I say, keep them an extra week, and let the US gov pay the fine for not noticing on departure.
Four rounds of ammo? Give them a slap on the wrist and send them home. If it was a box of ammo I’d feel differently. How you get ammo in the luggage is beyond me, but at 4 it was obviously an accident, they are obviously not trying to smuggle weapons in at that point.
If those governors will do the same for weed, deal.
I have no problem with that.
They do.
Their country, their rules. One bullet can still kill someone. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
So can a fork. They didn’t travel with a gun apparently. Going to have to go shut down every Lowe’s that sells fertilizer, because you could rig it up and make it explode… Like a bullet without a gun.
What the fuck are you on about? Are people traveling with an entire Lowe’s warehouse in their fucking luggage?
Why the fuck would you bring ammo to begin with?
They traveled with their normal bag they go around with in regular life. Lesson: NEVER TRAVEL WITH THE BAG YOU CARRY AROUND DAILY because you will forget what’s in there.
Or just freaking empty it and only pack what you need. Its hardly difficult.
And yet, this keeps happening so it may actually be difficult.
Difficult. To check your travel bags for ammo.
How low do we set the bar before we blame the individuals?
I’ve never discovered ammunition loose in a bag or pocket. It’s been used or put away safely. Period. Why? Because duh.
Where’d I say that they weren’t responsible? I’m saying I can see how it could happen. It’s unclear why this bothers you.
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You keep ammo in your fucking purse?
I carry a pocket knife and a BIC lighter for utility needs. I have nearly forgotten to take out the pocket knife before leaving for the airport. I have also seen other stories like this, so I decided that my courier bag for travel is not the same one I use daily.
That’s fair - I’ve nearly lost good pocket knives in the same way… but it’s a long way from pocket knives to ammunition.
I don’t have or want a gun. I think they are stupid. I’m just saying that I get how it could happen.
Still isn’t a valid excuse.
I agree that it’s not. But adjusting what you do can protect you from this sort of thing.
Not carrying ammo on an international flight should not require adjusting. It’s common fucking sense.
And yet how many stories like this have we seen this year? A state legislator was arrested over this as well.
Again, common sense. These people were dumb enough to bring ammo on an international flight. These are the consequences.
And if a politician was dumb enough to do the same, finally, a politician faced consequences for their actions.
Or don’t carry guns wherever you go like a fanatical vigilante?! You Americans created a problem that doesn’t exist anywhere else in the world.
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That’s good advice, especially when traveling internationally.
Also when traveling to another country, always check the state department’s travel advisory for your destination(s).
Obviously this is the US state department, but it is still good info and I’d assume other countries have something similar.
Yo the State Department page for Iceland is fucking fire. It warns about pickpockets by telling travelers to be cognizant of “getting jostled”, especially in the capital on weekends because everyone gets drunk then and the jostling risk is higher. What a delightful warning. I’m convinced the pickpockets in Iceland are all the fox version of Robin Hood in Iceland.
Some of the State Department pages go hard as fuck though. Take a look at the one for Russia and watch any sympathy for Britney Grinier or that fucking Army dude evaporate into thin air. Libya’s page is wild and so is Syria’s, which actually says “yeah fam, we shut that fucking embassy down. if you’re idiot ass needs help hit up the Czechs”. Burma (Myanmar) goes pretty hard too, in addition to the risk of kidnapping, wrongful detention, arbitrary enforcement of local laws, etc., there’s the “your prolly gonna step on some uxo and splatter your fucking intestines on your travel partner my dude. stop. don’t go here.”
When you go into someone’s house, you follow their rules.
Yes and when you punish someone you use a reasonable level of punishment.
Take the ammo and put them on the next flight home. And tell them next time the punishment will be more severe
That’s absolutely what we do when people carry cocaine into America. We take it, escort them to the border, and firmly tell them not to do it again.
I don’t know if you were aware how ridiculous your statement was and were arguing in bad faith but if not… please do realize that smuggling is generally heavily punished.
If the situation occurred here in the states, the person would also be facing jail time. So your logic makes no sense.
How careless do you have to be to just have ammo lying around, unknown to you? Here’s a thought, T&C says they’ll release them if they lose their right to own a gun in the US?
If anything they’ll be celebrated by pro gun groups:
The National Rifle Association on Thursday urged the U.S. State Department to “use every means necessary to return U.S. citizens home to America.”
NRA: “Help us, government that we constantly talk about as an evil entity trying to take away our rights!”
nra are literally gonna get us into a war with the united kingdom aren’t they?
