RIP. This is just such a sad story. I hoped things went better. I hoped she would recover. I guess the guy mentioning the 75% burn was not survivable was right this time.
That’s awful
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Women would be so much better off with out us.
Some, not all, hopefully not most.
But Jesus, so many of us suck so hard.
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Great, start with yourself
Yeah, the bear argument applies here. The bear would just kill you. Man would make you suffer.
“us” speak for yourself buddy but I have never lit a woman on fire and never will. We all would be better off without violent assholes regardless of their gender.
How about we instead keep on teaching men healthy masculinity and create the foundations for a better society rather than keep “banning” everything bad.
An all women/men world would still have evil perpetrators.
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I terrify my wife. When she comes home I hide next to the fridge and I say “BOO!” and I get her just about every time. Then I hug my kids and finish making dinner.
Your pity party here is a self-fulfilling prophecy and screams white knight and all that. You can do better, get out of your head.
News only reports like this and it skews peoples perceptions. For example, I’m a guy. This last weekend I took my friend and all her kids (all girls) out for amusement park, festival, swimming, gifts, and any food they wanted out weekend before school starts. I paid for everything. You won’t find it in the news, Why’d I do it, because they moved to a new city far away from their friends so I wanted to start all the girls on a very happy note for school starting.
No one owes you examples. Men are not inherently evil and women are not inherently good. People, all people, have the capacity for both good and evil.
WTF is wrong with people.
men*
Edit: lotta downvotes from men claiming to be leftists but bury their head in the sand when it’s ever mentioned that violence, especially murder against women, is mostly committed by men. If your solidarity abruptly halts at issues like this and you call yourself a leftists, you’re only kidding yourself and other sexist men.
Thanks for confirming beyond a doubt that Lemmy is just another “leftist” spaced filled with sexist men. Gross and so disappointing.
Most of the replies you’ve received are trying to explain that saying “men” are what is wrong with “people” is a generalisation that is unhelpful and harms all men.
It’s true that the perp is a man, and it’s also true that most violence against women is perpetrated by men. However, that doesn’t mean there’s a causal link between being a man and assaulting women.
It’s much more likely that the addressable causes underlying this “man’s” actions are poverty, lack of mental health support, and cultural norms including but not limited to religion.
When you suggest that “men” are the cause of what happened to this athlete, it’s not surprising that men will be offended. To thereafter frame the obvious response as sexist is projection, frankly.
Men literally prey after women. When its done right its called, what, lust? Love?
A lot of men are drawn to women as their natural state.
Its not a crazy thing to say that women should be cautious around men in general is it?
Disingenuous at best.
People need to be cautious around people.
The vast majority of men do not “prey” on anything, including women.
I’m sorry I just don’t feel very unsafe around women. Why should I? The cast majority of violence is committed by men against other men.
I’m a man, and I’m wary of other men, who often attack men over women, or their ego, or their fragile state of mind has been disrupted momentarily or whatever other trivial reason men feel justified attacking people.
Driving in my car = men are more likely to participate in road rage At work = men are more likely to commit violence at work than women At home = men are most likely to break and enter occupied homes In public = men are most likely to be the perpetrator of a public mass shooting public shooting.
I’m a man and I agree with women. Men often react violently when angry, and women simply do not. Whether thats a power thing, and if women were bigger it would flip, but the point is, if you are generally worried about your safety, then you don’t need to worry about women very much at all, and you need to worry about men very much so.
Remember these are generalizations, anyone is capable of anything and women have killed men before and women have committed violence before.
Everything you’ve listed is an absurd over statement.
often attack men over women, or their ego, or their fragile state of mind has been disrupted momentarily or whatever other trivial reason men feel justified attacking people.
This is simply not the reality I live in. I’ve never known someone to attack someone over a woman, nor their fragile state of mind?
Driving in my car = men are more likely to participate in road rage At work = men are more likely to commit violence at work than women At home = men are most likely to break and enter occupied homes In public = men are most likely to be the perpetrator of a public mass shooting public shooting.
I’ve certainly never experienced any of this and while mass shootings and robberies do occur they’re so rare that being a victim of such a crime is not a tangible risk.
Honestly you’re more likely tripping over your shoelace and dying than any of these things actually happening.
You are arguing crime isnt common, I’m arguing that WHEN IT DOES HAPPEN its done by men.
Since this is a conversation about who commits violence most often, it doesnt make sense to appeal to the fact that most people rarely encounter violence.
