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Fucks sake I need to move.
Ok sorry if this is a stupid question, but why not let them?
It seems like the biggest concern is a humanitarian one - that sane people who remain in Texas will be worse off - but it significantly improves that same problem for everyone else in the union. And a war would possibly be even worse for sane Texans. It would be cheaper to subsidize relocation costs.
I just don’t get why we’d fight to keep them, or pretty much any state these days. They don’t have slavery, and there’s nothing huge that we were right about to change.
Maintaining the union is important. Without solidifying that every state is in it together, the federal government loses it’s power, then states start to push the limits, not paying taxes here, disobeying federal law there.
If we wanted to let states secede, we would have formed a Confederacy, or not a country at all. As it stands now, the US government will always fight for a United States, as to not do so puts everything in jeopardy. Maybe you don’t think that’s the best action overall, but until the US government is reformed under a heavily modified constitution that probably won’t happen.
There would be significant economic disruption for all parties. People seem to think that’s no big deal, but it is.
Are you willing to lose your job because someone gets a hard-on when they see a picture of the Alamo? People that are brave on the internet will say that they’re fine with that, but in real life they don’t actually want that.
Legal Eagle did a video on this and brought up some interesting points I dont see very often.
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What happens to all the Federally-Owed land and military bases in Texas?
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What happens to Shared assets like the gold on Fort Knox?
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What happens with the National Debt?
Yes, if there were a hypothetical US military base, hypothetically called Fort Sumter, where there’s US military stationed in a state that hypothetically seceded, how would that play out, hypothetically speaking? :P
Assuming it was a peacefull succession. Negotiations etc. Really not to difficult to resolve.
Of course the reality is no one in power in Texas really wants to go independent. They want to use the threat to try and controll the federal government. And or They are just using there supporters to gain a foot hold on some power.
Well yeah, all issues can be resolved via negotiation. But the key is both parties have to negotiate in good faith. And many times secessionists want to have their cake and eat it too.
I’m Canadian and we’ve seen this kind of thing with both Quebec and Alberta. Alberta is basically Canada’s Texas (right wing, they got oil) and like Texas the secessionist tendencies aren’t all that serious.
With Quebec it’s a little more serious. But people still have weird ideas about what being a country means. We’ll still have Canadian passports, right? No you won’t. The federal government employs a lot of people in Quebec, those jobs aren’t going away, right? Uhhh… those jobs are leaving to go somewhere in Canada. Also there’s indication from the private sector from companies like Air Canada that they will be moving their head offices to somewhere in Canada. Oh, and by the way, Quebec is going to have take on a percentage of the national debt equal to the the percentage of Quebec’s population in Canada.
A lot of these things are just about emotion. I feel pride for Texas! I hate liberals! We should be our own country! But when you get down to the nuts and bolts of it, it takes all the fun out of it and it goes away.
Lol, I don’t know where you get your information, but Quebecers who are for separation, like me, don’t think they’ll still have a Canadian passport, nor a job in the federal government. The fact that many in Canada would think we’re that dumb only reinforces my conviction for separation. Dont get me wrong I think most Canadian people are really nice and I love them as brothers, but I just dont think they understand or care about our culture.
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Ok sorry if this is a stupid question, but why not let them?
Because they would inevitably start a war again.
I mean, they’re already our enemies. Might as well fight 'em.
As a Native Texan leftist, please don’t devolve in to tribalism “them” includes a huge diversity of people who don’t agree with the insanity some fellow Texans spout.
This right here. Right-wing politics require oppression of an underclass or other. The first steps would be likely be to turn inward and mass murder and/or imprison/enslave dissidents and minorities. This is not sustainable, however, as there are only so many that can be oppressed in one place without hitting critical mass, and that’s not even getting into the economics or other factors.
So, like all other right-wing governments, they would be forced into expansionist/imperialist action. This would probably start with trying to annex a swath of Mexico, but could, if the politicians are the “true believer” type, rather than pragmatic sociopaths, it could well be the Midwest. In the first case, we likely end up with a new narco-state with oil fields in cartel hands, and a long, intractible insurgency. In the latter, the RoT gets curb-stomped by NATO and/or other coalition forces. Either way, lots of non-combatants suffer unnecessarily.
