Genital mutilation under the guise of “easier to clean” is stupid. Cutting off your legs also makes them easier to clean.
I’ve seen people lose their shit over babies with pierced ears and young children getting tattoos. There’s all sorts of dental work you go through as a kid that you have functionally no control over.
Even had someone chew me out because a foster kid I was taking care of got a haircut (three years old and she’d literally never had one before).
At some point, it is the parent’s duty to take care of the child, and that extends to medical decisions with profound long-term consequences. I get wanting to change the culture, but the degree to which people exaggerate the harm of circumcision struggles to eclipse the degree to which it is defended.
Cutting off your legs also makes them easier to clean.
There is some substantive utility to legs that doesn’t extend to the bit of flesh around the tip of your dick.
Being able to turn the end of my dick into a water balloon is all the substantive utility I require, sir.
A perk of living in a modern world.
What’s even funnier to me is how people will full on rage when someone brings up female genital mutilation while in the same breath saying circumcision is fine
Dude, yeah. It’s so weird.
I refused circumcision for my son (25 years ago, US hospital), and had to remind the staff several times because it was just assumed it would be done. I stopped them 3 times during different shifts when they were about to take him from our room for the procedure.
Then when it came up in conversation when he was an infant, people would say to me ‘you should have done it’, because he would get infections (he never did), or he’d be bullied in gym showers (he never did to my knowledge), or whatever. My take was it should be his decision, not mine.
The pressure was really intense, though. It’s weird how interested people can be in someone else’s infant’s penis. We’ve never talked about it, but reading stories from other men, I assume he’s happy being uncut, and I’m glad I didn’t do it.
e: for anyone reading this days later, I did ask my son for his opinion prompted by this conversation, mostly because of responses I got elsewhere in this thread that made me question my decision:
Me: Hey man, so feel free not to answer this if it’s too personal, but I was having a debate about circumcision and another parent challenged me saying I’d made the wrong decision. So yes/no/I don’t want to talk about it cuz that’s weird, do you regret my decision?
Son: I don’t, and none of my partners have, either. I only get thumbs up and compliments. I hope that wasn’t too personal.
Me: Not at all. Thank you for giving me your and your partners’ review!
So yeah, it’s not just my assumptions. And no regrets.
My take was it should be his decision, not mine.
It’s not though. They’ll never be able to go back and have it done as an infant. Time machines don’t exist.
The procedure is much, much easier as an infant than it is as a boy or teenager or adult.
I respect whatever decision you made. There are reasons for both. But no, he didn’t have the option to go back and have it done easily.
And sorry about the pressure. You shouldn’t have to go through that, and I hope/expect that aspect is better after 25 years.
every slice and dice would be easier as an infant as you wouldn’t remember it anyway. you’re an idiot
I actually think about the ignored psychological effects of dealing with that level of physical pain so soon after being born a lot.
Birth is already a traumatic experience for both mother and infant. But to then immediately, with no anesthesia, cut an extremely sensitive part of the infants body off? That has to leave some kind of mental scarring.
I can actually speak to this.
I was born with a genetic condition affecting my collagen (Ehlers Danlos), which meant my bones were overly soft and, since I was breach til moments before birth, my legs were bowed pretty severely. This was in 1971, and the treatment at that time was the doctors literally bent my legs into position manually and then braced them for my first few years. That’s not how they deal with it nowadays, because they learnt it was horribly painful.
I don’t remember that initial experience, obviously, but my mother tells me several years later when I was a young child and having problems walking, she took me to the doctor and they finally worked out that I was in excruciating pain all the time. They asked why I hadn’t said anything and I told them it was because everyone was always in excruciating pain, but nobody else was complaining about it, so I shouldn’t either. I’d been in pain since birth, and just figured it was normal.
That experience prevented me from getting proper care and made my early childhood hell. I still have emotional trauma from it. So yeah, early pain is not benign.
I am for one happy to be circumcised (i had a really awful, treatment resistant inflammation, circumcision on young people for no reason is shit)
Always weird to be reminded that the World’s eminent superpower is obsessed with cutting bits off babies’ dicks. But then, maybe that’s the secret behind their economic strength?
