Sorry OP but this kinda gives “EPIC: WOKE FEMINAZI OWNED ON CAMERA” vibes.
Yeah… it can be interpreted that way. But even as a feminist myself, it is a dumb performative sort of protest. Paternal surnames are the least important fixtures of our patriarchal society, and, unless it was created wholecloth, there are no surnames that aren’t patriarchal historical lyrics, as the meme points out.
If they think their actions are having much effect, sure, but otherwise I think you’re making assumptions and overreacting. Not everything is for show, people can do things like that just because they personally want to.
The context of the meme implied she was doing it because she’s a feminist and that taking her mother’s name was somehow an expression of that. Of course she can do that, but it isn’t achieving anything if that was the goal
Okay, and? Why is your immediate thought to mock that?
I didn’t mock it. The meme did.
she is achieving and asserting herself, a right that is denied to her on most every other level.
names are symbols. taking ownership of your name may not be material, but it is meaningful. if names were meaningless, trans people wouldn’t change their names, African-American communities wouldn’t change their names, et cetera. but they do, and feminists do, because achieving oneself, having domain over oneself even to the extent of identity, is meaningful especially against a history where that right is restricted against you in favor of the dominant class.
Sure. It would be personally meaningful. Changing your name is always meaningful, I would hope. But it is not contributing to the the dismantling of the patriarchal norms. Not every action has to be, of course. But the conceit of this post is implied to be that her intention was just that, a rejection of patriarchal naming conventions. If that was her intention, it was misguided and failed to achieve that goal.
you take a conservative (lowercase c) approach to the concept more than i do, and that’s fine.
but from a holistic perspective, the very fact that we have this conversation proves my position. the symbols stand for something. they promote dialogue and awareness of patriarchal repression by subverting it. little girls can look to the woman who takes her own name and derive conviction of self worth and autonomy.
none of this means that taking one’s name is the ultimate be-all feminist act, but i just take issue with your characterization of it being “dumb performative.” i encourage you, as a self-proclaimed feminist, to reconsider heaping that kind of abuse onto people just extending their reach to where generations before was impossible. at worst you appear to be recentering patriarchal narratives, at best you’re being mean.
Yeah, I wasn’t trying to call you a misogynist, just point out how the meme might look at first glance.
Wasn’t my post, just advocating for OP
oh, right
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That’s the point, but satirically. The fact that homelander is the second frame immediately means the take is bad.
Not so sure. It may just as well be that OP thinks Homelander is the cool guy and the meme is meant unironically. Their comments here suggest that and their posts are mostly comprised of golf and borderline sexist / boomer jokes
Sweet child… The amount of people who don’t see homelander is scary
on reddit, sure. on lemmy?
Lemmy is no better than Reddit in terms of sexism and media literacy
!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world in particular has a weird propensity to anti-feminism that i don’t see elsewhere. i’ll get about 60% downvotes on this comment just as everywhere else in this thread just for saying so lol
something about the old school “relax librul it’s called dark humor” mindset is specially present here
Good point! But I also never saw it. Just know it from the comics and the news.
Also, the amount of people who don’t GET homeowner is scary…
Yeah, those homeowners and their… *checks notes Homes!
OP’s comments don’t seem very satyrical :')
this lol. i would not be in this comment section if OP wasn’t obviously taking the side of homelander here. if there was ever satire in the post it was lost as soon as OP got their hands on it.
I don’t think that’s obvious to anyone who hasn’t watched that movie/series/whatever. At least it wasn’t obvious to me, because I don’t know that guy.
Homelander is acting in character in this meme but Firecracker certainly is not.
I think that’s the intention, but in an ironic/satirical fashion.
It’s one of those posts that IS funny, but makes OP’s viewpoint ambiguous. And if this was reddit and then incels come out of the woodwork to support the meme.
It’s a shit post, I’ll give you that.
Nice use of super dick to deliver the uncomfortable truth.
Lol a lot of people don’t like this realization
No one is off-put by the realization. Just the attitude the post represents.