Monroe doctrine intensifies
They’ve never been the brightest state. They’re just a more-westerly Florida.
Just seeing Alberta Canadian born Ted Cruz gone from the USA is more than enough for most of us
He’s more American than Canadian. You broke it you bought it.
His real name is Rafael Cruz and I think it’s time we start using it.
Not only is this just about the only deadnaming I support, I think we should all use the Spanish rolled “R.”
Also it’s the only time I’d be comfortable saying “No, where are you really from?”
No. Sorry, I know you’re going for a joke and I don’t wanna be a buzz kill. But it’s still messed up to deadname. Doesn’t matter if they are cis, trans or an asshole.
Look I totally agree he is a massive piece of shit. But so is Caitlyn Jenner and Blair White. Every single person everywhere has the right to their identity and to conceptualize themselves however they wish. And if we make respecting those choices, such as their name, contingent on good behavior that just signals to every trans person watching that we also have conditional respect to exist and function in society comfortable, safely and normally.
I’m not defending Ted, he is a major PoS, but defending the concept that no one can control how they were born and those circumstances should not be a limitation on how any one wished to live their life.
The joke is that it is emphatically not deadnaming. It’s disregarding a preferred nickname, but calling into the discussion the topic of deadnaming because he and his culture are massively transphobic.
I know we’re just two strangers passing in the night, but I want to be extremely clear that I would never deadname someone, regardless of their political beliefs or their stance relative to the trans community. I completely and totally respect the rights of all trans persons and for all people to define who they are.
I will also continue to call X Twitter and refer to it as deadnaming for the same reason, but if tomorrow Elon were to come out as trans I would respect their chosen names and pronouns.
I’m a cis gendered mostly gay man who has been active in the LGBT political and civil rights community since the days of ACT UP, I know the semiotics of genderism well enough to put together a course on it, and I’ve seen every episode of Pose.
I know your comment was very well meant, and I am in no way criticizing you for it. It’s coming from the best of places. I just want to be very clear where I’m coming from as well.
It’s really funny to me that he chose “Ted”. When’s the last time you met a Ted who didn’t suck?
Hey… he’s only HALF Albertan, so only half of our dumbest region. Whoever his other parent was, that person bears the rest of the responsibility for this deeply concerning narcissist.
Sure, it’s just hilarious that “Lyin’ Ted” tries to pretend he is a Texan, when he was clearly born in Canada 🇨🇦
Alberta might as well be Texas.
Albertan here, not true!
…Alberta is the horrid love child of Texas, Florida, and Alabama
How many years has the Calgary Stampede been selling Trump grifter merch now? Gotta be close to ten years.
Texarse.
Joe Rogan packs his stuff again…
if texas did secede the federal US government would be blue for decades LMFAO. granted, texas is getting bluer by the day but still.
Most of the US military is mostly made up of conservatives, and red states are the only ones with some semblance of a manufacturing base as blue states nowadays are mostly IP farms. I dont think a hypothetical civil war will turn out as well as blue staters think.
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Manufacturing is usually urban, and last I checked that’s where most blue is. Farming and agriculture is red, sure.
Military is split, infantry probably skews red but the AF seems mixed and the Navy is pretty liberal in my experience.
Ok putting aside the obvious that 99% of US Military service members honor their oath to the Constitution and respect the chain of command serving the sitting President regardless of politics. Not least of which the DOD has been purging insurrectionist sympathisers the past few years.
So the brass tax of the US Military, our most valuable assets by a LOT are the US Navy. 2nd would be the USAF. Primary of which is arguably our Submarine force, followed by our sea warfare, then our air forces, and the rest of our nuclear arsenal.
Our largest sub base is in CT (blue).
The entirety of our carrier fleets are based in blue states - California, Hawaii, Virginia (blueish).
A significant portion of our nuclear stockpile is in Colorado (blue).