For the record, I agree, people shouldn’t be worried in general about this stuff. For those that are in situations where they are at risk, they should be careful around men, period.
Are you arguing its stupid for a women to take preventative measures or protect themselves in all cases?
Honestly you’re more likely tripping over your shoelace
Ladders. Ladders are the #1 killer. And stupid shit on top of that, like taking something down from a high shelf.
This is so fucking ignorant, it’s like you’ve never actually spoken to a woman before in your life (and no, the nice lady that delivers your chicken tenders doesn’t count).
When men leave the house, the worst thing we walk around in fear of is ridicule and rejection. Women (rationally) fear for their personal safety. All of the time. You and I cannot even grasp what that must do to a person mentally.
If you even suggest that this isn’t the case, go fuck yourself. I have nothing more to say to you. Some idiotic bullshit doesn’t need more of a platform on the internet than it already has, destroying the minds of young men.
Edit: I fear for the women of this country given the responses I’ve gotten here. Gross.
Sure mate.
It’s patently absurd to suggest that all women fear for their personal safety “all of the time” when they leave the house.
Sure, there’s a very few places in the world where that may be true, but it certainly is not generally true.
I think your comment says more about you than it does about me.
Speak to a woman. If they let you. Ask them.
When men leave the house, the worst thing we walk around in fear of is ridicule and rejection.
Do you live in a cartoon? Seriously, this is complete nonsense. I worry about my personal safety very often, when an environment presents certain risks (e.g., getting robbed, mugged etc.). It’s true that I don’t generally fear to be sexually assaulted by a woman, but to say that men don’t (need to) worry about their personal safety is completely absurd.
You sound like you need to see a doctor then.
When the dynamic you’re alluding to is done right you have the (typically, not always) woman wanting to be chased as much as the man is chasing. It’s the rider saying “oooh, rollercoaster, you’re so intimidating and scary, toss me around” while the rollercoaster is saying “ooooh, you like curves and airtime don’t you I’ll hold you fast and secure”.
Big femcel vibes. Yikes
Nicely put.
The article mentions a land dispute. Kenya has a murder for land problem.
It takes many forms, including witch hunting - the spread of witch hunting in sub Saharan Africa mostly an excuse for land grabs against the weak. Old man, single women, get targeted by gangs under the guise of witch hunting. It is also fueled by Christian churches vying for power against traditional religion in the region.
Sorry, went off track a bit. But even though it was her ex who did it, it is very likely a land dispute rather than misogyny behind the horrid crime.
No.
SWING and a MISS
The vast majority of the time a woman is murdered, it’s at the hands of a man. Yes.
I’m going to bed but there’s countless other studies that show the same trend not just in the USA but in countries across the world. This paper was published in '92 and for those who doubt its legitimacy based on its age, I recommend looking up modern papers on this.
Edit: One last thing before I go to sleep. I’m not making these comments because I want to make men feel bad, or that I think the average guy on Lemmy reading this is a murderer or potential murdered. I’m saying this because as men, we need to cut the bullshit and stop acting like we don’t hear other men casually talk about domestic violence, either “jokingly” or dead serious, or that we don’t see other men engaging in verbal or physical abuse against women. As a POC, I feel pretty much the same way about racism-- I don’t think the average white person is some KKK member but please for the love of god white folks, if you hear someone (especially your friends/family) saying/doing some racist shit, call it out!
Lotta downvotes but no responses to the study I provided. Not at all surprised. Until men are willing to simply acknowledge the existence of this problem, we’ve got a long way to go. Leftists on Lemmy definitely showing their true colors and it’s not surprising, so many leftist spaces get ruined by sexist men who want a safe space where they can discuss racism, transphobia, homophobia but sexism… Nope.
Dude, I 100% get what your saying.
Unfortunately what your asking of people requires personal sacrifice, and people will mentally go all over the place to resist that.
A personal anecdotes is that I’m no longer in contact with my family because I refused to see my racist grandfather on his deathbed and didn’t attend his funeral.
My grandfather was an abusive, literal stereotype of a racist(would say things like “them n-words down the road are fucking up this town”) and a raging alcoholic. The world is better because he’s fucking dead. Now I don’t have a family of origin because I wouldn’t pretend he was a good person.