What attitude is that?
“Haha women weak patriarchy STRONK”
I guess. That’s not how i saw it.
mostly laughing at women it seems
Scratching my head trying to figure out how an undeniale fact is somehow a condemnation of women.
pointing out how someone’s mother’s last name is just their grandfather’s last name ignores the point the person was trying to make in favour of going “well akschually”.
a woman who feels more connected with her mother and prefers her last name over her father’s last name has made that decision based on her emotions associated with her family relationships. And it was a choice she had to make against the default way surnames are given.
people rarely do things like going through lengthy legal processes to get the necessary paperwork to change your last name for shit and giggles. Instead of “well askchanelyling” people’s choices, think a bit on why they made that particular choice, or you could also ask them
That character IS laughable, in all fairness.
Aren’t almost all the characters in that show awful?
Yup. She’s particularly bad, imo, because she keeps validating the crazy guy. She takes a bunch of drugs so she can lactate, because Homelander likes breastfeeding because he killed his mom during birth.
I forgot we can only laugh at men. Sorry everyone.
Today I learned that facts are viewed through the lens of an attitude
The amount of high horses in the shitpost community is much more than expected.
Isn’t it funny how a simple fact actually bothers people
It’s more that it’s kinda missing the point. Everything is something else if you try hard enough but in this case the intention behind it is to honour the mother instead of the mother and that’s still working fine.
/father ?
Fixed it haha
Its a fucking shit post. Release the pearls.
You literally commented first.
Looks like somebody doesn’t like the consequences of their actions. Poor baby.
What in the hell are you talking about? What consequences? Yeah i know you responded to me. And I told you its a shitpost, stop clenching your pearls.
Why am i explaining this very simple interaction?
Yikes.
Lol this person has some imaginary conversation going on
They are one of the best imaginary pearl clutchers on Lemmy while never getting that they are being an asshole too.
Homelander has the best guy resting bitch face I’ve ever seen.
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Well, reddit turned to shit around 2014, so the fact it still sucked around 2017 can’t be a surprise?
People definitely care, but not about which side of the family or if it comes from mommy or daddy. Most people just want an “original” name.
People literally change their names because they feel like it, so I’m sure people do care outside the Internet, specially in circumstances of abuse.
I know this is a shitposting community but these are, every goddamn one of them, the dumbest possible takes you could have opened a new year with.
A quarter century into the new millenium and our general intelligence level hasn’t budged since the ice age.
I think it’s gone down tbh. The average human is not experiencing the same novel problems that require troubleshooting and focus. A lot of thought is just decision based these days.
According to the little arrows on our comments, there were like, two people really angered by this thought that some people think the rest of people are stupid. It’s amazing.
If you didn’t know, Spanish people have two names: the first name of their father and the first name of their mother.
Since these names are their grandfathers names, here’s a better proposal : the first name of your father and the second name of your mother. In that case, your first name corresponds to a bloodline of men and your second name to a bloodline of women… Unless their was a same-sex couple in your family, obviously.
Bonus point, since you get your Y chromosome (if you have one) from your biological father and your mitochondrial DNA from your biological mother, your names correspond to your actual DNA… Unless you’re adopted or illegitimate, obviously.
You can actually chose to have them reverted (mother first, father second). Also, the wife does not take the husband’s surname.
Holy comment section batman
Jokes on you, my dad took my mom’s name
Your dad took your mother’s dads name.
Turns out it was her middle name.
not just his name, but his DNA too!
Its not an unusual thing for lesbian couples to pick a new surname for themselves.
Unpopular opinion: Last names are inherently patriarchal and so is marriage
Yeah I’ve always thought it was weird that women are supposed to give up their identity to a man to be married. I’m not really sure why hyphenated names aren’t as popular in the western world or why people don’t occasionally chose to take the woman’s name. I know that women don’t have to change their names, but then often you’ll have the kids as the same name as the father anyway but not the mother. So I’ve heard many women say that they did it so their kids would share their last name.
