everyone hates lemmynsfw
So blahaj.zone defederated a whole instance because one community on lemmynsfw has pictures of (verified) adults that don’t look adult enough? That seems… extreme, and rather insulting to the women whose bodies/appearances are supposedly too close to actual children to be worthy of attraction. Glad that’s not my instance, though to each their own.
First of all I want to make it clear that I don’t agree with this defederation, if the models are verified adults then there is no problem.
That said, as a Mastodon instance admin, I wanna explain something to y’all. CSAM is one of those things that you do not want to take your chances with as an admin. Beyond the obvious fact that it’s vile, even having that shit cached on your server can potentially lead to very serious legal trouble. I can see how an admin might choose to defederate because even if right now all models are verified, what if something slips through the cracks (pun not intended, but I’ll roll with it).
My instance defederates a bunch of Japanese artist instances like pawoo because of this. All it takes is one user crossing the line, one AI generated image that looks too real.
Aside from all that, there’s also a lot of pressure being put on many instance admins to outright ban users and defederate instances that post or allow loli/shota artwork as well. You’re quickly labeled a pedophile if you don’t do it. A lot of people consider fake CSAM to be just as bad, so it’s possible that the other admin felt that way.
I’m more lenient on loli/shota as long as it’s not realistic because I understand that it’s a cultural difference and generally speaking Japanese people don’t see it the way we do. I don’t ban stuff just because I think it’s gross, I just don’t look at it.
Anyway what I’m trying to say I guess is that being an admin is hard and there’s a lot of stuff y’all don’t know about so disagree with that person if you want (I do too) but keep in mind that these decisions don’t come easy and nobody likes to defederate.
EDIT: here’s a mastodon thread about the CSAM problem in the fediverse if you’d like to learn more.
If they offered that as explanation there would have been no drama.
Well yeah I’m not like defending them or anything. I just kind of understand where they’re coming from too.
Yeah, but on the other hand it is verifiably not CSAM
The problem is that if it’s hard to tell at a glance, there’s no way to know if actual CSAM gets uploaded there in the future. So what it boils down to is, is it worth the risk? That admin says no, it isn’t, so they defederate.
My Mastodon instance defederates pretty much any instance that allows sexually explicit or suggestive artwork or photos of people who look underage. It’s just not worth it.
then why even federate at all? someone else could post CSAM at any time
As a woman who spent a good chunk of her adult life looking like a child I had to deal with a lot of pedos on MySpace etc trying to get sick pictures from me. Most of them fucked off once I told them I was in my 20s… it’s disturbing and I find the idea that someone can find childlike attributes attractive to be repulsive. It’s not ok to simulate racism or bigotry for the pleasure of racists and bigots, why is it ok to simulate CP?
The women on the community in question don’t even look “barely legal” but well over 20 in most cases. People are losing their minds over nothing.
Yes as a survivor of abuse as a child I don’t see the big deal with thru decision.
So presumably you are repulsed by your partners right?
Like when did the conversation become purely about physical appearance, and instead of the actual moral implications of dating a literal child.
Do you not have to apply your reasoning to anyone who ever found you attractive?
As someone who was in the same shoes as the person you reacted to: I was absolutely repulsed. It’s the main reason why I waited until my late thirties to get a partner for life.
When I got the slightest whiff of the men being with me because he liked that I was short / skinny / childlike that was the end of the relationship. It’s not only superficial, but also highly questionable to find your partner attractive because of these traits.
That’s absolutely nuts. You think it’s akin to pedophilia to find an adult woman attractive. If only you ever actually read up on what exactly pedophilia is I think you would’ve saved yourself a lot of trouble. It is exclusively an attraction to children, it has absolutely nothing to do with being attracted to petite adult women.
Like can you explain what exactly is the moral delimma in finding an adult petite woman attractive?
It’s superficial to find your partner attractive because of their traits? That makes absolutely no sense. Finding literally anyone in the world attrative is inherently superficial, that’s how it works.
I think this is an area where there is legitimate debate. They didn’t name the community, but I’m guessing it’s fauxbait, which has in the sidebar:
FauxBait is a place for sharing images and videos of the youngest-looking, legal-aged (18+) girls. If you like fresh, young starlets, this is the place for you!
The title seems to be for “fake jailbait,” so I can understand people assuming it’s essentially simulated underage porn. There will be those who say that as long as the models are legal, it’s fine, and others who say it’s not okay to make what looks like child porn, even if it’s not made with children.
I personally feel that, as long as they’re up front about it being adults, it’s okay for it to exist, even though some of the pics there are a bit gross to me. But I get that people will fall to the left and right of me. If it crosses a line for the admin there, defederating seems reasonable (since they can’t block the community at the instance level).