Anyway it all doesn’t matter because any insignificant numbers who would defect would be nowhere near the command of these critical assets. The only real annoyance of Texas seceding would be having to relocate NASA HQ lmao.
I’m highly doubtful that a second Civil War would be like the first. I’m more of the opinion that we’d see something along the lines of the Troubles in Ireland.
Maintaining a fighting force requires a ton of money and the loss of international markets in the Civil War hurt the Confederacy greatly. Inflation in the Confederacy shot through the roof. Paired with the Union’s successful blockade, the Union securing most rivers, and the Union pretty much destroying every bit of infrastructure in the Confederate States, the Confederacy had massive economic woes that plagued morale.
I’m really doubtful that any State wanting to secede wants to lose access to the US dollar as it would wreck their economy. I just don’t see it being the way the Civil War was fought as it would almost guarantee a repeat.
Wars are fought along a lot more lines than just the ones where bullets matter.
What if Texas just does a Texit (akin to Brexit)? Or is that not possible?
Not sure if US law has a provision for this. Brexit was relatively orderly because the EU made sure there’s a process for it.
Absolutely positive the US does NOT have a provision for this. We fought a little war about it once.
I think the only two ways this can happen are is the federal government agrees to the succession or succession by force (aka civil war).
I don’t know if it’s legally possible, but even if it was, it would never actually work. Texas is propped up with federal funding, our electric grid is slowly failing, and most people who wanted to stay a citizen of the United States would leave if they were able, which would completely fuck the job market, and leave mostly people who want to be Texans rather than Americans, and those people can’t run shit (hence the economicand infrastructure problems we already have). Or maybe I’m just talking out of my ass, idk. That’s my opinion as somebody who lives in Texas against their will.
Nope, it’s not possible. The only way it wouldn’t be treason is if all states agree, or if they start a revolution and are successful; every other attempt would simply be treason. Hence, one nation indivisible. I’m sure they know that; they just want to push as far as they can to make the political situation even more absurd in America. They want to widen the gap between the people. I don’t know who exactly profits from this situation, but it’s not the American people.
Here’s a video that explains it quite well: [Legal Egal] (https://youtu.be/1dhvry6E0jA?si=H62qIoiHzaLdJHQF)
Isn’t treason legal in the US nowadays?
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The south tried to secede and we fought a war about it, so no, pretty sure it’s not possible.
It’ll never happen
That wasn’t my question. It was whether it is theoretically possible or not. Brexit was a peaceful event with all its checks and processes in place.
last time they tried there was a civil war, that pretty much sums up how legal it is.
The EU had a documented process for a member state to leave. It was untested and messy, but it existed.
There’s no legal basis for a state to leave the US. Now it’s possible we let it happen despite this, with or without armed conflict, but it’s hard to imagine a hypothetical Texit not being messier than Brexit ever was
The GOP would never be able to win the electoral college without Texas. So that’s why it will never happen.
But maybe we can trick Abbot, he might be stupid enough to fall for it?
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In total war Warhammer, when playing as Karl Franz, what was the phrase that the advisors said as soon as the game began, when you had to deal with the secessionists at the south? Open dissent will not be tolerated or something? I thought of that when reading this post for some reason xD lol lmao
Please no. Some of us live here and like the US as it is. I would appreciate a change of state government, though.
You know all those migrants entering your state, fleeing the shit happening back home? Follow their example, pack up and move somewhere else. Texas being shit is nothing new and that won’t change.
Man, do you think I’d still be here if I had any choice? I’m broke as hell, and the situation in this state isn’t making it any better.
Those “illegal migrants” are broke as hell too. What’s stopping you that is not stopping them? You likely have an education, a profession, heck even just citizenship and US “work experience” compared to them. And the ability to take on more credit and communicate in English. Buy the cheapest bus or plane ticket out of there and don’t stop until you get north west or east.
The fact that I have a support system here that prevents me from dying. If I just pack up and move, I’m left with no home, no friends or family to rely on, no vehicle(which is the biggest reason I can’t move to begin with), and no idea where to even begin the process of getting my life back together.
Stop using immigrants’ suffering as an excuse to do nothing about people’s suffering in Texas. The correct response is not “just move”, it is “how can I help you organize and stand up to your government.”