Hell, I don’t even like my father. But my name is who I am and I like it.
with hyphenated names: what would the children do then? you can’t keep adding more and more names like that (both practically and legally in some cases). serious question because I’ve also thought about that
You clearly haven’t met Brazilians
I think it varies with culture, but from my understanding, usually they take the first name of the two hyphens for their own marriage.
So you have John Doe and Jane Smith. They hyphenate their names as Doe-Smith and the children do as well.
Say they have a daughter Sally Doe-Smith who meets Tim Johnson-Star. So they marry and hyphenate their names as Johnson-Doe. Both Smith and Star get dropped.
Yes, in examples like this, it still ends up as getting rid of the maternal aspect of the lineage in the very end…but the point is still that both parties are keeping part of and changing another part of their names. It’s not an all or nothing total switch of identity. The lineage is male, but the here and now is an equal compromise of identity.
Not enough to balance things out
Maybe not quite, but iml it’s certainly leaps and bounds better that altering your identity entirely in submission of a partner.
My name is Maximus Decimus Arnold Garfield Butcher Smith Hendrickson Meridius, and you shall have my name.
In Canada, you legally pick up to 2 of your parents’ last names for your last name
How do hyphenated names work after the next generation? Seems like that would get out of hand quickly when people with hyphenated last names start having kids with each other.
It is weird because we as a civilization believe women are persons and corporations are not. And sooner or later, molotovs will be theown in support of this notion, since silence is being interpreted as consent.
Whoops. That was my outside voice.🪀🪀💣🪀
Sorry I’m not understanding what you mean
The reason women take their husband’s name is because they’re property, and rights to their person transfers from their father to their husband.
That’s it.
And right now (at least in the States, maybe in some parts of Europe) there are large far-right movements trying to return society to those days.
Find your crew or your fam, and have them give you your given name. Then choose your surname. Break free.
Ah ok yeah your first comment was sarcastic then haha
So, just do what a few couples in my circle of friends did and use her last name after marriage?
I would think it would be just as weird to collectively switch to matronymic last names as a society. It would make more sense to me if couples just decided which name they liked better and went with that, be it coming from the man or woman. So a more even split of that sort of pattern is what I mean.
Yeah, that’s what people do here in Germany.
Ah I didn’t know that! Interesting!
Hyphenated names are too long. One of my good friends has one and people just refer to him and his siblings by the initials of their last name, like “Tim MP”
The way that I’m gonna do it is whoever has the coolest/most unique last name is the one whose name is adopted. If they’re both equally cool, then hyphenated it is.
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Except that it’s older than that, even in Europe, there was quite some time between the Black Plague and capitalism. But they originate in China where they are much older. Sure, capitalism is composed of many aspects and maybe China had some aspect associated with capitalism back than as well and I’m not too sure about the connection between Europe and China regarding last names. I donno.
In The Second Sex, De Beauvoir quotes Engels as he argues that patriarchy (as we know it today) likely arose with the advent of private property. So there is some relation to capitalism (of which private property is a core component), but it goes back way further than the Black Plague and marking it down to “trade promotion” is over-simplistic at best in that it’s wayyyy worse than that.
What you are saying is that private property laid the basis for patriarchy and (much later) for capitalism
That is what I am quoting De Beauvoir and Engels as saying, yes.
that’s right, promoting your trade is capitalism folks
Sigh. Lemmy in a nutshell.
is that an unpopular opinion, or just a well-known fact?
Maybe all my downvotes come from people who say it’s the latter? I’ve been in bubbles that see it as a well known fact, I’ve talked to left leaning people who didn’t. Maybe it’s just a wording I used to attract attention, maybe not, we will never know for sure.
my instance doesn’t show downvotes, so all I see is that you have lots of upvotes 😊
I suspect downvotes would come from people who disagree that marriage is patriarchal, tbh - I think a lot of people don’t really understand patriarchy or feminism, so they might thing you are being hyperbolic, like claiming marriage is akin to beating your wife or something.