After all, the Romans did some pretty wild stuff, like making their horses generals.
I’m Canadian they do this here as well
I didn’t realise you had horse generals.
Ah, the old Lemmy S-whinny-roo!
I mean, the Middle East and Africa have even higher circumcision rates and it doesn’t seem to be working out for them
The Romans used to do the opposite, and tie their foreskin shut just to be extra sure no one would see the head of their penis.
Oh jesus christ can we please leave this stupid circumcision bullshit on reddit?
Well, you didn’t leave your dumbass comments there either so, pot calling the kettle black
No
It looks better cut than uncut. Change my mind.
I love when this topic comes up because people definitely don’t have a weird fixation on foreskin and totally have balanced discussions that calmly hears both sides.
Not a fixation on foreskins but on personal freedoms and the right to choose what happens to your own body:
Are you an adult? Cut off what ever part of your body you want to. I don’t care.
Are you an adult who wants to cut of body parts from others? No. Stop it. Let them decided themselves when they are old enough.
If you intentionally do not recognize it as a legitimate medical procedure with lots of science backed behind it, then you’re purposefully spreading misinfo. That’s just a fact. Just like how some people in this thread are saying it reduces sexual pleasure, scientific evidence states this is not true. It’s also significantly safer and less risk when they’re a baby. These are just peer-reviewed objective facts that have been extensively tested and confirmed.
you’re an idiot and so is anyone that agrees to circumcision for an infant.
Very level headed statement after being shown evidence
lol ‘evidence’
I’ve been reading your comments, it’s amazing how someone can link an article to 37 grown men voluntarily circumcising themselves and use that as evidence towards why children would like to be circumcised.
You fucking dumb my guy.
Or a lobbyist for big foreskin.
Haha the irony of you coming out so strongly after your original statement is gold.
This mf both sidesing cutting baby dicks, smdh.
Why is this a both sides thing? Circumcision is a Jewish rite that became a larger thing because of a couple mentions in the Christian New Testament. It also has some medical application for individuals with certain conditions.
Doing it to all male babies doesn’t make rational sense unless you are a specific type of religious.
While circumcision has been a Jewish tradition historically, it has come a long way since then. There are decades of medical research and studies that prove that it is a safe procedure for newborns and bring numerous benefits later in life. Please trust the science and not the religious rhetoric.
I think part of the problem with this discussion is that a lot of us who were circumcised without consent spend most of our early years thinking it’s normal and there is nothing to be upset about. So when people point out the practice is generally very harmful, it is upsetting. It can be hard to process at first, and I think, unfortunately, some people double down on traditional rationalizations as a defense mechanism.
That being said, I am not a fan of people referring to my genitalia as mutilated/mangled or to me as damaged. It is completely valid to be upset about having your foreskin removed without your consent, but I feel sometimes people veer a little too far in projecting their own hurt onto others. Many people live fulfilling lives with circumcised penises, and some even do it by choice, so, speaking strictly for myself, I generally am glass half-full about it.
- Kids can’t consent. Parents do it for them in every aspect. This is no different. Making medical decisions for your kids is normal.
- You have no reason to be bitter about a legitimate pre emptive procedure to prevent smegma and potential phimosis
- Male circ is a safe and sometimes necessary procedure.
- Why cant you people be honest? You’re bitter we get it. But lying about circumcision is just stupid and doesn’t convince anyone to not do it.
- Everyone should Google phimosis. Anti circ ppl love to lie about there being no medical reason or excuse it away.
- It’s none of your business what other people do with their bodies.
- There is nothing harmful here at all. It’s no different than removing a skin tag. Demonizing it is laughable.
Google says phimosis is fixed easily and is rare to begin with. I think being passionate on either side is silly
Harming babies unnecessarily tends to bring out passion in some.
I’m circumcised and happy about it because of conversations I’ve had various women about dicks in general and my dick in particular with a few of them. That being said if I ever have a son, he won’t be circumcised. Unless his mom is Jewish I guess. But I don’t understand the anger around the subject at all.
It’s good you’re able to talk sanely about it.
But I don’t understand the anger around the subject at all.