Men will lose friends and family if they start calling this shit out. It’s hard. You get told to “mind your business” or "it’s just a joke " or get your masculinity questioned. Or the whole “but they’re family” thing. I get why people resist it. No one wants to lose their social support, but often that’s what it comes down to, and they’ll make it feel like you’re the one who’s in the wrong the whole time.
Social pressure is a hell of a thing. I think framing the context around why men don’t call this stuff out will help them recognize why they should.
Hundreds of thousands of women are killed each year, poisoned by their doctors. this article is old but nothing has changed. is this misogyny? i thought most doctors these days are women. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25355584/
Dude… What?
Our prescription drugs kill us in large numbers
That’s the article you linked. Do you think directly, physically murdering someone is the same thing as prescribing them drugs that are potentially dangerous?
Not even mentioning that the article has nothing to do with men/women.
To recap, this is what your argument has devolved into: “Yeah, well, this study from over a decade ago says doctors are prescribing too much medication, and I remember hearing once that there are more women doctors than men.”
Really?? That’s what you’ve got? Why are you bending over backwards to not change your mind on this no matter what evidence is provided to you?
See, this is the thing that happens when you defund education for decades, and create a culture where ignorance is celebrated, and critical thinking is shunned… This is the level of “argument” and “discussion” you end up with when they’re adults (big assumption there. Part of my hopes you’re a literal child).
No concept of basic logic, rationality, cogency, etc. It makes it very easy to win arguments like this, but it’s hollow victory, because usually the other person is far too gone (and, again, lacking the ability to think critically or evaluate their own biases) to ever accept that they were wrong. They just double and triple down.
It’s depressing.
As i said, the problem is ongoing. Were you aware of the extent of lethal poisoning by prescription drugs? did you know that each year doctors kill thousands of women this way and get away with it?
Someone needs to learn that “strawberries are fruits, therefore all fruits are strawberries” is idiotic ‘logic’.
Basically 100% of parents who have killed their newborns by throwing them in dumpsters are women. Yet I have a feeling you’d magically understand the logical flaw in pointing to those instances and saying “what’s wrong with women?”, wouldn’t you? Maybe something to do with the fact that the vast majority of women don’t do that?
It’s only your misandry that prevents you from identifying the exact same illogic directed at the demographic you’re bigoted toward.
Basically 100% of parents who have killed their newborns by throwing them in dumpsters are women.
Is this article about a newborn being killed? Or is it about a woman being killed by her partner? If it’s the latter, how often are women killed by their men compared to men being killed by women? If it’s the latter, why are you bringing up points relevant to the former? Please, please, please answer these questions. You’re engaging in the very logical fallacy you’re citing.
If this were a discussion about a black man being killed by a white police officer, would it make any sense to bring up stats about black men killing white police officers? Because that’s pretty much what you’re doing right now in an attempt to deflect from the main issue. I often see white supremacists in conservative spaces doing this, i.e. mentioning George Floyd’s criminal record or irrelevant stats about crime by black men to deflect from Derek Chauvin murdering him, and I think what you’re saying is fundamentally no different-- just with women/sexism instead of black men/racism.
Edit: Nevermind, just blocked ya. You’re the same clown that said this about women who fear being killed in the USA:
A completely irrational fear in the US at least, given that in a country of 340,000,000, less than 5,000 women are murdered a year. And that’s even if you pretended every single murder was by a rejected man.
Stop letting ideological propaganda make you paranoid.
Fuck off, you hate women and you’re trying desperately to gaslight them.
Is this article about a newborn being killed?
Is the concept of an analogy really so far beyond you? Do you not understand my simple point that it would be completely unfair to point the finger at the entirety of the female sex and say “hey you, stop killing your babies”, based on a crime that a tiny percentage of them commit?
And that therefore one might consider that it’s equally unfair to point the finger at the male sex, based on a crime that a tiny percentage of them commit?
This is not exactly cryptic, you know.
You’re the same clown that said [that it’s irrational to live life in fear of an event that has a 0.00147% of occurring]
I did say that. Stating simple facts is not exactly what clowns do, though, you seem a bit confused.
Fuck off, you hate women
No, I hate fear-mongering used to manipulate, in all cases. In this case, it’s feminist fear-mongering that tries to deceive women into thinking that murderous men are always all around them, waiting to strike the moment their guard is down.
Hate it just as much as sensationalized media that deceives the public into thinking the violent crime rate is much higher than it actually is. Just to give one sex-neutral example of the exact same phenomenon.
You could say I hate manipulation via deception in general.
and you’re trying desperately to gaslight them.