I thought it was a different community that was causing the issues; the reaction makes much more sense with that one. While I still don’t agree with the defederation it’s not nearly as unreasonable as it first seemed to me. Thanks for clearing that up.
Edit - nevermind, it actually was adorableporn, so yeah still weird.
Full disclosure, I’m guessing - the admin post about it didn’t name the community, but she said something about “intentionally looking underage” or something like that, which is why I assumed fauxbait.
The community was !adorableporn@lemmynsfw.com
Nothing to do with jailbait
Where did she say that? The admin post I saw didn’t name it. Adorableporn makes no sense since half the pics there are clearly older women.
Look at the link in the OP here…
Look at the link in OP you are commenting on lol
Look at the link in the OP here…
Imbecil
The community in question is “adorable porn”, from what I’ve read.
The concept of which is attractive but bubbly/cute women in nsfw circumstances.
Well that just makes no sense and makes me question the accuracy. I’m not sure that community even skews particular young, though probably at least a little… Adorable doesn’t necessarily mean young and young doesn’t necessarily mean adorable.
The accuracy? Admin posted the conversation
Oh, I hadn’t seen the conversation screenshot. It honestly so much doesn’t make sense that I’m wondering if she linked the wrong sub. I mean, scroll through that one - lots and lots of the posts are cute housewives.
Fauxbait, on the other hand, I could see being debatable. How could they have a problem with the one and not the other? Something doesn’t add up.
They did not link the wrong community. It’s just stupid, nothing more
I’m the new mod of !adorableporn@lemmynsfw.com, (not to be confused with !adorableporn@pornlemmy.com) , and since the female gender does not have a monopoly on the word “adorable”, the community is inclusive of all genders.
I welcome all to join in the conversation at pinned post in the community: https://lemmynsfw.com/post/419923
Well no, they defederated because they have a problem with a community that tries to look like they’re underaged. Not individuals looking underaged but they’re saying they don’t like that there is a community for that type of content. It’s fine to disagree with them over the truth of that, but you shouldn’t change their reasoning.
Edit: see the very end of the chat on this comment https://lemmynsfw.com/comment/683605
I’m not sure what you mean about adorableporn trying to make anyone appear underage - I see no indication of that in the post in question, and that’s not the purpose of the community (it would even appear all non-OC posts must include proof of being above legal age). I’m not sure what your second sentence means. I had no intention of changing/mischaracterizing anyone’s post and I find it very ironic you say I did.
Whether or not that is what the purpose of that community is that is what the Blahaj admins believe the purpose of it is and that’s why they chose to defederate.
Edit: See the end of the chat in this comment, it shows what I am mentioning. https://lemmynsfw.com/comment/683605
They’re saying it’s (in their opinion, lemmynsfw admins disagree) a community devoted to crossing the line and appearing to be underaged. The Blahaj admins are saying that’s what the problem is, not just a few random users who look underaged.
If it’s as presented in the quote then yeah, this feels like that australian porn law they tried where “if you look like you could be underage, it counts as child sex material” and one specific example from the text was “too small or flat breasts”. Which was just patently absurd.
I seem to remember a guy being convicted for possession of child porn, and the very much adult porn star actually came to his trial to testify in his defense… I’ll see if I can find a link about it, but that will be some risky searching.
Lupe something.
And he wasnt convicted, but was going to. The state had a “medical expert” show up and testify that there was no way an adult woman could look like that. Just 100% sure of himself and smug as fuck about it.
Then the defense called the pornstar to the stand and she was in her late 20s or something and working in the industry for over a decade.
It was something that never should have made it to trial, and gets used a lot as an example for how shit expert testimony can be. The prosecution doesn’t try to find the person who knows the most, they find whoever can do the best job of convincing a jury that the prosecution is right. So the people who do it (some are professional “expert witnesses”) are just the most overconfident people. Even if they’re not sure, they play it up that there can’t be any doubt.
Lupe Fuentes. What’s worse is that she was already registered in multiple US studios since she made films here, too, so the prosecution could have easily verified her documents, which the defense attorney asked her to do. Instead, she had the CBP agent who made the arrest and an “expert” doctor testify that Lupe couldn’t have been more than 13.
Good article on it here: https://reason.com/2010/05/03/porn-star-saves-man-from-incom/
That crap is borderline Puritanism, wtf is wrong with people?
Ah, found the story. That is wild. Also amazing of her to actually fly over to testify, I thought it was in her own country or something. Amazing person! <3
There’s some further correspondence in the linked post, and yeah that’s basically what it boiled down to. What a strange world. I can’t believe that’s a real law.
lawmakers are not intelligent or discerning people
Makes the story about ChatGPT passing the bar exam a lot less impressive.
