put political pressure on your government to stop supporting a government killing civilians.Israel needs to stop doing war crimes *and" Hamas needs to be dealt with as a terrorist group.
you can put political pressure on your government to stop supporting a government killing civilians.
What do you think Hamas is? They aren’t some random small terror organisation. They are the government of Gaza. So what’s stopping Palestinians from putting pressure on them?
Hamas needs to be dealt with as a terrorist group.
And how exactly do you think that’s supposed to work? You don’t like what Israel is doing, fine, what’s your alternative?
The UK is not supporting Hamas, so their is no point in protesting their support for Hamas. If you want to fly to Iran and protest their support of Hamas, that would make sense.
You don’t like what Israel is doing, fine, what’s your alternative?
To start with: not threatening to carpet bomb civilians just because they might get some members of Hamas as well. This one should be obvious.
K, you pointed out a not, how about what you would do? Go and shake Hamas’ hand and thank the for all the children they’ve butchered? Hamas needs exterminated, and I don’t see a way to deal with them when they hide behind human shields like the shitstained cowards they are.
“So what’s stopping Palestinians from putting pressure on them?”
What would you do if you were the Palestinian in this question. seriously. Hamas is not held an election since 2006 what would you do to put pressure on Hamas while you lived in the Gaza strip?
The answer to your question is lots of stuff is stopping the Palestinians from putting pressure on Hamas.
What would you do if you were the Palestinian in this question.
We are talking about a rally in London. All I expect is to see a few signs calling for the end of Hamas, an end to violence or something along the lines. All I see is “Free Palestine” signs, which is nothing more than an antisemitic dog whistle.
Maybe if terrorists didn’t hide behind human shields, Israel would’ve been accused of far less war crimes. Grabbing a toddler after setting off a bomb and murdering a crowd is basically Hamas’ strategy.
Maybe if Israel hadn’t been doing everything they could to drive Palestinians from their land for decades they wouldn’t have helped grow these terrorist groups that are lashing out at them.
Do we know who actually fired the first shot back in 1948? The UN shat on the Palestinians by giving half their land to Israel, clearly neither side was happy about it, but who shot first? It’s been tit for tat ever since, and clearly the Palestinians have come off far worse.
Tit for tat ever since… with Israel receiving plenty of international support and an Iron Curtain supplied by the US.
It doesn’t matter if Mike and Steve have been going at each other since Elementary school. If Mike grows up to be Mike Tyson and Steve grows up to be an accountant, then Mike is the bigger asshole if he keeps coming around to punch Steve in the face, and screams “See? He deserves it! Both Sides!” if Steve gets lucky sucker punch in on occasion.
All I see from you is pro terrorist bullshit. Fuck Hamas and I hope Israel kills every Hamas sack of shit out there. Hamas at this point could do the right thing and surrender, and spare the civilians, but they’re too cowardly to do that.
All you see from me is Anti Israeli Government bullshit. When the Israeli government spends decades committing crimes against humanity the end result is not a surprise. When no one listens to the suffering of Palestinians what options are they left with?
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Are you OK?
Palestinians asking for a homeland. They are at home and have been invaded for over 70 years
What a bullshit and extremely simplistic take on the situation. As if they have been the victims here for 70 years.
I agree, I’m surprised to see so much pro-Islam here.
Pro-human rights bro, not pro Islam. Israel has to be held to the same standards that they preach around the world. If they didn’t preach so much about genocide and the holocaust then I guess it could be different for them.
Being against concentration camps (which is what Gaza is turned into) is not pro-Islam.
The bigot shows his colours.
Lost any sympathy with Palestinians on October 7. I hope Europe stops any and all support for Palestinean organizations, and I have the feeling this will happen. As a European, I am done with them.
No
Lost any sympathy with Palestinians
In other words… your sympathies always lay with the white supremacist settler-colonialist project and not their victims.
How is Israel a white supremacist settler-colonist? Do you know anything about Israel?
I guess you thought it a complete coincidence that all of Israel’s traditional supporters were countries that all had deep histories of white supremacism, antisemitism and colonialism, eh? France, Germany, the UK, Australia, Canada, Apartheid-era South Africa and, of course, the US - just a complete coincidence, right?
Israel has never been anything else.
Ah yes let’s „be done“ with a whole group of people, that’s normal rhetoric 👍
Hamas isn’t Palestine.