It’s simply a subject of personal autonomy and body integrity.
Imagine being a grown man or just a teenager and being forced to perform that operation without your consent nor any explanation (as it’s mostly useless out of social norms and potentially harmful). I guess you’d be furious, at least.
That’s it.
But it’s not happening to grown men or teenagers against their will. It’s happening to people when they won’t remember it and the idea is it prevents minor annoyances about being a man. Archaic and unnecessary? Definitely. But getting mad at people isn’t going to change their mind and doesn’t help people understand it’s unnecessary. That said, being someone who has a mentally unhealthy aversion to bathing, I’m really glad I don’t have to even think about “smegma” I didn’t even know it was a thing until I was fully grown.
Edit: to be clear, I don’t think anyone should do that to their kids. If you can’t teach your kid to clean themselves you probably shouldn’t have them to begin with. I just think it’s more helpful for future kids if their parents aren’t circumcising them because they don’t want to agree with the annoying angry people online. It would be more helpful to spread knowledge without judgement or making people feel shameful for something they thought was good. That’s how you get people to double down.
Yeah, I think since the practice is based on organized religion and there’s no consent when circumcised, the validity of circumcision is quite questionable.
But, medically speaking, is circumcision harmful?
That’s a genuine question and I see a lot of uncircumcised people complain about phimosis and the skin flap getting tighter and more uncomfortable as they grow older, being cut sounds better.
But, medically speaking, is circumcision harmful?
Seems to be among the hysterical crowd who’s not actually familiar with the medical opinions on this topic. Not surprising.
Oddly, I happen to know a plastic surgeon who performs the procedure in my city, he’s apparently the go to guy for it so when given the opportunity to talk about children’s genitals I just had to take it up with him…he told me, to my surprise that the vast bulk of his patients now are recently immigrated from Africa. Wasn’t expecting that, was more just curious how much bullshit he got on a day to day basis given his specialty.
last i checked according to the ole reliable wikipedia, circumcision is still pretty big in other parts of the world, notably africa iirc.
Society is weird.
It’s odd to me, and the specialist that the majority of his work now involves African people rather than the clientele he’s been working with for the past 30ish years of his practice was the point he emphasized.
Yeah fuck circumcisions. Child abuse is what it is. I want my fucking foreskin back
I don’t want much just want my foreskin back again
No it’s not TMI I shared it 'cause we’re friends
My parents chose this road but I’ll choose where it ends
Don’t I deserve it all? Gonna grow it back againGrow It Back Again - foreskin restoration anthem from How To with John Wilson (HBO 2020)
I want my fucking foreskin back
Doom music starts playing
The Only Thing They Fear is Foreskin
Fearskin
I have a certain set of skills…
Foreskills
My mother used to hate it when people would get baby girls’ ears pierced. Called it child abuse and mutilation.
I’m circumcised.
Damn. That’s pretty fucking shit.
Not sure how badly you want it back, but it is possible to restore. Non-sugically. Basically skin under tension causes Mitosis (skin cells dividing to make more skin) - think putting on weight, gaining muscle, getting pregnant, or ear gauges. You tug the skin long enough and eventually have your hoodie back. The results are surprisingly impressive. r/restoring_foreskin has a bunch of info
bruh. I don’t necessarily want it back and was just angry about the fact that it was taken from without my consent in the first place. But thanks for the info anyway, tho not sure what I’m gonna do with it.
Tug the foreskin? Lol
Hmmm, perhaps we can play tug of war with foreskins lol
So glad that didn’t happen to me.
Me too, were the lucky ones
Mine only stayed uncut because there was a protest going on outside the hospital where I was born, where dudes were demanding their foreskins back lol
Is they/them talking to a penis or a person? WTF is a reblog??
Grandpa get off my computer
Ok ok but first you help me with this Google machine and tictac youngsta
I don’t really care. My dick works great, I wouldn’t do this to my kids but my parents trusted the doctor. I still love my parents anyway.