This is straight-up projection–you can’t gaslight someone with facts, lol.
Is this article about a newborn being killed?
No. The illustrative example was about newborn getting killed. Try to understand the point OP is making SMH.
I understand the point that person’s trying to make-- can they, or you, understand the counterpoint I’ve made? I swear, men will do the most impressive mental gymnastics to avoid acknowledging the simple fact that most violence against women is committed against men. It’s so pathetic.
most violence against women is committed against men.
I’ll leave that one for you and Freud to figure out.
…one question, though: When you say “violence”, do you mean psychological, physical, or both?
Holy shit. I cannot help but laugh at the absurdity of this. Guy made a perfect example on why your viewpoint is insane, and it went so far over your head.
Oh stfu. And we could bring up a million other things that are committed mostly by women and you wouldn’t say a fucking thing.
This is a discussion about a woman who was murdered, so why on earth would you bring up irrelevant stats? There’s a reason why you’re deflecting. Your only contribution to this discussion is a comment telling me to "stfu" because you’d rather deflect than confront sexism. The older I get, the less surprised I am to see not so low-key sexism in leftist spaces. You could have made any kind of comment in this thread and all you decided on was "bUt wHat aBoUT [irrelevant subject]".
It’s so disappointing, frustrating and downright exhausting. I fully expect this kind of rhetoric from conservatives and liberals but it just sucks to hear it in leftist spaces by people who claim to be allies to marginalized people. I honestly think I’m just going to take a break from online spaces like Lemmy and stick to my one community that just happens to be created/lead by a woman. Shit like this is why so many leftist websites and local clubs just turn into a hangout for mostly white guys cluelessly wondering why there’s so little diversity. ✌🏾
All you do is cry and complain into the void instead of empowering yourself and others.
I felt empowered.
Would you please provide data supporting this stance?
Already did in another comment in this thread, take a look. Cited with the link to the paper.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1635092/ <— by all means, look up similar studies done in more recent years and you’ll find the same fundamental patterns.
Not sure what this reference is demonstrating in the context of domestic violence.
That reference says
77% of which involved male victims and 23% female victims
So it is about killing in general not domestic violence
Men kill more and are killed more. This is not a secret and not exactly demonstrating that men are wrong, just that some “industries” (e.g. organised crime) are men only clubs (not sure if this is a demonstration of anything about how good or bad men are).
Do you have a reference specific to this topic?
Yeah, it’s because he was a man and not a horrible human. Gotcha.
Why respond in bad faith like this? You’re clearly playing dumb.
Pot, kettle…
Since i was a boy, i enjoyed the public library but i never understood why they always had loads of “romance novels” in a special section that only women frequented. when i was older it occurred to me to take a closer look and i was appalled. all women are disgusting. /s
Really having a hard time addressing the topic at hand, aren’t you?
Check my other comment.
It’s insane you’re getting this downvoted. Domestic violence from men against women is a massive global issue, and putting your hands over your ears and saying “ well I’m not the problem” is not doing anything. This problem will never get solved until men take ownership over it and stop it.
This problem will never get solved until men take ownership over it
Why exactly, should having a chromosome in common with a violent criminal make preventing their crime more that person’s responsibility than anyone else’s?
The crimes of men are not ‘owned’ by men. The crimes of women are not ‘owned’ by women. Crime is a societal ill that society collectively is responsible for preventing/catching/etc., to the best of its ability.
Don’t imagine you’d be good with a girl being physically abused by her mother reporting it to a male authority figure and being told ‘sorry, women gotta take ownership over this problem and solve it, it’s not men’s problem’, would you?
Think for a moment and realize how bigoted this line of thinking actually is.
What does this even mean? What fraction of men do you presume are abusers for one, and for two, are you assuming every man knows every other man and we just bulk regulate?
This is some “all black people know each other” kind of stupid.
Domestic violence is a global issue. But you’re not helping anyone by further pushing a stereotype and ignoring the problem. Do you think only cis men are capable of domestic violence? Because such a though would be bigoted in a few different ways to be honest.
Are we talking about what’s possible or what is likely?
Here I’ll answer both:
- Yes anyone is capable of violence
- 95% of all murder is by men, so is much more likely.
Bonus: men are far more likely to be a victim of violence than a woman. Men also should be cautious around strange new men!
That stat is entirely reductive and meaningless. And two of your answers are sexist. Not that I think you give a shit.
That stat is entirely reductive and meaningless.