They’re pandering to voters with laws like that. The politicians probably don’t care.
Those changes were the sole reason women in the media in australia got bigger tits all of a sudden. Nice!
God I feel so bad for all the women who were in the “illegally small boobs” category. Therapist and psychiatrist visits must have skyrocketed.
One post in one community and the title of the community.
I could understand it if it were over an actual “fake jailbait” or “drawn little girls” community, that would make way more sense than this.
I’m looking at it right now and the vast majority of the posts there are clearly adult women and the ones that look young like Hannah Hayes are pretty easily verifiable adult performers. Also their tone in demanding them to purge a community and all their users when they’re so off base is absurd.
This all seems very goofy. This Ada person lives in a weird reality and I wish them the best.
Lemmynsfw literally has a community called fauxbait.
I assumed until someone said the problem community was adorableporn that the problem was fauxbait. Fauxbait gives me seriously sceevy vibes and I ended up blocking it on all three of my accounts (I think. If I havent I will)
The name REALLY doesn’t help. Like, I know the women there are not under age for the most part because I have seen them around since I was in my 20s, which was 20 years ago. It’s not my thing, but there are people who are attracted to slimmer proportions so whatever. Still, the name makes it sound like it’s a CP false flag site.
That’s fair. So why not cite that particular community and ask for its removal instead of this one?
I acted on the report I received, which wasn’t for the jailbait community. At that time, I didn’t even know the jailbait community existed. However, it’s continued existence validates my initial concerns
So you didn’t even look into it at all before making demands about purging a community and all its users. Very cool.
Also don’t call it “a jailbait community”. Yeah it’s gross, but the whole point is that it’s adult women, hence the “faux”. Can’t believe I have to defend creeps against a person like you. There’s something very off with you.
You asked for an explanation. I provided one. You respond with personal attacks
After looking at your explanation, yes. Correct. Good job.
I’m thinking that they may have either made a mistake in picking another community, or that they saw what they thought was content from that community and called it out immediately. Let’s not forget that if anything Lemmy is less immune to the moderator god complex than Reddit. Since most “mods” of Lemmy/fediverse instances are also paying a physical price they feel even more attacked. Rather than just announcing simply “Blahaj has defederated from Lemmynsfw” they made a whole post about it and then talked at length about culture war stuff. A simple “Blahaj states their reason for defederating is due to our hosting of potentially illegal content. We want to remind our subscribers and user that lemmynsfw does NOT support illegal content, will NOT host it and will remove anything that violates the law.” They chose to take it as an insult. It’s just business.
Rather than just announcing simply “Blahaj has defederated from Lemmynsfw” they made a whole post about it
Alas, Lemmy does not provide a way of making a local only post, or that is how it would have been done.
And to think Hannah Hayes is quite old in Porn industry terms. She should be doing milf vids in about 2 to 4 years if my calculations are correct.
I could understand it if it were over an actual “fake jailbait”
That community exists on lemmynsfw too…
How do you know they are verified adults? Just because someone on the internet posts a picture and says it is? I think it is absolutely warranted to put communities under intense scrutiny which accumulate such content.
I agree. In this case the pictures in question include the model name, who you can research yourself and see is above 18. That community is strictly moderated, and requires model name, source, and age verification.
How do you know anyone is a verified adult? A 17 year old can look like a 22 year old. Should we ban all porn unless its of verified adults? Should one need a license to use their body in pornography?
Do you verify everyone to be of age in all pornographic material you consume? Unless you do, there is a decent chance you’ve unknowingly seen pornographic content involving someone just not quite of age.
To answer your question more directly, pornography companies where images usually originate obviously don’t hire underage actors. Sites for posting/selling self pornography also require documents, but that’s pretty prone to forgery.
When it comes to self posting on social media, all bets are off. Someone not quite of age can post pornography of themselves on twitter or reddit or they can even post it on self hosted blog.
So you have 2 solutions: Ban all pornography of people who would be asked for a driver’s license when they are buying alcohol. So probably like 30+ years of age. Requires a government license to post pornography of self, which would also require disclosing your legal name and other identifiable information when posting pornography.
Or we can continue being pragmatic and use our best judgement while understanding that our perception can’t tell who is 17 years and 363 days old and who just turned 18.
Should we ban all porn unless its of verified adults?
Erm, of course we should? Seriously? I wouldn’t want to accidentally run into that on Lemmy. In an ideal world we obviously should.
Do you verify everyone to be of age in all pornographic material you consume?
I do not consume pornographic material.
Let’s get back to what is discussed here. I never said we should ban all porn or whatever you try to twist my words into.