I’d remind you that many of the people suffering and stuck in Texas are immigrats and their families.
This is a really weird point to argue about.
It’s not an argument.
It’s not an argument, it’s an example of other people that are in an even worse situation and it doesn’t stop them, it just shows that people saying “Oh shit’s so bad in Texas even for people like me who were born in the USA, I hate it :(” aren’t that uncomfortable after allz they just want to complain.
We can’t win it from the idiots if we all pack up and leave. I’m in this battleground state and I’m standing my ground. When Trump gets the nomination I’m going to do my best to remind the Republicans that I know that Trump has said he wants to become a dictator and uses the same blood purity bullshit racist rhetoric in speeches just like Hitler. I’m going to make them face the uncomfortable truth that a vote for Trump today is akin to a vote for Hitler in 1930s Germany.
I mean the parallels are uncanny at this point. The only thing missing is Trump actually getting jail time for attempting to overthrow democracy. At least Germany had the balls to put Hitler away before his rise to power.
The craziest part of the Republican party now is that they actually like Russia. What happened to them? Ruskie commies were the supposed mortal enemy of them until the fall of the USSR. now they want to help them? We gave the afghans a ridiculous amount of weapons and training to fight Russia and they used that later in terror attacks against us, but now we have the perfect opportunity to put the military industrial complex to use without putting Americans in the line of fire with a people that are highly unlikely to do the same as al queda. Oh but suddenly now its just too expensive to fund? Really this point needs to be driven home to all the military humping douches that would gladly suck the dick of anyone that has served in the military. Really what happened? We’re really living in a time where the party that supports the military industrial complex more is the Democrats?
Honestly we need a new government. We have the technology to implement direct democracy. Our constitution and government are horribly outdated and the checks in the system are being pushed to the limit in all branches of federal government. Our state is failing and if we continue the ultra rich .01% billionaire class will soon rule our nation openly with impunity. We desperately need a new progressive movement.
Ruskie commies were the supposed mortal enemy of them
As a Ruskie commie, I gotta say, the fact there exist people who praise Russia in the USA is absolutely fucking insane, you should really put them all into mental asylum because whatever is going in their head must be complete bonkers. I don’t mean that everyone should turn russophobe, of course, but modern Russia is objectively a complete shithole. It is a miracle that it’s still standing as a major global power, despite the government actions and post-soviet cultural heritage.
I’m sure there are plenty of good people in Russia. There are plenty of terrible governments around the globe with good people living under them. But the Russian state government really is terrible.
When I said that really I was mocking the Republicans. As I was growing up and even today if you even mention communism or socialism they have the same reaction. It’s why I really don’t understand them suddenly being against giving aid to Ukraine to fight Russia. We can do it in Afghanistan and it’s OK even though later al queda turn against the US, but now that we can openly fund a war against Russia where that isn’t an issue suddenly now they don’t want to? I don’t get it.
I don’t think most regular Republican voters praise Russia, but many Republican politicians are anti-Ukraine aid, and support policies that could help Russia. I think these politicians are somehow influenced by Russia (money? kompromat? just simply knowing Russia has effective disinformation and conspiracy theory networks?).
We can't win it from the idiots if we all pack up and leave.At this point I don’t believe the idiots can be convinced that their choice is bad unless it blows up in their face because everyone else left.
I don’t know if you’ve ever met a family where one kid got major drug/mental health issues that landed then in the street? After so many times trying to save them, I’ve never known a family that didn’t decide to just stop and wait on their child to be ready to save themself, otherwise it’s the rest of the family that would rip itself apart.
What I’m saying is, your State is full of people with mental health issues and it’s spreading and it might be a good idea to move out before they rip you apart. Hell, they’re already doing it to migrants, if you think they won’t come after “the commies that vote for the Democrats” at some point then you’re much more optimistic than I am.
Please go look up independent polls of single issue opinions in Texas, then go look up what voter suppression is.
Do you realize how many people you are telling to “just leave” regardless of means or ability to do so. It is not a viable “solution”. There are activists groups all over the state that are making changes, but they need help, not derision.