How? How is a statistic like this meaningless?
If the statistic were reversed, you’re going to tell me that you wouldn’t care? If 95% of murders were committed by women? You don’t need to answer, I already know.
The reality, though, is if that were ever the case, men would immediately put a stop to it, and it would be no time before women were relegated to baby-making machines with no agency like freaks like Vance want.
If the statistic were reversed, you’re going to tell me that you wouldn’t care?
I’d be calling bullshit still. Sensationalized “stats” for the sake of views on “news”/blogs/podcasts is nothing new and I will not subscribe to it. I’m not sure which fallacies are in play here but I suspect it’s several.
If 95% of murders were committed by women? You don’t need to answer, I already know.
You really don’t.
This is a thread about Rebecca Cheptegei and you bring Vance into this… something 100% unrelated and is frankly, disrespected to the deceased. The problem is, you spend way to much time on the internet/news cycle and now you have a screwed up view of reality. You need to largely disconnect from the internet for a significant period of time
Don’t mention that among the three primary ‘sex pairings’ of romantic relationships (m/f, m/m, f/f), the one with the highest incidence of domestic violence is f/f, or their head might just explode, lol…
Peace. Don’t associate with men. We will all be happier the fewer people you associate with.
Oh boohoo did those mean men downvote you? Just another reason to mandate isolation of genders.
North west, bordering uganda. hmmm. i wonder if there is an islamic component to this? Or maybe a brain development problem. that region has a big problem with helminth infestation. A lot of poor rural kids have the worms and so, the immune system is inflamed and brain fails to develop. typical characteristic is inability to negotiate simple problems and turn on the other person in violent rage. its well documented. i have seen videos from rural west kenya of low iq parents beating their low iq children.
i have seen videos from rural west kenya of low iq parents beating their low iq children.
Really didn’t take long for this site to become the racist cesspit that reddit was. Impressive.
They have chronic parasite infestation leading to mental retardation. its a medical problem.
Listen buddy.
First of all, men are brutalizing women all over the world, every day, regardless of religion.
You should think about religion as less of a driver and more of a record. Like a dictionary.
People will do whatever they want to do, and then they will justify it. If there happens to be a few convenient passages in a religious text justifying setting your spouse on fire, they’ll repeat that until they’re blue in the face while dousing a woman in gasoline.
And sure, you can say that they use that text to tech their kids, but they’re still just teaching the bits they want to.
The point is, Muslim, Hindu, Christian, doesn’t matter. All major sacred books have bits about brutalizing women that step out of line, and the people that really like those bits tend to climg to them to justify being horrible fucking people.
Removed by mod
Removed, do not threaten other users with mod action.
Did they exploded yet?
It’s ok. I survived. I’m not sure what he did but I survived it.
Why just the other day in springfield a woman was covered in pitch and lit on fire down the road from me. /BIG SARCASM
I don’t believe the brainworm excuse given by that user but I don’t think it’s a stretch to see how locality influences these problems.
No, the woman in Springfield was just beaten to a pulp. You just don’t know it because it doesn’t make the news as long as she’s not been set on fire.
cope
You don’t believe in helminths? thousands are afflicted. maybe you think schistosoma are imaginary too. so, when youre pissing blood in excruciating pain, you will go to the witch doctor for a dose of belief based medicine, yes?
Even a severely brain damaged individual doesn’t start immolating their wives, and I see no particularly high correlation between Africa and rate of Neurological disorders in the first place.
See this Global Study LINK with a figure attached below:
It sounds like you just want an excuse to call Africans your intellectual inferiors.
People that grew up with chronic helminth infestation have serious mental impairment. why are you being facetious?
“How can I blame muslims for this”
This happens thousands of times a day in the developed west
Yes, sadly islam does happen thousands of times a day in the west. Not so sure about the chronic helminth infestation tho
Her ex is a christian(though it doesn’t matter what he is because it’s irrelevant to the murder). Are you gonna still blame “islam” for all your problems? Are they also causing your adhd and dysfunction?
Making big assumptions there. Turns out the perpetuator may have been Christian.
Whoops.
Fascinating how several people are determined to misquote, misattribute and mischaracterise my comments rather than do a little reading and free themselves from ignorance.
i never ascribed a religion to the attacker. i suggested that the growth of islam in that region might be linked with violence against women. because it usually is.
Wow. I hate humans: we were a mistake
Yeah. Climate change is just the earth getting a fever in an attempt to rid itself of the human virus.
