Carnists well do anything to eat meat
I knew one of you would show up in this post and make it all about you
This post isn’t about you
Your right it’s not. It’s about your poor health.
Oh come on veggist, I eat you and you eat me, in a consensual lab grown way.
And I am just kidding, not even sure I am on board with this, i think eating lab grown cow meat would be less upsetting.
It’s just frustrating. Despite study after study showing that consumption of meat leads to poor health, people keep doing it. It just reminds me of being an addict. Other people saying this causes less harm to other sentient beings are right I’ll conceded to that but based off everything I know, the consumption of meat isn’t an act of self love. I may just be sensitive because my mother is dying of stomach disease. Beans and rice vegan steps off soap box
Oh look cherry picked studies
If you look hard enough you can find any study to support your claim with enough word crafting
You need to learn what cherry picking is. These are studies funded by governments. Not meat packing corporations.
But I’m sure I can post some PFAS studies you can deny too.
Could we genetically engineer a synthetic meat cell line that is healthy enough to eat?
We’re humans, we can do anything we put our minds to. I’m not a geneticist nor nutritionist so there’s no way I could tell you for certain. But the more I think of this question the more Jeff Goldblum’s line from Jurassic Park comes to mind.
“Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether they could, they didn’t stop to think if they should."
Haha but it’s yummy! This would be the easiest way to get rid of agricultural meat production for ethical and environmental reasons.
Of course for many species of cows it will be an extinction event.
Yeah and cocaine is fun to do too. Doesn’t mean it’s healthy.
It wouldn’t end animal agriculture. It would just become the vinyl record collectors version of meat consumption.
It saddens me that you believe the only reason for cows existence is because of humans.
If I may suggest donating some time at your local animal sanctuary to meet a cow. Much like dogs or cats they each have very different personalities. They can be very cuddly if they get to know you. Like most herbivores they just want to have good vibes and enjoy their life.
Sorry that was a bit hyperbole it would never be an all or nothing. You’d always have limited grass fed animal husbandry for milk and cheese. But my thought was that there should be some sort of rewilding effort for cows or Buffaloes or whatever their wild form even is or was in Europe.
And I was thinking in the way of harm reduction which is a tactic for drug. You won’t convince a majority of people to not want meant so the demand will be there. So practically artificial meat is the only way.
Oh no, meat grown in a way that doesn’t harm sentient beings! How awful!
It’s unethical because you can’t safely perform muscle biopsies at home, thus it is a violation of the duty to care, and culturing stratified squamous epithelium and calling it meat(and steak no less) is lying, which is a fundamental ethical violation.
But couldn’t you just grow one steak and then take cells from it to grow more?
I think you would get the copy of a copy problem. DNA in cells degrade overtime. I think with lab grown meat this is much worse than normal human aging.
Good point, I don’t know much about this sort of thing.
Cells were collected from a cheeck swab. And it’s not a real product, it’s an art project.
Yeah I know. Cheek cells are stratified squamous epithelium.
I would be worried about disease first, but if it’s your own cells maybe there’s less chance? Prions are terrifying
My second question would be taste
If there’s no disease and it tastes good then fuck yeah all in
Those cannibals who got prions ate human brain.
Theoretically, if you don’t consume any of spine or nervous system, you should be good.
I can’t grow me a spine steak?
What even is the point then
Unless you already have prions from CJD you can’t catch Kuru by eating yourself. You have to actually eat someone who already has prions to catch it. Even then you have to eat nervous system tissue to be at a significant risk.
Fuck, I’ve always wanted to eat human meat anyway. I’d kill for a sample like this. I don’t care about morals here. I’m a vegetarian. I just want to know. If my buddy was like “ayy we’re eating Dan from accounting’s arm tonight” I’d be there with no questions asked. The police can sort it out.
I don’t want to eat human meat, but I don’t mind if you kill that asshole from accounting.
Fun fact : Human meat is an excellent source of protein 🤓
I’d kill for a sample like this.
oh boy do I have something to tell you
You can eat placenta, if you really want to eat human.