I understand but I disagree. Martin Luther King was starting to try to turn those same idiots before he died. I believe he really could have. There are other charismatic leaders that could today.
The billionaire class knows that as soon as people stop fighting left vs right and instead unite and organize bottom vs top that they’re completely outnumbered. Yes convincing the temporarily embarrassed millionaires in the US does seem impossible. But I won’t give up hope.
The previous presidential election was closer than ever in Texas. Sure the voting districts are gerrymandered to hell. But if people would just register and vote I believe the democrats could turn this state at both federal and state level regardless of how districts are drawn. Ted Cruz is up for election and I think this time he may also really lose. But if everyone sane just packed up and left then the idiots really do win.
“But why don’t the slaves just move?”
This is the sickest, most inhuman mindset. You don’t care about immigrants. You don’t care about the people in Texas. And you sure as hell don’t care about what is happening to immigrants in Texas.
The fuck you’re rambling about??? OP is a fucking slave now?
If I had to guess, I’d say that they were talking about how it’s barely affordable just to live in some places (wave slaves), and moving yourself and your family to an entire other state takes substantial time and money. Not to mention the emotional difficulty of leaving everyone and everything you know.
The same argument was made about recently freed slaves who had nowhere to go afterward, and how they should just move if they don’t like the continuing slavery-like treatment where they lived.
It does seem very cold and privileged from that perspective to tell someone to just up and leave, but this specific comparison seems unnecessarily impassioned
Nailed it on every front.
I thank you for taking the time to make a good faith untangling of my admittedly heated comment. I admire the patience you have to fully explain what I could not be bothered to articulate.
There’s not an ice cube’s chance in hell that Texas successfully secedes. Do you remember what happened the last time some States tried to secede? The Union is about eleventy billion times more powerful than it was in 1865.
Believe me, I’m aware. Not gonna stop the idiots from trying.
This would be so much fun to watch. They wouldn’t be able to take the US army with them, US army bases would be dismantled, nukes would be removed, Mexico would be like “fuck no” and have no trade with them, and the US, being their former Union, would also give them the finger. Thousands, plug not millions of people would cross borders there to either leave or join the shit hole (because fuck the liberal US government!) causing a huge outflux of knowledge and competence and a huge influx of rednecks.
Let me be clear though: this will never happen, because the politicians calling for this know damn well that they’d be fucked. They’re just riling their base with dumb but popular rhetoric.
I think if Texas pulled the trigger on secession, there’d be a few states that joined up with them, I don’t know that it’d be the entire US against just one state. If they seriously went for it, it’d probably be because they thought they had enough strength in numbers.
Unfortunately for them though, Republican-leaning states tend to have lower populations and wouldn’t really be able to provide much help. Florida I guess has a big population too, but not sure how helpful they’d be either with their demographics.
On the plus side though, we could potentially clear out alot of these MAGA idiots in office, assuming we actually started punishing people for insurrection.
The larger the state, the more internal resistance there will be. Not everyone in Texas or Florida will want to secede, and everybody can buy a gun. It’s one thing to gather some pride boys and meal team six larpers in the town square and march around for a bit, but it’s an entirely other thing to defend territory when you’re outnumbered, outgunned, and half the population is against you.
Oklahoma and Arkansas might be up for it, but there’s no way secessionists hold Miami or Austin.
So you’re saying Texas is big enough that they’d Yo Dawg their civil war?
2 issues there: the food and fuel for those cities move through the traitor parts of the state. Supply lines will be a major issue in the early weeks of any major event. In addition to that, those blue cities aren’t homogeneous just like their states aren’t, so there will be further subdivision past the metro line.
That works both ways, though, and the US Military is going to have significant logistics advantages. Coastal cities can resupply from boats, and Texas doesn’t have anti-aircraft defenses along the northern and western borders. In the event of a declared armed insurrection, it won’t last long enough for milk to go bad in the fridge.
Counter point: how will they pay for an army, the power grid, and supplies? Not to mention the fact that the local ar-15 touting, walmart-scooter-surfer isnt equipped to protect its supply lines from air superiority, let alone a global navy, when blockaded?
