When China’s BYD recently overtook Elon Musk’s Tesla as the global leader in sales of electric vehicles, casual observers of the auto industry might have been surprised.
But what’s caught other carmakers around the world off-guard is something else about BYD, which is backed by Warren Buffett’s Berkshire Hathaway: its low prices.
“No one can match BYD on price. Period,” Michael Dunne, CEO of Asia-focused car consultancy Dunne Insights, told the Financial Times. “Boardrooms in America, Europe, Korea and Japan are in a state of shock.”
BYD can keeps its costs low in part because it owns the entire supply chain of its EV batteries, from the raw materials to the finished battery packs. That matters because a battery accounts for about 40% of a new electric vehicle’s price.
Uh… yeah? China beats nearly everyone on price but you don’t go there for quality and durability.
That view is unfortunately out of date. Many Chinese products are of equal or superior quality to their global counterparts. Think Lenovo laptops and OnePlus smartphones. Chinese stuff can be cheap and high quality.
The American car companies haven’t exactly been stellar with regards to quality, reliability, and safety lately either.
My VW-built EV seems pretty high quality. China and USA aren’t the only game in EVs.
Not to mention: I’ll eat my hat if the CCP isn’t providing some sort of subsidization, for no other reason than the fact that it’s a national pride thing for them
As if Tesla was famous for its quality and durability either.
This is good, nice to finally have competition.
Tesla is extremely overrated (as can be seen by them repeatedly lowering prices now that any competiton exists).
And the BYD is a nice little car. I test drove one and was quite surprised how many features it had.
Hopefully others will follow suit. The EV market up till now has just been overly expensive cars unfortunately which hurts adoption.
This is why Americans hate China. It’s legitimate competition for them.
Proven an idiot in a single sentence. Good work, man.
Is this another case of subsidizing the product to sell the data? Information over each individuals driving habits, audio from the car, connection to the phone. Could be valuable to the CCP.
Louis Rossman was making a video about cars in the US spying on you though, everyone wants that data.
Therefore chances are that our kids will be fed up with it and will be driving cars made by Mozilla? Cool.
That it is happening is the issue, foolish to think that it is only the CCP that would be interested in doing this and not say the largest military industrial complex in the world known for over extending and threading on the rights of people across the globe.
Are these even street legal in the US? Our safety standards are obscene. Air bags alone cost 5k.
It’s why Tata never released a vehicle here.
Another example of America costing loads of money for little to know benefit.
Yeah! Airbags suck! Wait, what?
Clown take if I’ve ever seen one lol
No not the airbags, the safety standards being “obscene”, cost prohibitive and not yield good results.
So if American standards are preventing additional competition it should be because they have a very high standard which should bare out in terms of road and pedestrian deaths and injuries. It does not. Therefore the “obscene” standards are another example of poor results to cost.
What a silly thing to say. On what basis have you decided they don’t yield good results?
Not really conclusive as there have been increases in speeding and drunk driving that cause total accident numbers to go up. A more relevant stat would be fatality or injury rates per accident.
You’ve changed your tune from it being silly to needing more granular data.
Pedestrian deaths are on the rise and decent safety regulations could impact speeding and drunk driving.
Jesus what is going on in Russia
Per capita probably isn’t a good way to measure this.
Car deaths should probably be by miles driven.
Sounds like what the Oceangate CEO said about industry safety requirements for submersibles.
I’m saying they’re not fit for purpose, America has a shit ton of road and pedestrian deaths. The safety regulations don’t do enough.
Hey since you seem to be ignorant of old car safety hazards ive got a '78 Ford pinto to sell you.
But seriously modern American cars (or atleast the post 80s ones) are a shitton safer than their old counterparts. And this is coming from someone who loves old piece of shit cars (Id drive the Homer).
Modern American safety features to a point were paid in blood. Tuna canning in small cars is isnt nearly as common as it once was, and the pealing the smashed in head of the drive off of the stearing wheel isnt all that common anymore.
There are certainly some so called safety features that are laregly pointless IMO but my hatred of back up cams aside, survivability of car crashes have skyrocketed.
But America bad! If America has airbags then airbags bad, too.
this comment has “little to know”
Also why all the new cars suck.
New cars suck because planned obscelensce has been catered to by regulations and industry.
Safety standards are not bad, they just don’t have decent standards in America.
If you want people to buy new cars every year wouldn’t you make the new cars look different? More exiting or whatever? We used to have awesome fins on the back of cars now we just get a shiny grill. “planned obscelensce” doesn’t force them to make cars that all look the same. That’s safety regulations.
Fins and spoilers are cool but like if their removal saves lives then I’m all for it.
Cars all looking the same is because of the tightening of supply chains, it is cheaper to make everything apply to as many models as possible.
I can’t remember which brand it is, whichever supercar brand is under VW, but they have parts shared with golfs and audis. This efficient but doesn’t make for huge variations.