When a community allows amateur porn that can not be verified, as you state yourself, an instance or person who wants to make somewhat sure they aren’t seeing porn from or about minors should defederate from that instance. Or a user should ban that community. This is especially true if the community hosts “barely legal” porn.
I didn’t notice that blahaj defederated from us so much.
Mental illness is rampant in the blahaj
Cross-instance content transmission is so poor, that de-federation is a moot point.
You effectively have to sign up for your own lemmynsfw account if you actually want to access most of the content that is posted there.
Irony because here I am posting cross-instance.
Cross-instance content transmission is so poor, that de-federation is a moot point.
I don’t quite understand what you are saying, especially considering I’m posting from an instance with no content besides what’s federating …
Not everything is x-phobia you drama queen
deleted by creator
Any opinion you don’t like = troll
deleted by creator
Joined 3 hours ago. Larger than 10 percent of your submissions have been anti-lgbt. Looks like a troll to me. Say it with your main.
Lol how have I been ANTI-LGBT? Point out an example.
BTW, I just finished reading And The Band Played On, which moved me you tears multiple times. But yeh go on about my ‘anti-lgbt’ views, lol
Your comment here, which doesn’t seem to be on topic with what the above said, unless I’m wrong. That comment, to me, reads like an insult to “sensitive snowflakes” Is that incorrect?
Not sure what you’re talking about. I don’t have an account there and I see gobs of content from it when I browse by All.
Lemmy needs more tools to help avoid defederation. Like the admins being able to block communities (defederating a community interested of the entire instance), or hide posts from a community/instance from c/All so people who are still subscribed or manually search can still find the posts
Also users should be able to block instances just for themselves, just posts or comments as well
It has those tools. They’re called “Run your own instance.”
It lets you federate with whoever you want.
This is not an answer that will work for growing Lemmy. Most people do not want to buy a server and domain name to use Lemmy, and then they gotta learn how to use Linux and docker and figure out how to get it all working? Most people don’t even know what Linux or SSH is. And then they need to read a huge list of instances to see which ones they want to block? And they gotta worry about keeping it up to date, and security issues, and watch the disk space usage. They would rather just stay on Reddit instead.
Also your solution still doesn’t address blocking/hiding posts but not comments, or hiding posts in the feed but still showing them in searches or in the specific community.
That user has their head so far up their own ass it’s not funny.
I mean, it’s kinda funny 🤣
It is a bit, yes.
That doesn’t seem like a helpful reply. The vast majority of people wouldn’t feel comfortable trying to stand up an instance, and most don’t want to administrate one, but even if they did, it doesn’t address the issue in question. If I want to stand up an instance and be federated with a different one, but they have one community that’s problematic for me, I still have no recourse but to defederate from the whole thing. The suggestion was to provide admins with the capability to block a community at the instance level, and that actually does take care of the problem.
I have the ability to block a community through the app I use, is this not built into Lemmy itself?
I have that via Connect on android, but it doean’t appear to do anything.
Weird, I’m using Connect and it works for me.
It’s probably me then. Maybe I need to update. Thanks!
no, it’s an app trick. not all apps allow it. it’s on the roadmap to be integrated in lemmy itself btw.
Users can block communities yeah but instance admins cannot. I think instance admins should be able to control what c/All shows to an extent. Figuring out which communities to block takes time and frustrates new users. I’ve seen multiple posts from users complaining about certain communities or posts showing up on c/All and not knowing or caring that they can block communities. And then you gotta think about anonymous browsing, I’m sure many users browse without an account or without logging in, for both Lemmy and Reddit and other sites too, users hate creating accounts no matter how easy you make it.
I agree with this, but there’s even more. Here’s a hypothetical example. Let’s say I want to create an instance that’s a safe space for rape victims in particular. Now let’s say there’s a big instance that’s very popular with some of the most frequented communities, but they also have one for simulated rape porn. Currently, all I can do is defederate or tell every user in my instance they should block the community (which, as far as I know, requires each of them going to the community and clicking “block” from the sidebar). It would be better if an admin could keep a community from showing up for any of their users.
This is too much of a minefield to wade into, but I suppose if you’re on blahaj and disagree, transfer your subs to a new instance that federates with both, and you won’t notice the difference from before.
That’s the beauty of the fediverse. If you disagree with your instance you can so easily pack up and move to another. Or self host.
I don’t think it’s a minefield at all and you can see what sort of content is posted on that community to decide for yourself. There are some young looking women there, but it’s very easy to google their names and confirm they were paid age verified performers/actors/models whatever you wanna call them. Most of the content posted there are just adult looking women.
This is silly.