Part of my hopes it succeeds.
*are
Hey that’s Fred Rogers you’re talking about here!
He wasnt human. He was a spirit of light.
It’s the Exception that proves the rule, is it not?
I wish the majority or at least a lot of people were like Mr. Rogers, but truth is, he was exceptional.
Can someone explain where the notion of an exception proving the rule came from? This has never made the slightest bit of sense to me, lol.
I remember wrestling with that for years. I dunno, my last interpretation of it was the fact that if it was rare and considered an exception then the rule has a point?
I dunno. I’m more than likely wrong but that’s as far as I could go with it.
Just terrible.
If there were some kind of global women’s vigilante network to handle these things, I would definitely not snitch.
Yeah, that never goes wrong.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/oct/29/vigilante-murder-paedophile-bristol-bijan-ebrahimi
Mob justice going wrong? No way!
Seems like a Vat of acid would be justified there
releases fake bones so the mob boss won’t suspend anything.
Been watching rick n morty i see
I could have that arranged.
The vats aren’t too big, but we have a few different acids. Nitric, hydrochloric, hydrofluoric, a few others.
Id go with hydroflouric.
Oh no. This beautiful light extinguished from our eyes
Whoa… Bad choice of words…
Or great, depends on what you were going for…
Agreed. Star would have implied because of her athletic skill, I meant because of her spirit.
“The authorities in north-west Kenya, where Cheptegei lived and trained, said she was targeted after returning home from church with her two daughters.”
it then has something about land and quarelling but its hard to get what happened.
“A report filed by a local administrator alleged the athlete and her ex-partner had been wrangling over a piece of land. Police say an investigation is under way. Cheptegei, from a region just across the border in Uganda, is said to have bought a plot in Trans Nzoia county and built a house to be near Kenya’s elite athletics training centres.”
it talks of her generosity and position as a bread winner. I wonder if he wanted her to buy it at some inflated price or some crap. I guess ultimately it does not matter what the stupidity was but for some reason im always trying to figure out the thinking from the nutter in the story. Luckily it does not mention injuries to the daughter although apparently he got himself somewhat but not enough to die.
I hope he survives and spends the rest of his life in extreme pain.
Okay JFC who sets someone on fire over a land dispute!? I mean I’d be all for lighting, say, Kim Jong Un on fire, but that guy’s a mad murdering sociopath. I dunno what penalties there are for egregiously horrible murder, but that guy deserves it.
Are there special punishments or charges for deluxe murder? Like murder with extra suffering? IDK humanity is pretty fucked up.
When my family murdered folks over land disputes the other folks did it first, we also used guns and a ditch. Seriously burning someone alive is something ya leave to trench fighters.
What are you, a Hatfield?
Nah, just a member of an American-Scots family who historically pissed off a lot of people. From Yankees to dixies, and Mormons to Adventists we’ve pissed on them all.
End femicide!
Curious downvotes on this one.
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Wtf are you talking about. What a weird thing to write. I’m very much not OK with being murdered thank you very much.
Listen, cut him some slack - it’s really hard to keep your hands dry when you’re writing inside of a bubble. They’re very soapy, and you can’t move too much or they’ll pop.
Hopefully it was from the perspective that the comment is not helpful in reducing the number of murders of women.
I don’t know, I don’t personally see the harm in merely motivational comments or rants. But I thought it might be that.
I honestly have no idea how any Lemmy comment might be helpful at reducing the murders of women.
Maybe if they proposed some policy, or shared some stats and facts, instead of merely a statement of hope.
Not really. Specifically saying “end femicide” is like fundraising for breast cancer treatment, but only for men, who are a small minority of those with breast cancer.
You are over three times less likely to be a victim of murder (in the US at least) if you are a woman, than a man.
There is zero reason to oppose murder of one sex any more or less than the other, and it takes the same amount of effort to voice opposition for both, as for only one. So going out of your way to advocate only for the half of the population that suffers this fate far less often, understandably comes off as sexist and callous, to the objective observer.
I’ll just say this: End femicide.
If the sex of a murder victim changes, at all, how you perceive the crime, you’re sexist, period.
At least have the guts to admit it instead of pretending this is a noble stance.
The sex, gender, ethnicity etc of the victim, and the perpetrator, can give very important context that can point to very important issues that needs to be dealt with. If you’re alluding to the actual deaths of the victims being equally bad no matter their gender because they are all humans, then congratulations for passing the lowest threshold for human decency.