Of course nobody can match BYD, they don’t just own the supply chain the Chinese government subsidizes every part in their supply chain. The Chinese government wants to crush foreign competitors. And before you say that Tesla gets subsidies, it’s no where near as extensive as the subsidies Chinese EV manufacturers get.
So China investing in their manufacturing capabilities are resulting in better prices to customers. Western subsidies result in better paychecks for management or act as a feedback loop in the form of lobbying.
Subsidiaries enabling a more rapid transition away from fossil fuels by lowering the cost to consumers is a great thing, and what’s even more impressive is they’re also using subsidized projects to install high-speed or low cost rail lines all over the world.
It’s great that there’s a country working so hard to help is turn the corner on climate change especially as they’re focusing on making life better for the working classes. The country has lots of problems but we all do, they’re also doing great things which I think we could learn a lot from them.
A lot of people are saying this is bad, but for once, I’m on China’s side here.
The faster we pivot away from fossil fuels, the better, by any means necessary.
It’s bad because it forces a monopoly. Once co.petition is out of the window, they will recoup with monopoly prices
China has the most competitive EV market on the planet.
And don’t underestimate, that Human Right Violations are a competitive advantage, too. You don’t even need to argue with slave labor from Uygurs, but not allowing unions and having really low labour standards brings the costs down.
Is that why license plates are so cheap in the US?
I know youre making a prison joke but license plates are small stamped pieces of sheet metal. Im pretty sure you could automated that down with relative ease.
Right, but prison labor is still used in many other contexts.
I know, I was just saying that license plates are one of the elements of prison labor which has pribably been eliminated. Hell im not even against prison labor per se, I just wish they were paid a good sum for it. It would give them some cash to get started again once out.
What does the government subsidy per vehicle work out to?
China doesn’t need to subsidize the entire supply chain because the reason Chinese EVs are so cheap is literally hyper-capitalism. China has had an immensely competitive EV market for years, and they’re been getting into price wars without government intervention. That’s forced innovation at a pace that Tesla cannot match alone because they have no need to compete at such a pace. Here’s a list of national EV subsidies and their status:
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In 2022, the 12600RMB consumer incentive to buy a BEV vehicle was ended. This is rather similar to Biden’s EV tax credit.
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China has waived the consumption tax for the EV market, which is a tax designed to target environmentally-unfriendly products. The consumption tax is commonly applied to automobiles, but they’re being explicitly waived for the EV market for what is hopefully an obvious reason.
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Currently, the tax-free allowance for an EV (the portion of an EV purchase that is not charged VAT) is 30000RMB (@13% VAT, = 3900RMB). This subsidy is being reduced in 2025 and phased out entirely in 2027. This is also rather similar to Biden’s EV tax credit.
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Costs of EV charging/battery switching on the grid are borne by the government because the government manages electricity on the supply-side, including finding producers and managing distribution. This is not unusual of crown corporations in other countries.
While there are provincial incentives for companies to set up shop in one province over another, they’re smaller scale, not received support at the national level, and not unique to China (see: subsidies to Tesla for their production and to Amazon for their HQ2). The most unique element of China’s subsidy regime is the elimination of excess consumption tax in the EV market, which has created a huge marginal advantage for developing EVs over developing ICE automobiles. Importantly, that subsidy is simply reducing the excess tax charged on automobile manufacturing over that charged on typical consumption.
It can be all that, and subsidize. Some of it is a form of subsidizing. I’d say big picture subsidizing for the environment is ok. The raw market is prone to anti-competitive practices, catch 22, tragedy of the commons, etc. You want the unseen hand and some planning. A mixed economy. Which is what we all have in some form, outside of lawlessness of failed states, where drug/war lords rise and set their own laws/regulations anyway.
I’m telling you, those are literally what the subsidies are. None of this is private or confidential. The lack of consumption tax is the single greatest supply side subsidy.
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This is the best summary I could come up with:
When China’s BYD recently overtook Elon Musk’s Tesla as the global leader in sales of electric vehicles, casual observers of the auto industry might have been surprised.
But what’s caught other carmakers around the world off-guard is something else about BYD, which is backed by Warren Buffett’s Berkshire Hathaway: its low prices.
While BYD cars are not yet a common sight on American roads, many experts believe it’s only a matter of time, despite the high tariffs that help keep them at bay for now.
But BYD is planning to export much cheaper models to markets around the world, including Europe, South America, and Southeast Asia.
In November, House lawmakers warned about Chinese giants like BYD “gaining a back door to the U.S. market” through the southern neighbor.
BYD also has the advantage of its founder and CEO Wang Chuanfu, a relentless cost-cutter whom the late Charlie Munger—Buffett’s long-time partner at Berkshire—described in one of this final interviews last year.
The original article contains 556 words, the summary contains 160 words. Saved 71%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