I’m guessing. These ppl are white
Fuck no. First rule of travelling is to check your fucking luggage. When you check your bags in you are asked if you packed it yourself and if everything in it is within the rules. It’s no one else’s fault two people are too fucking lazy or stupid to double check before checking their bags in.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Three U.S. governors this week asked Turks and Caicos to show mercy to Americans arrested on the islands as a Florida woman became the fifth U.S. tourist to be charged with ammunition possession.
The lawmakers’ plea came as the Royal Turks and Caicos Islands Police confirmed yet another American, 45-year-old Sharitta Shinise Grier of Orlando, Florida, was charged with one count of ammunition possession after two rounds were allegedly discovered in her luggage on Monday during a routine search at Howard Hamilton International Airport.
The National Rifle Association on Thursday urged the U.S. State Department to “use every means necessary to return U.S. citizens home to America.”
That changed in February when a court order required even tourists to potentially face mandatory prison time in addition to paying a fine.
TSA confirmed to CBS News its officers missed the four rounds of hunting ammo in Watson’s carry-on when he and his wife departed from Oklahoma City in April.
“To me, the solution here is to put more technology assists available to them,” Pekosek told CBS News senior transportation correspondent Kris Van Cleave, pointing to software that would be able to identify rounds of ammunition, pieces of firearms and various knives.
The original article contains 523 words, the summary contains 200 words. Saved 62%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
Americans complaining about the detention: “My countries’ laws are fine and the very standard of reason. All of you other countries should chill out!”
Does anybody know if these guys have oil?
they’re owned by the uk so they’ve already suffered enough without the us invading them.
It’s enough when the CIA says it’s enough
Yeah, no.
It seems that these Americans have discovered that they can’t just ignore the rule of law in other countries.
Let them deal with the consequences. Let them lose that American exceptionalism.
Nobody gets a free pass for breaking laws in America, so these Americans shouldn’t get a free pass for breaking laws in other countries.
I agree, but on the other hand 12 years? This sounds more like a 12 days crime…
The full story is that Turks and Caicos Islands has struggled against gun violence for years, so it passed much stricter gun laws in 2022. American tourists were violating this law by bringing guns and ammunition in their bags, but the courts in all of the previous cases recognized that prison was a harsh punishment for lapses like this, so they’d reduce the sentence to a fine. But it just kept happening, and perhaps in frustration, in February an appeals court ruled that the lower courts could not exercise that kind of discretion.
Given that those courts had been lowering the penalty to a fine, it seems unlikely that they’ll sentence people to long prison terms. (Any prison time does seem like an overreaction, but it also seems that the country got frustrated and wants to send a message about following its laws.)
yup. look at Haiti to see what lax gun controls lead to.
Please be trolling or bot. How could a sentient being write something this nonsensical…
Which word did you have trouble parsing sparky?
Loose ammo can creep into all kinds of nooks when a box spills open. I’ve found rounds tucked into the fold of a range bag years after the spill.
It’s exactly why my range bags and my travel bags nexer mix.
Loose ammo can creep into all kinds of nooks when a box spills open. I’ve found rounds tucked into the fold of a range bag years after the spill.
this is why you don’t pleasure travel with your bang bang kit. spent almost a decade in the military, travelling CONSTANTLY, from training to war zones and all over for technical stuff - never ever tried to bring ammo onto an aircraft.
That’s exactly what I’m fucking saying.
so you agree they didn’t have an excuse. cool.
I’m saying that people screw up and explaining a simple way to avoid the same mistake.
Here on Lemmy saying that you have bags just for carrying ammunition will get you labeled as a baby-killing MAGA extremist because you’re so into guns you accessorize with custom luggage for your murder-toys.
I’m explaining that those ammo bags and cases are there specifically to avoid accidents just like this - not as a tacticool fashion statement.
Here on Lemmy saying that you have bags just for carrying ammunition will get you labeled as a baby-killing MAGA extremist because you’re so into guns you accessorize with custom luggage for your murder-toys.
or you know, you could be one of the 2 million people on reserve, guard or active duty. I had bags for both and even with that, never, ever brought home live or blank ammo. it’s a sensible precaution if you’re around lots of loose ammo, but also, if you take the time to check your shit it really isn’t rocket science.
Are we talking about gummy bears or explosives?
If you let ammo lose around the house, you have MUCH bigger problems than travelling
Somebody goes on a hunting trip. Among other things they pack ammunition. The cardboard box of ammo breaks open and 100 rounds spill all over the inside of their bag. A year later they go on a different trip and bring the same bag with them, and there’s a loose round in the folds of the bag they don’t know about, but the dog sniffs it out.