The community sidebar used the term “child-like.” That’s pretty disgusting and really disingenuous of the lemmynsfw admins to quietly change that and then pretend like nothing happened. Plus, redditors have already gone through all this with r/jailbait, so it’s not really silly to anybody who remembers that debacle.
Nowhere does the adorableporn community sidebar use the term “child-like”.
Why are you making things up?Correction: I see now. Yeah that’s a bit sketchy, but I can see their thought process. My apologies either way.
They changed it after Ada complained about the community
Edit: Proof: https://lemmynsfw.com/comment/682757
How long ago was this?
Until whenever it was when Ada complained
Edit: Proof: https://lemmynsfw.com/comment/682757
This is inaccurate. It did not say “childlike” at the time that Ada complained. After we got defederated, I asked a new mod of that community to update the sidebar because it was very light on rules, purpose, etc. and I thought that maybe our conflict with blahaj could have been avoided if the sidebar was more explicit about what the community was about. As part of his revision, on his first pass he copied and pasted a dictionary definition of “adorable” which included the word “childlike”, then went back and re-edited it to remove that word on a later editing pass. I want to say it was in there for about two hours? During that time, a couple of people spotted it and made some unwarranted assumptions.
The blahaj admin defederating is totally fair, and it’s the whole point of the fediverse. The dragging the issue into the public view to cover up their own mistaken impression is absolutely silly. The public attack in the form of implication that the other admin is supporting CSAM is sickening. This person comes across as the type to manufacture drama to make themselves seem like a victim. Were I an instance admin, they would be exactly the kind of person I would want to defederate from, as nothing good comes from association with people who like to play victim for attention.
Welcome to the canceldon. Remember, you must purity spiral or else you’re the nazi.
It’s not that fucking serious.
deleted by creator
If an instance is sharing content that another instance finds problematic, then defederation makes sense. Regardless, though, it seems like lemmynsfw is doing their due diligence to handle illegal content. We all know that porn will exist… having good stewards of those communities is vital. Punishing them for providing a (legal) porn platform is counterproductive.
deleted by creator
We should remember that a lot of these services are still young, and definitely did not expect the popularity they got. I know they’re all working on scaling up and adding features, but the teams aren’t huge and they’re playing catchup with established sites (not that Reddit was ever great at moderation.)
It turns out that setting up an Internet social arena is really hard. They have existed for decades, and the core mechanics and content policy make a big difference in the vibe of the communities that arise on it. What may work initially then becomes toxic. It’s very hard to predict where you’ll end up once the Eternal September kicks in.
It’s not a solved problem at all!
Heck, running a Discord server wasn’t all roses. You take a month off and you come back to find a moderator has alienated most of the community by abusing the community rules. So yeah, building the framework AND trying to moderate has to be overwhelming.
there should be an instance filter for fediverse users so that unwanted content, namely all the crazy disgusting shit being posted on nsfw doesn’t automatically show up in users feeds
You’re on kbin. You already have a NSFW filter.
I think, like most people who seem to bitch about NSFW stuff on their feed, is that they want to filter out all the stuff they’re not into and leave all the stuff they are.
Which, while I sympathize with, is something they need to deal with themselves rather than something that someone should be doing for them. Back when reddit had NSFW content on all, there were a bunch of subreddits that I didn’t want to see. So I blocked them. Because my opinions are my responsibility, not anyone else’s.
Blocking individual communities / magazines is also possible on kbin. But I guess some people just want to cry for the sake of crying. The only thing that doesn’t quite work is blocking actual instances, which the GUI supports, but it does not actually block communities from that instance.
You can turn of NSFW content in your account settings if you find it objectionable. This is on both lemmy and kbin.
There’s a lot of content I’m just not into - and I happily block those communities. But I would never want to inflict my own likes & dislikes on others. So I think a move like this is unenlightened.
But, I also think there needs to be an instance that fits everyone, and if lemmy.blahaz.zone wants to be the morality-police instance for their users, and their users like that, then more power to them.
I forgot, is that from Psyche?
I’ll add that I’ve seen that particular admin elsewhere and they didn’t seem particularly off. In fact here they’re just concerned about attracting paedophiles which isn’t exactly a bad precaution. But that instance really has very little of substance or value going by their communities.
But that instance really has very little of substance or value going by their communities.
So if you don’t mind my asking, what is this all about?
As far as I understand, it is an instance dedicated to creating a safe space for gender diverse people. I don’t think you’re the only one critiquing the value of the instance at a general level here either. From what I’ve seen there’s a good amount of gender diverse people talking about their own situations with each other there as well as their own meme-ing and shitposting. What’s wrong with that?