Thats what im thinking- i rarely eat meat but how could i pass up ethical long pig? Im too curious
I mean, if you’d kill for that you don’t need the kit.
fetal bovine serum (FBS)… is derived from the blood of calf fetuses after their pregnant mothers are slaughtered by the meat or dairy industry.
I did not know this… and after reading the wiki, I found it rather disturbing…
The first stage of the production process for FBS is the harvesting of blood from the bovine fetus after the fetus is removed from the slaughtered cow. The fetus dies from the lack of oxygen by remaining in the protective environment of the uterus for a minimum of 15–20 minutes after the cow is dead…
That sounds like some Dark Souls/Evangelion shit. “Harvest the blood of the fetus after pulling it from its dead mother”
Me in the lab needing to use FBS for routine cell culture media…
So what do you think when you work with HeLas?
The whole point of this art project is to suggest that using expired human blood serum is acceptable for growing lab meat btw. That’s what they used to culture the cheek cells. Took them several months to grow that amount though and cheek cells have very different requirements to muscle cells, so I dunno why they were presenting it as an option. Guess that’s why it was an art project and not a presentation at a conference.
soylent me?
is it made of meeple?
To me that’s more ethical than killing of billions of animals, and the latter is considered ethical. I wouldn’t do that because that would feel weird, but not unethical.
I wouldn’t do that because that would feel weird,
I mean, it’s basically homemade spam. It’s kinda weird.
To me that’s more ethical than killing of billions of animals, and the latter is considered ethical.
I think most people would actually consider factory farming unethical, they just put the blame on the producers for treating animals like shit. And the producers are locked into a race to the bottom for competitive prices, so they’d blame the customers/market conditions.
There’s bacteria that grow in the roots of legumes that are capable of capturing gaseous nitrogen. That nitrogen makes its way to the soil, where the trees can suck it up to produce protein, like sunflower seeds. I eat those and by the time I urinate and die the nitrogen has been so concentrated within me that I burn a small hole in the ground for the fungus, sun, and time to decay and heal.
If I could photosynthesize the carbs needed to bootstrap this operation I would. If I could plant a piece of myself and feed it rainwater and atmospheric nitrogen to grow a steak I would. If I could leave behind shelter I wood.
urinate and die
Was this all an elaborate ruse to employ a shitty pun?!!
I wooden put it past them
I would try this in a fucking heartbeat
Ethically sourced human? Same. Sign me the fuck up. Not for a subscription or anything, but I really want to try it.
Fuck yeah, I might lose weight!
It’s not like they can check what kinds of cells you put in. No need to made this weird by cultivating human meat.
The kit likely is optimized for human muscle cells and might not perform as well with other human cells or muscle cells from another species or even not at all. The other question is where would you find livable cells from a cow or whatever that you wanted to cultivate. I doubt that your refrigerated steak has viable cells.
I don’t think the requiernments for mammalian muscles cells are that different from each other. It might be optimized for a specific animal, but I’m pretty sure it will still work in general or it would only take very small adjustments to make it work for a different mammal.
The other question is where would you find livable cells from a cow or whatever that you wanted to cultivate
Yeah, you’d need a live or very recently deceased cow. But it should be easy enough to obtain some samples before or during regular slaughter. And once this method is viable and widespread enough there will probably “biopsy cows” that just get pricked for cell samples all day.
But it should be easy enough to obtain some samples before or during regular slaughter.
It’s a DIY kit for layers to play around at home. I don’t know where I would obtain samples before or during regular slaughter for my 49,99€ kit from Amazon tbh
Ask a local farm or butchers shop for example.
But yeah, it’s probalby more of a toy and I doubt that growning your own steak at home will catch on. You need industrial scale meat cultivation if you want to compete with the current convinence and price of meat.
Ok that makes sense. I live very urbanized and unfortunately without books and talks my kid would probably grow up thinking meat grows in plastic packaging, so a local farm or butcher is rather out of reach. I’m probably also approaching this more from a laboratory perspective than necessary.
I also hope lab grown meat catches on, but we need a) a really good cell line to not always have to take fresh cell samples from living animals and b) a sustainable and plant based alternative to FCS. I think scaling it up wouldn’t even be such a huge problem eventually. What I am much more surprised by is that so many people have an ick with lab grown meat. How is this grosser than eating a dead animal or insects?