That’s why I have separate bags and cases specifically for traveling with ammunition.
honestly they should be securing their fucking ammo better. cardboard boxes aren’t meant for travel. the packaging it’s sold in isn’t meant to stand up to abuse. stop pouring casings around your luggage and you’ll have an easier time with this.
You recognize the injustice of it, but still some individuals, who have not wronged anyone with their acts, should receive lengthy prison terms because you don’t like the perceived policies of the us.
Also let’s point out that there is absolutely zero evidence that these people are ‘ignoring’ the law. It seems they are just idiots who made dumb and careless mistakes. You just need to paint it way to justify the completely unjustifiable position of thinking individuals should be punished for the actions of their state.
Being an idiot doesn’t mean you’re exempt from the law. Who the fuck packs ammo to go to a different country?
Noone is saying they’re exempt from the law, only that it is clearly an injustice that someone go to jail for a decade for making a dumb mistake.
Do you really think the intent of the law is to send people to jail for accidentally carrying some ammo?
Tell me how you “accidentally” carry ammo in your luggage?
Can I ask that you first explain to me why you think this mother, while travelling with her daughter, was intentionally trying to smuggle 2 rounds of ammo out of Turks and Caicos? If you can come up with a reasonable explanation for this, I’d be happy to answer your question.
You first.
Obviously not a good faith question.
No, this has nothing to do with the US.
If I go to the US, I have to obey US law or go to jail. Similarly, if a US citizen goes to another country, they have to obey THEIR laws. If their laws say you go to jail when you break them, then what are you crying about?
This is the only objective point to illustrate. Laws aren’t monolithic across countries. We wouldn’t have countries if they were.
No one is saying they shouldnt have to follow the law because they are Americans. People are pointing out that this law is clearly unjust and ridiculous that someone would spend over a decade behind bars for making a dumb mistake. the law isn’t just regardless of what country it is. This is one of the times I have zero problem with the us throwing it’s weight around to protect it’s citizens around the world: to save them from ridiculous punishments for making a mistake.
Yeah say that again keeping in mind that the US regularly has killed civilians in the past, sometimes by mistake, sometimes as expected collateral. Sounds a bit hollow, then.
Why do so many people think it’s a good argument to say that because the us does some bad shit, otherwise innocent people should spend a decade in prison for making a mistake? It’s makes zero sense.
this law is clearly unjust and ridiculous
Don’t crime, don’t do time. Isn’t that what conservatives love to tell everyone?
SOVEREIGN COUNTRIES DON’T GIVE A FUCK WHAT YOUR OPINION IS, they have laws, you obey them or fuck off.
Idiots chose to visit these countries, and chose not to clear their bags of sensitive items that are literally prohibited in those countries.
they fucked around and are finding out.
Don’t crime, don’t do time. Isn’t that what conservatives love to tell everyone?
So do you say the same thing when some young black person goes to jail for a small amount of marijuana? I’m pretty liberal can see the injustice in both of these. I’m not sure why people have such a hard on for seeing these otherwise innocent people going to jail for a stupid mistake. It’s like being a conservative and cheering on black kids going to jail for possessing pot.
Why do you want to see them in jail so badly? Have you asked yourself this?
two points here:
one: it’s not the same as the black kid; these people are electing to travel out of the country. that kid is living in his environment. when you leave our nation for another, you accept the rules of that nation will apply to you. if you don’t want that, DON’T SPEND THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS TO TRAVEL THERE.
A better question: if these travelers are such freedom loving gun enthusiasts, why don’t they patronize countries that invite their tourism? HUH.
And two:
Want to travel? You don’t get to bring your own rules.
Try taking a small amount of marijuana to singapore.
Do I agree with their laws? NO. Do I fuck around and attempt to find out? No. I have better things to do with my life than languish in a jail or be executed for pot.
Holy shit, you’re actually trying to argue that it’s unjust to be punished for intentionally breaking a law, but perfectly fine to be punished with 10 years in prison for making a mistake.
You’re very blatantly playing the role of the racist conservative gleefully cheering on the imprisonment of a person from a group they don’t like, regardless of the justness of the reason, and you have no idea.
Do I fuck around and attempt to find out? No.
Again, you keep trying to paint it as them intentionally breaking the law. There is no indication of this. It seems just dishonest at this point to continually frame it this way. They didn’t “attempt to find out” they fucked up. Why is this so hard for you to admit?
This isn’t punishment for actions of their state lol, this is punishment for their own actions.
The state didn’t tell them to put bullets in their luggage.
This isn’t punishment for actions of their state lol, this is punishment for their own actions.
Yes, I understand this, and it’s not what I said at all. Not even remotely.