Given that I’ve not seen anyone else critique a whole instance (which is odd to say in a thread about a NSFW instance maybe not doing enough to prevent CSAM) … I must be missing something because otherwise it’s hard not to see this as some form of trans/queer phobia.
Care to fill me in?
It’s just overt 196phobia, whom I assumed they mostly comprise.
What’s so bad about !196!196@lemmy.blahaj.zone ? Seems like typical meme stuff from what I’ve seen? Also, I’m pretty sure that’s just their popular community, they seem to have a number that are more specific to their values/demographic.
I remember them from the old place and have nothing kind to say about them.
According to their chats, the admin of blahaj.zone apparently misunderstood “adorableporn” as potbetially having people in it that could be confused as being too young, and demanded it be taken down. When the response was a level “uhh, no. Your mistake isn’t our problem.” The admin in question defederated from nsfw. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I would like to hear more from Blahaj users, because for the most part, this thread has been listening to NSFW complain about the defedding, and expressing outrage, speculation and judgement about the defedding, from users who are ultimately unaffected by this defedding. I want to know if this is something their users agree with or not, from the users themselves.
Also, Blahaj isn’t the only major instance to defed NSFW, but because of the nature of their sub, they seem to get the most attention over it.
Ada has been fairly aggressive in shaping her community on blahaj, so I think we’ll see some splintering soon.
Logically there are two positions one can hold as a public LGBT (or any marginalized group) community:
Either we are first and foremost a safe space for our members, and will moderate aggressively to keep it that way
or
We are first and foremost the public face of this community, serving as a place for us to stage the culture war for our own safety and acceptanceBoth of these are cool and make sense, but blahaj kind of fell accidentally into the second role due to the massive popularity of 196, while Ada really seems to want to cultivate the safe space instead. I’m sure the community is split, but time will tell just how deeply.
My unqualified prediction is that blahaj will intentionally obscure itself, get out of the limelight and try to focus itself more as a community of internal discussion and camaraderie for LGBT folks, and those who are unhappy with that will attempt to build a new 196 on an instance that is less curated.
So basically Blahajzone became queer lemmyworld, when Ada’s intentions were probably more akin to queer Beehaw.
If this is the case, I do hope another public facing queerspace does take blahajzone’s place. It’s been kinda nice to see such a group just accepted as part of the larger community, and it would be a damn shame to see them become cloistered off.
I’m sure discussion here will remain pleasant and mature with no problematic views, opinions or suggestions being thrown around at all.
That’s what it has been so far, thanks for participating.
I mean more so than expected. I guess years of reddit related brainrot conditions one to expect the worst constantly.
Yeah life tends to be a little easier when you’re not constantly fighting imaginary enemies lol.
I think since blahaj has a lot of LGBT+ people and since right‐wingers has already been blaming the LGBT+ community for pedophilia, they didn’t want any more risk of the media start accusing the blahaj instance of endorsing pedophilia, so they had to act pre-emptively and defederate. I don’t really think it’s anyone’s fault, it’s just that in today’s political climate, any accusation against a group of people, even if it’s false, would end up inspiring mobs to target that group of people. I think the admins of blahaj just doesn’t want LGBT+ people get be associated with peodophiles and potentially become victims of a witchhunt against LGBT+ people.
That’s kind of a ridiculous take i think. It’s more likely that one single person has too much power and uses it to enforce their morality on others. Tale as old as time.
That was part of what I felt they’re doing, but to me the community on lemmynsfw also bothered me and I blocked it. There’s definitely something wrong and nefarious about a community who resides in legal territory but relies on an implication. It’s the same as a community of Nazis existing but using dog whistle wording to avoid anyone noticing. I’m not going to say it’s illegal, but I’m also not in support of it and I understand Blahaj doing what they did.
Excuse me but the Nazis were the ones who burned books on sex, that argument makes absolutely no sense
For those who have no idea what you are talking about.
Nazis rifling through books about sex and gender May 6 1933:
which were disposed of thusly May 11, 1933:
Whats the implication you’re referring to? I’m not completely familiar with lemmynsfw so if its something patently obvious you’ll have to forgive me for not knowing already.
Sorry, I should have been more specific in my comment. Lemmynsfw has tons of communities dedicated to women with small boobs and small/petite women. This is great, they have gorgeous bodies and they should be appreciated too! However, Lemmynsfw has a community called “fauxbait” which is… obviously not ok. I was on Reddit well before 2010, but anyone on there from that era remembers the controversy that the “jailbait” subreddit caused. In fact, to say it was a controversy is understating it… anyways, fauxbait on lemmtnsfw specifically in its sidebar says “a community dedicated to women who look underage but aren’t.” Which to me is a MASSIVE red flag. This consists of lots of porn stars and models that are petite, small, “cute” and generally flat. Again, these women should have places to post their bodies and to feel beautiful and wanted for them, however places that sexualize them for appearing underage while skirting that “legality” are not things that should be allowed. Specifically because it brings unwanted negative attention to Lemmy, provides governments and companies reasons to disallow access to Lemmy, and over all provides less desirable people with a place they feel is accepting of their views.