Wanting to end femicide doesn’t mean you value women more than men, it’s pointing to a specific issue. It also doesn’t mean that other issues doesn’t matter.
If you’re alluding to the actual deaths of the victims being equally bad no matter their gender because they are all humans, then congratulations for passing the lowest threshold for human decency.
Yeah, and as low as that is, there are many in here who don’t pass it, so shame on them.
Wanting to end femicide doesn’t mean you value women more than men, it’s pointing to a specific issue. It also doesn’t mean that other issues doesn’t matter.
It’s the same sort of thing as when there was that big statement made some years back about ‘stop targeting women journalists’, alongside a statistic that 11% of the journalists who were killed over the prior year were women. In other words, ‘89% of killed journalists are men, so stop killing women’. At best, a statement like that comes off as foolishly ignorant–at worst, it comes off as callous and indifferent to male victims.
Everything has context, and context matters. Your can look at any issue from different perspectives and through different lenses. From different perspectives, different aspects of the context might be of different significance, etc. As such, there could very well be a perfectly fine reason to say “stop targeting women journalists”. But that doesn’t, at all, mean other perspectives are invalid.
How many in that statistic are men being killed by women? How many of those murders are the result of gang violence that’s predominantly committed against men by other men?
I assume you’re referring to this stat:
In 2022, the FBI reported that 14,441 men and 4,251 women were murdered in the United States.
… which equates to about 79% of all murders.
There’s a lot of nuance in that broad, sweeping statistic, but here are some statistics that are more clear:
In the same year, there were 15,094 male murder offenders and 2,107 female murder offenders.
… so the problem isn’t that more men are being murdered in general, but that an overwhelmingly larger number of men are murderers, and they target each other quite a bit. Gang violence stats are wrapped up in that 79%, and most gang violence is male-on-male.
Here’s another:
Among homicides in the United States, intimate partners kill almost 50% of female and 10% of male victims.
Many of these stats are situational, making that overly-broad figure misleading.
Also, the likelihood of being murdered increases quite a bit when a woman is pregnant:
In 2020, the homicide rate for pregnant or postpartum women was 5.23 per 100,000 live births, which is 35% higher than the rate for non-pregnant and non-postpartum women.
And that doesn’t include all the violent sexual crimes against women and girls, that are also committed at a far higher rate than against men and boys.
The overarching fact seems to be that men kill men a lot, and they also kill women an order of magnitude more often than women kill men, so maybe the problem here is men’s propensity for violence.
e: If that’s what you meant, I agree, we should be finding and implementing ways to reduce male toxicity in general, which includes many things like supporting mental health care and opposing norms (mostly within the online ‘manosphere’) that promote and foster toxic rather than healthy masculinity.
You are over three times less likely to be a victim of murder (in the US at least) if you are a woman, than a man.
There is a big difference in intent. Do these 3x times men been murder just for been a man?
The femicide(at least in a decent country) is a category of crime, a discriminatory crime, is not a normal murder, is associated with rape or domestic violence, etc.
There is a big difference in intent.
Literally irrelevant. The victim is no less murdered. What kind of ridiculous justification is this for devaluing male victims?
‘But the reason they were killed isn’t as bad (according to me)!’
Who in their right mind gives a shit? They’re still murdered! ‘I know your son was murdered, but don’t worry, the motive wasn’t one of the (in my opinion) really bad ones’. Seriously?
So to push this absurd ‘logic’ just a bit further, if the same number of women were murdered, but the motives were in alignment, incidence-wise, with murdered men, this would be an improvement, in your view, even though the same amount of killing has occurred. Because motive makes a murder more or less bad, apparently. Absolutely absurd.
‘Sure men are killed way way more often, but people who kill women are (I assume, hehe) more likely to do it for a way more worser reason’ is some of the dumbest, flailing, desperate attempts I have ever seen to minimize and erase male victimhood.
How many in that statistic are men being killed by women?
Thinking this is a question of any merit already exposes you. It does not matter, at all, what sex a murder victim’s murderer is, to the victim–they are equally dead.
The attempt to minimize male victimhood with this insane implication of ‘if the perpetrator is the same sex, it doesn’t count’ is actually pathetic. For shame.
Reminder that the vast, vast, vast majority of males have never and will never murder anyone, despite these disgusting sexist narratives.
Lemmy is a quite misogynistic place.