Or they could just be responding merely to the language and not even the content, i.e. by talking about patriarchy at all or posing it in social terms they might think you have been duped by woke propaganda.
Whether it’s an unpopular opinion just depends on what crowd you are in. I think a lot of people understand marriage is a patriarchal institution, that a patrilineal naming scheme is part of that patriarchy, etc., but I’m sure there are lots of people who think that is false, or over-stated, or who aren’t entirely sure what ten-dollar words like “patrilineal” actually mean, lol.
I think the downvotes come from a semantic disagreement, based on a strong or weak definition of the word ‘inherent’.
huh, that sounds like a rationalization, a way to find a problem with a critique that sounds more defensible or reasonable than defending patriarchy
my instance doesn’t show downvotes, so all I see is that you have lots of upvotes 😊
In that case: the majority is still upvotes so I’m not complaining or anything :)
Why would that be the case? How would marriage between two equals in a non-patriarchy be patriarchal? What about marriage between two women? What about last names in a society of beings without gender?
I think you didnt mean ‘inherently’
Okay well, whats the benefit to the male?
the patriarchy doesn’t benefit the male. in fact, most men are overall harmed by the forces of patriarchy.
the goal of patriarchy is to subjugate and repress an “other,” that is, women. it’s true that patriarchy gives privelege to men, but equating privilege and benefit is to misunderstand the core components of the system.
An aspect of patriarchy is patrilineality. Belonging to your fathers lineage rather than your mother’s or even being stripped of your heritage and being a mere adjunct to your husband isn’t materially benefiting the man but lays the ground for that
On Spain we have two last names, one for the father other for the mother.
And while before the father’s was always the first, since many years couples of newborn babies can choose the order of the surnames.
Is the latter your mother’s first or second last name?
First last name. Example:
Mother: Maria García Perez
Father: Juan Rodríguez Domínguez
Their kids can be named:
Adela García Rodríguez
or
Adela Rodríguez García
Ans once selected the order with the first kid all the kids from the same couple must follow the same order.
So it’s the mother’s father’s name, or the names of both grandfathers. Still patrilineal
I mean, if you go that way, when surnames where created in the middle ages it was the name of the man.
All spanish surnames ending in -ez mean “son of”. And it’s always male names.
But change has to start at some point.
Some cultures trace heritage both patrilineal and matrilineal, so taking the first last name of your father as your first and the second last name of your mother as your second would be that.
I’m curious, which country does it like that? Seems pretty interesting.
Unpopular opinion: Patriarchy as defined by feminists is a nebulous and unfalsifiable concept that can be replaced by “the devil” without changing the meaning of the sentence it’s used in.
Also, serious posting in a shitposting thread.
I donno but this sounds like something the devil would say
yep and it’s good that opinion stays unpopular
you could swap the subject of criticism with “the devil” in any sentence and it would be the same though?
“the devil (covid-19) caused a pandemic”
“the devil (billionaires) is pushing more people into poverty”
“the devil (adhd) is making me procrastinate doing the dishes”
“the devil (you) has really weak criticisms of feminism, since if only he read about it, he’d realise he can see and feel the effects of the patriarchy everywhere. and the way he talks right now makes me believe he only knows the concept from strawman memes”
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Which feminists are you even referring to exactly? There are different waves of feminism and different strands (like liberal feminism, marxist feminism, black feminism, …). Either you picked a few straw(wo)men who have a shitty definition or you are confused by the variety of definitions and approaches and that confuses you.
my comment was about @rooty who said “Patriarchy as defined by feminists is a nebulous and unfalsifiable concept” not you or anyone else. because of course, people who actually read any wave or subsect of feminism will immediately find feminists have a whole host of concrete and evidenced conceptions of the term patriarchy.
i was seeking to laugh at @rooty who has clearly never done any work to listen to any feminist and gets all their undestanding of it from straw man memes.
it seems people like yourself are misunderstanding my language to mean the opposite, sorry for any confusion.