So, the implication is “they’re almost jailbait while legally not being such.” Which is definitely a thing. They can, I guess, have an instance where that’s allowed since it isn’t “technically” illegal but is highly immoral and questionably unethical. However, in this case all I’m saying is that I can see why Blahaj defederated from it.
That seems like one community amongst many, not the instance as a whole. Though, admittedly (as long as they’re aware of it) allowing it is an implication of support.
It’s shown up multiple times on the trending and hit page, so I imagine they’re aware of it. The excuse of it being one community amongst many though is something that Blahaj has the ability to not support. There’s a lot of instances too where we could say it’s “one bad things amongst many good things” but that doesn’t make it ok…
You feeling grody about it doesn’t make it not ok either, though…
I mean, I guess you could be ok with it if you’re a pedo. Shit like this caused massive controversy for Reddit in the beginning, and it only leads to others with worse outlooks feeling safe here. I don’t know if you were around on Reddit during the r/thedonald period but that sub bred nothing but hate that quickly found a home to radicalize on the platform. Same went with Jailbait. It spawned spacedicks and other horrendous subs.
Also, as an instance dedicated to LGBT+ what if another instance was dedicated to hatred towards LGBT+? Should Blahaj continue to federate with them? What if I open a community dedicated to “communicating about how to kill a certain group?” It’s not illegal. Freedom of speech is important after all, but maybe at some point people stop just talking about something and start acting.
While the slippery slope argument can be applied to anything at the end of the day it’s really down to something super simple. This is one instance choosing to defederate from another. That’s their choice.
I was actually against blahajzone before reading this, it does make me think twice about it as I have heard about stuff like that on lemmynsfw (not that I’ve ever been there myself mind you). I recognize that people are entitled to their own fetishes as long as it’s between consenting adults, but stuff like fauxbait and related fetishes always seem suspect, it’s definitely right on the border of something. Like, yea, you’re free to get sexually excited by whatever you want, but that looks an awful lot like… something else. However, I recognize that most people into that stuff probably aren’t actual pedophiles, just like people into other questionable fetishes (rapekink, freeuse, raceplay, etc) may not ever engage in anything illegal, but fauxbait & others sure does look like… something else.
I feel they’re just feeding into the bs outrage over this topic that people clearly want to misunderstand purposely. Kbin.social did the same thing, albeit potentially temporarily but with how much they work on the platform I feel they don’t even come around to reversing it.
Sounds a little like letting terrorists dictate how you live.
Also again, to reiterate, there is no pedo content on that community.
I mean, welcome to being queer. My sister basically has to live like that or otherwise she gets arrested or possibly murdered. The terrorist more or less do dictate her life.
Like I understand the frustration of being defederated, especially over an accusation as heavy as this. But I can’t blame the bahaj team either for trying to be extra careful of making sure their community doesn’t become a target for anyone trying to demonize them. I believe you when you say the content is legal, but it’s not going to make a difference when someone like libsoftiktok screen cap adorableporn from the blajah instance and try to twist it into making them to be pedophiles. Also unless the OP makes it clear, it’s not like the pictures themselves can vouche for their age.
Lemmynsfw enforces a policy to add age verification to many (if not all) of the posts to keep illegal shit out of the door, if pictures of adult models are not enough, them adding a link to the posts already accomplishes that task.
“We don’t negotiate with terrorists” is a good motto in movies, but in reality we negotiate with terrorists all the time, because lives are more important than pride.
The truth of reality is that compromise is the best way to find peaceful coexistence between people. The trick is to find the balance where you don’t give up too much without getting anything in return. Sadly it’s often hard to find that balance, and trial and error is often the most effective method, because so few people are willing to just discuss their insecurities and find an equitable compromise.
Unfortunately, terrorists do dictate how we live if enough people don’t stand up for us and other vulnerable minority groups.
I’m not convinced de-federating from a porn instance does any of that unfortunately.
since right‐wingers has already been blaming the LGBT+ community for pedophilia, they didn’t want any more risk of the media start accusing the blahaj instance of endorsing pedophilia, so they had to act
Innocent trans person: gets wrongly accused of pedophilia by disingenuous lying scumbag fascists as part of some stupid political culture war.
Same trans person: wrongly accuses someone else of pedophilia to appease disingenuous lying scumbag fascists as part of some stupid political culture war.