Don’t you get prions from canibalism
Also if this costs less than supermarket meat I could buy some beef and clone it
Yes and no. You get prions from eating a person that’s also infected with prions. Basically if you eat cloned meat of yourself it should be fine as you either already have prions, or you don’t already have prions. Prions manifest as either CJD if you got it naturally or Kuru if you got it through canibalism.
Is muscle tissue even infectious? (Especially when grown from a few cells) Don’t you need to eat some brain or spinal cord?
Eating brain/spinal cord is not required to contract a prion disease; prions can also be spread through any biological medium where protein material is located, for instance, blood. This is the reason why those who have CJD or other TSEs in their family are unable to donate blood.
This is also how vampires became extinct.
The blood relative thing is kind of silly, it should be mothers only but it also bans you if your father contracted it after you were born.
The reason for that actually makes sense. It’s rarely clear how and when someone contracted a prion disease at time of diagnosis, and often it is unclear which specific prion disease a person has. While it may seem that a father contracted a prion disease after you were born, it could also be that the father has an inheritable prion disease that you too may have inherited.
I think the brain is only where the concentration of prions is highest and therefore the most dangerous part of an infected person to eat, but you can also get it from other body parts. But I’m no expert… haven’t eaten anyone in years actually.
Yes, it can pass through muscle/meat. That’s what was getting people with CJD and possibly this zombie deer stuff.
Is this considered vegan meat?
As vegan as it gets, I’d wager. You need to take an initial sample to cultivate the meat from, which obviously isn’t vegan, but to my knowledge, the rest doesn’t require any further samples
Yes is it, as no animal is harmed:
“Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of animals, humans and the environment. In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals.”Can’t speak for this specific kit but in general: A big problem with lab grown meat and cell tissue culture is that to grow cells in vitro you usually need fetal calf serum. That’s a liquid from, well, cow abortions basically, that contains a plethora of different molecules like growth factors and mediators. As far as I know, there is no vegan alternative to this yet. We are talking about a liquid here whose composition is really complex, so it’s a really big task to create a plant based FCS alternative that performs just as well.
Tldr: probably the set contains a liquid made from cows.
Likely depends on what’s needed/used as feed
What about this post has anything to do with vеgаnism BudgetBandit
Looks cool. Will take a chance to try and grow my own steak, but i probably wont eat it.
Wait. Isnt this infinite food? Cut off 1cm2 of skin, grow a steak, and ‘free’ dinner? Lets actually read thw article.
You would have to “feed” it nutrition while it grows into the steak, so not infinite and not free unfortunately
hummm delicious cancer meet
I am going to say that it’s unethical for someone to eat others or themselves, lab grown or not, because the community members in a society want to 1) curtail or reduce suffering and 2) increase ways to promote better judgment and impulse controls.
1 - We treat cattle and animals for food production with such contempt and disdain and cruelty, and if we were to start eating humans (lab grown, self-eating or otherwise) we’ll treat humans the same. Delegating some humans to be eaten, lab grown (by choice or not) or otherwise, is going to create a lot of societal strife and suffering. How does self-eating contribute to suffering? See reason 2.
2 - People who consume others or themselves cannot be guaranteed to be devoid of sociopathic characteristics. Even if someone is just eating themselves, it blurs the line between food source and community member.
I think it is the same as people who smoke or cut themselves to relieve stress—yes, whatever you’re doing is your choice and seemingly only affecting you. However, the second hand smoke/scarring in the case of the self-cannibal is their poor judgment and poor impulse control. We expect society members to exercise better judgment and impulse control because the way they think impacts everyone around them.
Why does self-cannibalism seem like poor judgment? Think again of someone who cuts themselves to relieve stress. The way you treat your yourself, including your body, is a reflection of your state of mind. Only a narcissist would say that they’re in complete control of their mind, including the subconscious part, and so their self-eating will be harmless and not result in any bad behavior towards others, ever. We already know vegetarians have more empathy than meat eaters: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/animal-emotions/201207/brain-scans-show-vegetarians-more-empathic-omnivores
As mentioned, we have historically always treated animal sources of nutrition with disdain, contempt and cruelty. If someone feels that it’s okay for them to eat themselves using lab grown meat, I worry what kind of psychological interplay justifies that decision for them. Do they hate themselves? Is this self-harm? What will their interactions with other people be like after doing this?