E: also, this illustrated girl looks really weird, and this is a really weird conversation. Real women do not look like this, and I wouldn’t get naked in front of a girl who looked like this. Eeesh.
oh, the parents? for the most part unknowing, the doctor on the other hand? ya, hate him
Supposedly is super safe and has health benefits, I once compared it to female genital mutilation and ooh boy was I corrected.
Edit: the above is far from an endorsement. Some of yall could use some practice critical reading.
If you were uncircumcised now, would you choose to have it done at your current age? No. Then, why do it to a baby without their consent? It’s a bodily autonomy issue.
Not a real comparison. A baby is given some sugar water and already lives in diapers. They don’t even bleed after it’s done, and you just put some jelly on the front of the diaper for the first few weeks. They experience no discernable discomfort.
An adult male has gone through puberty and has a life that doesn’t involve sleeping through 18 hours of it and getting changed every couple of hours. The risk of infection is greater because you are an adult who doesn’t get the luxury of having every single need met 24/7 and getting to rest through your entire recovery.
You are profoundly uninformed and clearly huffing copium to deal with the fact that you chose to mutilate your own newborn sons penis. Great work bro.
I trust the doctors over internet weirdos obsessed with kids penises.
Who’s more obsessed, those who leave well enough alone or those who perform drastic, unnecessary, life-altering surgery as soon as a baby enters the world?
It’s a totally valid comparison.
Removing the foreskin has real ramifications for not only looks but sexual pleasure (which, by the way, was why it was popularised by puritan Christians in the US – the original point was to stop teenage boys from masturbating by making it less pleasurable).
Cutting off the foreskin at birth takes something from a man that he can’t really restore later, whereas doing nothing gives him the bodily autonomy to make that decision later. You can always remove it if you want, but once it’s gone, you can’t just grow it back.
A baby is at your mercy and has no choice in the matter.
No, you only have a short window to make it a nothing surgery vs. a week+ recovery time.
A baby will always be at their parents’ mercy. And if a parent feels the medical benefits outweigh the risks, they get to make that choice.
Also, I don’t get why people keep bringing up Kellog and his ilk. It’s irrelevant. WHO and the CDC both cite benefits. That’s relevant enough for a person today without pretending the reasoning has to be based on old information.
Again, cite sources?
Yes, I’m aware it’s a week of recovery time later. I made the decision not to circumcise my son after talking to my father who had the procedure in his teens after he developed a condition. He told me exactly what it was like. (My father is 88 and was born before circumcision was common.)
You can do almost anything to an infant and they won’t remember the trauma. Infants have been subjected to near-fatal child abuse, including having their femurs broken, and they don’t remember it. That doesn’t make it right.
Having your wisdom teeth removed takes at least a week of recovery and we do that in late teens or early twenties. There are lots of things that take a week to recover from, and having to have your foreskin removed because it’s causing issues is far, far more rare. That’s not a reason to take that choice away.
Like I said, they can always have that procedure later if they want to, but once it’s done, that choice is basically gone.
Also like I said, I’m not trying to make people feel bad for having done it when we didn’t really know better. I’m not shaming anyone. It’s just what we did until recently. Going forward, though, it’s not justified and we shouldn’t be advocating for it now that we know better.
eta: and Kellogg isn’t irrelevant. That’s exactly why the practice has been embedded in American culture, so when we’re talking about why we do it, he’s extremely relevant.
As an American who’s uncut… there’s a scar?
There is no scar.
What’s fucked is I had no idea that was a scar until I was well into adulthood.
This is something I do not wish to google. Is it noticeable? I would assume a small surgical cut that occurs at infancy leaves no significant scar
Not to be crude but this pretty much is what I’m talking about. It’s almost like having a two toned penis…
NSFW btw… Although it is just a drawing
Are you saying all those vitiligo penises in porn are actually just circumcised?
Wow the frenulum gets removed as well sometimes? What an outdated and ridiculous thing to be doing to children for absolutely no good reason. Yeah sure, some studies show it improves hygiene I’ve been told. To me that’s about as proportionate as removing all your healthy teeth so you don’t get cavities in the future…
Ok wait the rest of this is important but sidebar, my peehole is called a MEATUS??
Biden needs to bring this up at the next State of the Union address
It is the number one cause of Two-Tone-Malone.