Trans rights are human rights. At the same time I think that every adult has the fundamental right to sexual self-expression, alone or among consenting adult partners. The definition and very nature of “kink” means that a person finds something erotic that other people find mundane, strange or even gross (like feet, bondage, roleplay, nylon, furry, piss play, adult diapers, etc). “Sex-positivity” means being tolerant with the fact that different people get turned on by different things, and that basically anything goes between consenting adults who are following whatever laws that happen to apply to them. Nobody has to like kink, but people ought to accept that kink is a valid form of consensual adult sexuality.
At this point, the facts seem to suggest the the lemmynsfw community in question was made up of consenting adults. And so, taking the misdirected heat off of your community by wrongly directing it at someone else’s community is indefensible to me. Nobody is being protected when false accusations fly freely and people start shoving others under the bus for political convenience.
I think the blahajzone made the wrong call here, and lemmynsfw deserve credit for sticking up for sex-positivity amongst consenting adults, especially under pressure.
Yeah no. “Needs to be purged” is not the language you’d use if you want to head off some sort of accusation. That’s just straight up personal hatred.
The purging is in reference to removing the local copies on *their *instance. Federation creates a local copy of content visited by users as a cache that is directly interated with, and then any local comments, etc. are sent out after that.
This is why posts and comments will stick around and can be interacted with still after instances defederate. Updates after defederation simply don’t make it back to the original instance because that connection no longer exists, but the local cahced copy does.
lemmy.blahaj.zone are left wing extremists with zero tolerance for anyone who doesn’t already believe what they believe. I’m not sure why they don’t just defederate themselves. They’ve been openly upset that people who disagree with them on certain issues keep finding them through the all communities tab and, gasp, disagree with them in the comments.
I don’t see how banning everyone who disagrees with you is easier than creating an insulated community of people who do agree with you, but I guess that’s their preference.
You know, it’s fine. I have no problem with it, in the end it doesn’t effect anyone does it?
Going to Lemmy to complain about “left-wing extremists” is kind of funny especially since the instance’s only real political stance is promoting gay/trans rights.
Well, if you’re from the US, then that is radical left-wing extremism, sadly. Because we’re making huge leaps backward in some places as much as we’re taking huge steps forward in others.
Blahaj only has one political* take and it’s that they support LGBTQ+ if you are shunned from that community chances are you might be the problem.
*(humans living as they please shouldn’t be political)
humans living as they please shouldn’t be political
By that logic, why is it a problem if consenting adults express themselves sexually in non-traditional ways?
Historically speaking, there has always been a lot of overlap and connection between kink and LGTBQ+ communities. There was a time not too long ago where simply being gay was considered to be not only a “sexual perversion” but also a “paraphilic disorder” by the psychiatric community. (Not advocating this viewpoint in any way, just pointing out the historical context.) Because of that, the LGTBQ+ community has basically always been an ally of the kink community, and vice versa. And if you visit a pride parade, for example, I think everyone can agree that there is a general vibe of sex-positivity and personal sexual freedom that suggests that there is no “wrong” sexual expression between consenting adults.
By that logic, why is it a problem if consenting adults express themselves sexually in non-traditional ways?
In what context are we talking and how are we presenting?
I see plenty of cis women wanting to go to the beach nearly full cheeks out but that’s considered fine? I can show my bare chest since I am not fem passing, but after a hrt will it suddenly not be fine? Our standards for whats ok and whats not are very iffy at best.
The overlap between kink and lgbtq+ I don’t see as an issue. As long as consenting adults are the ones involved and we keep minors out of it I am 100% for it.
The overlap between kink and lgbtq+ I don’t see as an issue. As long as adults are the ones involved and we keep minors out of it I am 100% for it.
Isn’t that exactly what this thread is about?
As in, blahajzone has defederated from lemmynsfw for kink content which, from what I’ve gathered, seems to consist of consenting adults only.
Sorry, I seemed to have misunderstood what you meant in relation to this thread.
You make a good point actually, I don’t typically consume NSFW so I am not too welled versed in it but it appears that the problem are models who “pass” as younger I guess? I mean I can see the slippery slope and how that might be hypocritical to the initial I stated. My opinion on that is its a slippery slope but ultimately consensual so it doesn’t bother me.
The initial point was more on the idea of lgbtq+ rights (or anyone’s rights) shouldn’t even be a political topic to begin with, as human rights shouldn’t a nuanced problem. Everyone should have a right to live how they please as long as they hurt nobody else. It shouldn’t be a question, as truthfully anyone’s existence alone shouldn’t hurt anyone else, and if it does then it sounds like the person being hurt is the actual problem.