Did you start hating all Germans once Hitler got into power? If you didn’t, that’s mighty hypocritical of you. If you did, that’s misguidedly racist as well.
I don’t think any right-thinking person has any sympathy for Hamas, and rightly so.
However, Palestinians are not automatically members of Hamas. This would be like saying you’re “done with” Americans and we should bomb every major American city because of the actions of the Proud Boys and other right-wing militias.
Has anybody spotted signs of denouncing Hamas? All I see is “Free Palestine”. No mention of the genocidal act or the group that started this all. Makes it look like all Palestinians are in support of terrorism. I frankly lost all respect for them and their cause. It’s all “me me me” without any acknowledge of them themselves being a very large part of the problem.
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Pretty sure the Israelites taking over the grounds of Palestine happened before HAMAS ever existed.
Hamas is nothing in comparison to Israels crimes against the Palestinians.
Palestinians in Gaza have been mistreated for over a decade, they can only enter Israel during the day and have to come back by nightfall. Israel closed the border between Gaza and Egypt. People have been trapped in Gaza and treated like cattle for so long. They have been denied healthcare and basic needs. And the moment a few palestinians revolt against the oppression (even though killings by hamas are horrible), the world denounces palestine as a whole? Have you read about what Israel has been doing for the past decade or so? I think that in it’s core, it’s a fight for freedom. Hamas’ approach is absolutely terrifying, but palestinians can’t just stand and watch. How can you make sure your opinions reach the government when they don’t want to listen to you? That’s the entire point of religious conflicts, Israeli government hates palestinians for just existing. And you tell me that palestinians are supposed to sympathise with the killings in Israel, when Israel has done (and continues to do) atrocities on their people ten times as worse?
Was it horrible for british colonies to fight against the british empire? What would you think the narrative would be if Britain had a colony right now which was trying to revolt? What about everything that the US has done to destroy economies in the middle east, just to line the pockets of the rich? How is this not obvious?
I think that in it’s core, it’s a fight for freedom.
You must have drunken too much of the Hamas Cool-Aid.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Charter#Analysis
The original, 1988 version of the charter emphasize four main themes: [18]
- Destroying Israel and establishing an Islamic theocracy in Palestine is essential;[18]
- Unrestrained jihad is necessary to achieve this;[18]
- Negotiated resolutions of Jewish and Palestinian claims to the land are unacceptable;[18]
- Historical anti-semitic tropes that reinforce the goals.[18]
The Covenant proclaims that Israel will exist until Islam obliterates it, and jihad against Jews is required until Judgement Day. Compromise over the land is forbidden. The documents promote holy war as divinely ordained, reject political solutions, and call for instilling these views in children.[18]
Almost all freedom movements have extremists. The existence of extremists doesn’t justify oppressing innocent civilians. Focusing on Hamas is important, sure. But what’s a LOT more important is how Israel is (and has been) treating Palestinians. A complete disregard and lack of accountability for Israel’s actions while simultaneously asking the oppressed to condemn Hamas sounds a bit too insane to me.
There’s a reason why pro-palestine protestors do not talk about Hamas: they don’t support Hamas. But talking about Hamas takes the attention away from the crap that Israel has been putting Gaza through for more than a decade. Sure, both need to be heard. But right now, what’s not being done (and in fact, actively ignored) is talking about Israel’s actions: making it seem like a response to Hamas’ recent attacks even though it’s been happening for so long.
Hamas is not a random group of extremist, Hamas is the government that Gazans voted into power back in 2006.
And as always: If you have a better way to handle this, let us know. Everybody keeps complaining about Israel, ignores all the war crimes Hamas committed and provides no alternatives. Time machines don’t exists, so any “but Israel in the past blabla…” is rather useless.
- Nearly half of all Palestinians in Gaza hadn’t even been born then.
I mean, it’s a religious conflict. There’s not going to be any satisfactory solution for both parties really. It’s still absolutely horrible that they resort to violence over this, both the israeli government and hamas are to blame for this, and as always, the ones caught in the crossfire are innocent civilians. However, if residents of Gaza were allowed to leave, most would flee anyway, despite it (possibly) being their land. Preventing that is something Israel is certainly to be blamed for. Of course, one can make an argument about terrorists escaping along with them, but yeah.
Also, just because you can’t change history doesn’t mean that you ignore it, but anyway.
Nobody is dying while protesting in LONDON.
Whoooooosh.
Good refutation. It’s also a satrie page and just fits your stance so well that I thought you might enjoy it.
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