You just need to paint it way to justify the completely unjustifiable position of thinking individuals should be punished for the actions of their state.
Let me break it down for you:
Top level poster was saying noone in the us gets a break, so these people from the us should not get a break.
They think that because the us has bad policies, these people should be punished.
Their position had less ( or even nothing ) to do with whether these actions should be punishable because they themselves are bad, their position is about them being punished as some kind of pay back for us policy.
Nope, this is a deliberate mischaracterization of the argument.
It goes like this:
1 - you’re not supposed to fly with loose ammo.
2 - many countries prohibit you visiting with ammunition.
3 - if you break a foreign nations laws, that nation can and will imprison you.
not calculus, it’s pretty fucking simple.
I can easily follow that logic and I get it. The whole point is that the poster is arguing they deserve to be punished by arguing that people would be punished by the us system. What the us system does or does not do has zero bearing on whether this is just.
Nobody gets a free pass for breaking laws in America
You might want to check your notes on that one…
I had assumed airport agents put the ammunition in the luggage to get bribes.
I had too, but apparently that is not the case.
People downvoting don’t realise this has happenned in some countries: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninoy_Aquino_International_Airport_bullet_planting_scandal#:~:text=The Ninoy Aquino International Airport,Ninoy Aquino International Airport (NAIA)
So? It’s still irrelevant here.
That’s not necessary, Americans unnecessarily carrying guns everywhere happens all the time
They weren’t carrying guns.
No one said these people were.
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How about the governors suggest that their residents don’t travel internationally with ammunition?
It is very unlikely these people were carrying ammo.
Per the article ‘Four of the detained Americans have admitted they brought the ammunition — but by mistake.’
they admit to it.
Ryan Watson, 40, of Oklahoma, a father of two who was most recently arrested for unknowingly having ammo in his bag on April 12, remains on the island. Both men previously told Fox News Digital that they had the ammo in their bags from prior hunting trips.
Michael Lee Evans, 72, pleaded guilty to having ammunition in his bag on April 24, according to local news outlet the Turks & Caicos Sun. His sentencing hearing is scheduled for June 18.
why are you fabricating bullshit?
I’m not fabricating anything. I’m skeptical that a bunch of irresponsible gun nuts keep getting caught in a nation no irresponsible gun nut has ever heard of, while somehow avoiding capture everywhere else.
Its also strange to me that people on a site all about ACAB when it comes to their own nations are not throwing that skepticism to a nation they also have likely never heard of.
You stated: It is very unlikely these people were carrying ammo.
they admitted to carrying the ammo.
look buddy just because you’re not familiar with the turks doesn’t mean it’s not real. your lack of experience and geography knowledge doesn’t poof it out of existence.
https://jalopnik.com/a-gun-is-stolen-from-a-car-every-9-minutes-in-america-1851472717
https://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local/article/san-antonio-guns-stolen-cars-18570908.php
you really think the gun nuts put that much thought into storage and care for their firearms and associated material huh?
what a buffoon.
I like that I reference the fact that irresponsible gun owners suddenly flocking end masse to a place they wouldn’t have hears of turns into you accusing me of having never hears of that place.
Like… What? Okay.
I get it, you like to argue on the internet and being mr. Smarty pants is super important to you. But at least make sense.
I like that I reference the fact that irresponsible gun owners suddenly flocking end masse to a place they wouldn’t have hears of turns into you accusing me of having never hears of that place.
en masse.
not end.
why the fuck would people flock to a place they’d never heard of? do you stop to read the shit you’re writing?
I don’t like to argue on the internet, I like to point out how stupid, inane, and poorly constructed your arguments are. I’m sorry, but I don’t have the time or crayons to draw you a picture so it’d make sense to you.
I think you should be taking your anger out on your mother, not randos on the internet, or therapy.
Or go back to reddit. Have a good night.
Dude. They admitted they had the ammo.
I mean there was some Nazi guy caught masturbating to gay porn and his Nazi supporters now claim it’s the Jew provocation. Do you really expect a different outcome here?
It’s part of the Jewish agenda to turn our white supremacists gay.
Happens all the time!
“I have never heard of this country, therefore any arrest made there is a conspiracy.”
Your logic is flawless, way to go
…i never said that.
Then how did they find ammo and why have several admitted they brought the ammo and “forgot”?
Sounds like you’re full of shit.
Why is this not happenong at the same rate elsewhere?
People also admit to many things they never did while in custody.
Something fishy is happening here.
People also admit to many things they never did while in custody.
Do people? Is that the thing?
Okay. Um, while in custody I never … hopped on one leg.