Its often no fun to be a woman on here. They might rip you apart, if you say something slightly feminist (depending on where you say it). Made me think of leaving several times already.
Please don’t leave. We all need you here. (But I understand if you do…)
I understand if you do, but I hope you won’t. I like this place despite its flaws and I hope it won’t turn into a far right community.
Please don’t leave! Keep speaking your mind, if enough of us stick it out we can drown out the users like Captain Asshole here.
You’re not alone! Please stay!
Removed by mod
@captain_aggravated please shut up and stop proving the point that people like you exist on the internet. Go touch grass.
It fucking sucks. This place was great shortly after the reddit exodus. Now it’s just as bad, if not worse.
As a man, are there any fucking online spaces that haven’t been co-opted by right wing interests? I’m sick of this “red pill” bullshit infecting the minds of young men in every corner of the internet. Nowhere is safe. I wish they’d crawl back into the holes they came out of.
We are going fucking backwards and it’s infuriating.
I still have hope.
On reddit there were also a lot of right wing nuts, incels and raging misogynists, but they tended to concentrate themselves into their own subs and echo chamber bubbles. If you kept yourself away from the “Manosphere” (like r/incels, r/MGTOW, r/MensRights…), the likes of TheDonald and the equaly disturbing misandrists of r/FemaleDatingStrategy it wasn’t that bad.
I hope this wave of toxic behaviour towards each other is just some kind of growing pain and these toxic people will find themselves seperating into their own communities wigh time.
It’s not misogynistic to not want the half of humanity that gets murdered multiple times more often (over 3x in the US) than the other, to be erased as victims.
You obviously don’t (want to) know what ‘femicide’ actually is.
It’s true, that the total percentage of men getting murdered is higher. But they do not get murdered for their gender. Nor are they being murdered mostly by women.
When we speak of femicide, we talk about that women are disproportionately murdered by their partners or ex- partners and family members. The most dangerous place for a women is her own home.
Most attempts on a woman’s life are done by her spouse. And in the past, these murders and attempted murders were often ignored or disregarded, because it’s “just” a domestic dispute. It happens…
But the number of femicides worldwide are actually rising significantly. And that’s why its important to call it out and shine light on it. We can’t just shrug at another ex boyfriend who set his girlfriend on fire.
This doesn’t erase male murder victims, but makes usually invisible female victims visible. The same way that women’s right are not taking away any rights from men. You are not being repressed by women having equal rights.
When people talk about a high rate of deaths from barfights or whatever, that doesn’t erase victims from robberies. You only cry about victims being erased, because its women we talk about.
You don’t even have to take my word for it.
https://www.womankind.org.uk/resource/a-femicide-factsheet-global-stats-calls-to-action/
https://www.statista.com/chart/31326/estimated-number-of-female-homicides-by-family-and-partners/
https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2023/10/states-must-eradicate-femicide-globally-un-expert
Block anyone or any instance you find regularly being outright misogynistic and slowly, but surely, create a better place for yourself.
The problem is that blocking only solves the smaller issue and basically sweeps Lemmy’s sexism under the rug instead of addressing why sexism is so prevalent in leftist spaces. And I don’t think it’s up to women to educate men on this, it’s up to men to educate other men on this. We have to keep in mind how exhausting it is for women to 1) deal with sexist shit and then 2) basically be told they have to teach men about [traumatic things that they’ve been through and shouldn’t have to re-experience by talking to men]
Wouldn’t sexism be even more prevalent in right-wing spaces? Or would you say that it’s pretty evenly distributed over the political spectrum?
The entire fucking Internet is a “right wing space” at this point.
Sexism is prevalent in right-wing spaces as well. I’d say it’s more prevalent and predictable in right wing spaces, but it’s still prevalent and IMO far more disappointing in leftist spaces from people who supposedly claim they’re progressive.
It’s not just misogyny. I’m watching the sweetest, most kind user getting ripped to shreds for posting articles from MSM about candidates across the spectrum, who are of neither major party. The toxicity is wild , self-justification more wild. In the short time I’ve been on Lemmy, it’s “gone to hell in a fast car and keeping it hot,” as I hear a user elsewhere say. about certain topics. I’m quickly becoming of the opinion the up and down votes get discarded and a randomized ranking algorithm put in place.
Lemmy is filled with the most opinionated kind of Redditors and Russians it can fit on the servers, it’s a moderator miracle it didn’t go full incel.
😫