So, yes autonomy and self-actualization is an inherent right of cognitively advanced beings. But they lose that right the second it starts impacting someone else’s self-actualization.
In short, even self-cannibalism is unethical because society wants members who are not sociopaths and who won’t contribute to the suffering of other members.
How is this any way self-harm? To be clear we aren’t talking about growing a whole person here as you seem to be confused. We are talking about a few cells in a petri dish or vat. This is all just psychobabble nonsense. You’re the one here who shouldn’t be in polite society.
How can you qualify that it’s not self harm? Maybe we need to do brain scan study of what it looks like for people who cut themselves vs those who eat meat grown from their cells.
Because it doesn’t physically harm me to do so. Cutting yourself is physically painful and damaging to your body. Growing cells in a pitri dish to save on dinner is neither of those things.
Self harm isn’t just physical though, https://www.healthline.com/health/emotional-self-harm
Okay now you’ve really lost me? How in the hell is that emotional self harm? If anything I’d take it as a self-compliment that I taste good :p
So, if self-cannibalism of lab grown meat is allowed, then cannibalism of lab grown meat (so cells from other people) would also be allowed.
Think of how we treat other sources of animal derived foods, it’s pretty shitty and cruel treatment. In this case, the person chooses to eat self sourced or other person sourced lab grown meat because eating a real person would be murder, and cutting themselves up would be physical self harm.
The question is what is the underlying psychological justification for them deciding to eat lab grown human meat. Is it that they’re avoiding physical pain and murder? Lab grown animal meat is there to substitute for animal meat. But what’s the justification for lab grown human meat? Novelty? Taste? Psychological issues? How do we trust this persons judgement for themselves and others?
The issue is that human societies veered away from cannibalism for social issues, and so how do we trust those people who would engage in some form of cannibalism, even if it’s their own lab grown cells.
Some context which also gives European views on first encounters and how the social revulsion to this idea was established https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/making-of-an-imperial-polity/cannibalism-and-the-politics-of-bloodshed/D4D05AE81BBADD074FBCDC09504605D3
I fail to see how we treat meat animals as relevant. No ones going to be caged and mistreated because there’s no reason to.
The fact your eating human meat isn’t enough to cause psychological issues when no one was harmed, and the idea that it does is fucking laughable.
Unless someone is actually mistreated, which again no practical reason to, as getting a microscopic sample to grow from is harmless. Where would this psychological damage come from? Because it would remind us of the animals we did kill and eat? That’s fucking goofy. The psychological harm of cannibalism IS FROM THE PHYSICAL HARM BEING DONE TO THE OTHER PERSON. NOTHING ELSE. THATS IT.
Eating something that harmlessly grew from my body isn’t going to impose psychological damage, nor does it imply I lack empathy for myself or those around me.
There’s ethically no difference between eating your own lab grown meat, and eating your own boogers. There’s ethically no difference between someone eating your own lab grown meat, and someone eating your boogers.
It doesn’t automatically put me in the same class as livestock. I’m not undermining my humanity, nor does it mean I don’t care for myself. Your hang ups are your own. Get the fuck over yourself.
This almost reminds me of the weird psychosexual hangups incels have but for vegans. Imposing meaning where there is none, Jesus fucking Christ dude.
Stop brigading posts nifty
People will eat meat if they want to, you can’t stop them and at the end of the day brigading annoys people and disrupts social media
It’s the exact same thing you and your group did on reddit
Just stop brigading posts and stop mass downvoting any posts that contain meat, I’ve looked at the vote ratios of posts in food subs enough to know that it is being done
What the fuck are you on about? I am only on lemmy, and don’t use any other boards.
You’re the one lying about me and brigading.
Maybe you’re a stooge sent by big-Cannibalism to help make this tech popular? See, I can make baseless claims too 🙄
This is exactly what I tell people who want to drink their own cum. Like, how can society trust you, man.
Ladies and gentlemen, it apprars we have a winner of the most braindead take award!