But why is admitting to things we’ve never done in custody a thing?
I do not ageee with the poster you respond to, but false confessions are a serious problem. Often (in the US) they arise from hours long interrogations without a lawyer, in which police are allowed to lie about the evidence they have. This leads to situations where a suspect feels like they are done for even if they didn’t commit a crime. When a plea deal is then put in front of them which they are told would be much preferable to getting sentenced without it, they sign and admit to a crime they never committed. It shouldn’t happen but is a thing that unfortunately does occur.
That said, I doubt it being the case here.
This happens in other Caribbean countries too. If you were to fly to Bermuda or Grenada you’d get in trouble for carrying this stuff.
Yeah, the Brits (since it is a British territory) have been trying to frame every single American to put them in jail since the rebellion!
or americans just are arrogant and think they’re untouchable. see fay, michael and singapore.
see fay, michael and singapore.
I almost forgot that asshole. No one outside the US thought the intervention was warranted. Case in point: the Swiss vandal in 2010
Would America just release tourists who broke their laws?
What is an American law that’s equivalent to this?
oh I can think of tens of thousands of people imprisoned for just holding a tiny bit of weed. bet some of them were mexican, canadian and otherwise foreign citizens, do you think that gave the local yokels pause in putting them in jail? charging them?
LOLOL
Yeah, what about their Second Amendment Rights in other countries? /s
No, not that at all. What they did is unlawful in the US as well.
Bring along a Kinder surprise egg into the US and see how understanding and friendly the US legal system is to people who made a honest mistake.
You can bring them back with no issue. It has never been an issue, just a regulatory prohibition on selling them.
Better example: drugs which are legal in other countries but not the US.
What would US law enforcement do if they found you with illegal (in US) drugs, eh?
They sure as hell wouldn’t be letting you off with it.
Marijuana maybe? I don’t know how strict the guns laws are there but that’s the closest I can think of.
Copyright infringement, DRM circumvention, and “hacking.”
See: Aaron Swartz
On January 6, 2011, Swartz was arrested by Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) police on state breaking-and-entering charges, after connecting a computer to the MIT network in an unmarked and unlocked closet and setting it to download academic journal articles systematically from JSTOR using a guest user account issued to him by MIT. Federal prosecutors, led by Carmen Ortiz, later charged him with two counts of wire fraud and eleven violations of the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act, carrying a cumulative maximum penalty of $1 million in fines, 35 years in prison, asset forfeiture, restitution, and supervised release.
Weed is legal in Canada, illegal in the US.
They should be locked up, maximum sentence. American idiotic laws don’t apply, they are just like everyone else. Criminals that broke the law and smuggled ammo in. Ignorance is not an excuse of the law, American justice system loves that phrase.
Happened in the Philippines around 6-8 years ago, nefarious airport security would intentionally put ammo in a victims luggage with the intention of shaking them for bribe. It lead travellers to wrap their luggage in plastic prior to departure. As far as I know they targeted locals I don’t remember foreign victims.
this is not a shakedown. the perpetrators admitted it and pled guilty. it’s stupid american guntwats who can’t keep track of their sensitive items.
fuck them. keep them locked up forever. fafo and they’ll learn americans aren’t the centre of the world.
They are idiots, but you just said to abduct people beyond written law in their country and hold them against their will. I don’t think the UK will support that idea very much. They should face the time for the crimes they did, but “keep them locked up forever” is some backwards ass views clearly not focusing on prisons to be for recovery, just simply imprisonment for life… When no one was actually harmed from their actions. Really it shouldn’t be much of an issue. Pulled over for going over the speed limit but not harming anyone. “Keep them locked up forever”
Jfc you shouldn’t have ammo in luggage. Not surprised they were arrestex6
How arrogant of those American governers to assume they can just dictate how other countries deal with people smuggling weapons into their country (even if those people claim to have done it as a casual accident).
You’re naive if you think it won’t work.
How so??
Impact to tourism notwithstanding, Turks and Caicos imports 75% of its goods from the US, which also supplies 99% of its petrol. They’re not putting anyone in jail for 12 years because the person accidentally had two pistol rounds in their carry-on, let alone a citizen of their biggest trade partner.
20 American doctors starving and dehydrated in Gaza, Israel hitting their supply trucks being shipped in. If the U.S doesn’t care about 20 doctors, they surely don’t care about a few numbnuts
You got it backwards. It’s not about the people - it’s about the principles! What do you think the US cherishes more - medicine or guns?
The US, and certainly it’s government, is not a monolith.
The weird thing is that it’s not like loose ammo is dangerous. It doesn’t just “go off”.