They will face the same issues that destroyed them 160 years ago, but 1000x the difficulty
Not just that, but the economic powerhouses are almost exclusively cities run by Democrats. Even deep red states have Democrats as mayors of their big cities. Texas would have a hard time funding a war if they were trying to do it on the backs of porcupines.
Nah, as someone who lives in Oklahoma, about half the younger generation has a functioning nervous system that would prevent that from happening. If we seriously tried to go any more red, there would be violence in the streets.
Republican states are all running in the red and I don’t mean the political red. They’re constantly getting financially bailed out by everyone else. It’s gross.
All their national guards will be federalized and fall in line the second they are told their lifelong benefits will be revoked if they disobey an order to remain in place.
Most of them are under 25s that joined for free healthcare and education they couldnt afford on their own. A fraction of a percentage are willing to fight and die in the name of a state, let alone one they dont live in 😂
Hi, I was an under 25 that needed Healthcare, and wanted a formal education.
I personally am of the belief that one has a duty to disobey any illegal order, and since this fits the bill,a sizeable number would disobey on that premise alone.
But I also know that’s not likely what does it, but benefits and pay.
I personally know several people who honestly think that “THREE PERCENT!” of the population could honestly stand against their parent country in modern day. And of course, they hold that belief purely from their “only 3% fought the British” and think that a colonial territory in 1776 would somehow translate to home country rebellion in 2024.
Could they do damage and be a nuisance, and create generational issues? Absolutely. Succeed and establish themselves as a respected sovereign nation, or conquer the federal government? Anyone who honestly thinks that’s feasible without the federal government saying “eh, whatever I don’t really care” is fooling themselves.
My time in the navy was more than enough to convince me that no state could ever pull that off, just on Naval power alone. Largest navy, 2nd largest air force, marines technically part of it (don’t ever tell them that unless you have their favorite flavor of crayon as an apology) and since the federal government knows literally every single thing about their off/Def capabilities are, it would be over before my hot chocolate gets cold.
It’s just political posturing.
- They don’t have a military. The National Guard units would come under the command of the President of the US, and any units in rebellion would know they’re facing courts martial for crimes that would be career limiting in that the penalties could include anything from life in prison to execution. It’s literally treason by the legal definition.
- Even if any significant number of troops were to choose to violate the law, modern war isn’t about riflemen. There’s a massive infrastructure required to keep tanks and planes running, not to mention things like carrier battle groups. Northrop and Raytheon aren’t going to be forfeiting USG contracts to sell missile systems to Ohio.
- Only the president has the nuclear codes, so nuclear blackmail can’t work either.
There isn’t going to be another civil war. Too much has changed between then and now in terms of military and economic organization. This is just Texas whacking off yet again, as they did under Obama and Bill Clinton.
The very real risks we’re facing are the election of Donald Trump - this is the biggest threat - and far right domestic terrorism. The former is an existential threat to the United States and should be treated as such. The latter is a law enforcement issue and should be treated as such. I suspect the Proud Boys are infiltrated all to hell as are the other major organizations, but there’s the potential for a significant amount of harm being done on a larger than 9/11 scale, although it’d be drawn out.
modern war isn’t about riflemen. There’s a massive infrastructure required to keep tanks and planes running, not to mention things like carrier battle groups.
The problem is that they don’t need to ‘win’ to get what they want; they just need to be enough of a nuisance to get concessions from the government. And both Ukraine and Gaza are showing us how effectively a bunch of people with rifles, drones and RPGs can frustrate an army. Sure, a lot of them will die, but I worry that it might be a sacrifice their leaders are willing to make if that means they get to hurt a lot of innocent people.
Only the president has the nuclear codes, s
try 0000000, that’s what it has been for most of the time I believe.
Except for that time it was CPE-1704-TKS
?
Ok try both just in case
That’s the combination I use for my luggage.
The missiles at night
Are big and bright
Launched at the heart of Texas
Anyway good luck being a large economy with no trade partners and ports blockaded.