Sorry, I didn’t read the username and thought it’s rooty again
ohh that might explain some of the other downvotes too lol
In these examples you used “the devil” as a placeholder for explainable phenomena with varying causes, none of them being unfalsifiable. Now consider the following sentence:
“The wage gap is causes by the patriarchy” – Surely there are no complex causes being substituted by a nebulous concept here, is it?
the concept is only “nebulous” to people who are talking out of their asses, when they haven’t even bothered to look past the word definition and strawman memes about the patriarchy
man, please, stop making yourself look like a fool, go read about it, it’s really not that hard
none of us would judge you @Rooty@lemmy.world if you picked up and perused this free copy of Feminism is for Everybody by bell hooks right now. in fact that would be really cool.
When people get married they should come up with a completely new last name for them both.
My wife and I actually did this, sort of. Not a completely new name, but we took her grandmother’s name, rather than either of ours. Or, her great grandfather’s name, I suppose.
Introducing Mr and Mrs. KoboldCoterie!
We should use uuids
There’s even a website cataloguing them all! https://everyuuid.com/
I identify myself as a ULID.
came here to make this exact comment, was delighted it already exists XD
Calm down Enoch Root
our beautiful baby boy Robert 3de2d34e-a089-4a5a-acd8-b00d7c7eb07a
I mean it’s not far off from Musk’s X AE ZigZag VII Advent Children and Kkkopernicus Diceware Password kids.
Oh yeah, little Bobby 3d we call him
UUID me daddy
In Germany the current government had the idea (but never follow through on it) to allow a married couple to form a new last name based on their last names. Funnily enough the article mentions that this meshing of names is already possible and getting more popular in the USA and Great Britain.
No thanks. I don’t care what my hypothetical spouse wants to do with their last name but I’m not changing mine. Sounds like a pain in the ass.
It is a pain in the ass, a burden that is put on the woman. Men don’t even have to consider changing their last name if they don’t want to, (straight, married) women have to consider if they will betray expectations by not taking her husband’s last name.
The only reason I wouldn’t want to take my partner’s name, or have the partner take mine, is the same reason I wouldn’t want to blend. It’s just a headache to make sure everything is changed. It’s why you see a lot of people who published research before their marriage continue to publish under the same name even if they changed their name. It’s a major hassle.
Sure it’s a headache. So why does the woman have to do it? I think either keep your names as is or both people change.
I think either keep your names as is
Uh… that was exactly what I said…
So why does the woman have to do it?
And that was exactly what I was saying I wouldn’t do…
My wife was made fun of for her last name until she was like 25 (her social group sucked), so she was delighted to changed her name when I asked her if we were going to use mine or hers. I still don’t entirely mind changing mine or keeping it: I’d gotten a few public works built around town and one of them was named after me, and if I took her name the chances of getting them to change the name of that shelter were fuck all. You can only be the center of the universe for so long. So it just kind of worked out for both of us.
Terrible idea. People clearly already struggling at naming kids. Coming up with a family name will be endless letters making the wrong sound, random sections being ‘silent’, so many puns or references to things, corporate advertising “oh it’s the X.com family!”… Terrible, just terrible.
Are you saying that the people who came up with the original surnames are more qualified than people today? At least with my idea when people come up with a new name they have to use it themselves, rather than their defenseless children.
We could always do what Iceland does.
I’m sure that will scale up to much larger populations without issues.
A coworker of mine did this. He and his new wife took parts of their last names and blended them together to create a unique new last name for both of them.
That’s very cool, i like that
I hope it wasn’t a tragedeigh
A lot of last names here are frozen patronyms (e.g. at some point some dude named Hans had kids; now there are lots of people calling themselves his son, Hansen) or place names. I kinda like the place name bit: Just give kids last names to a place they have a connection to. Where they were born or conceived or something.
Dragon Rider The Bathroom At The Roller Rink
“London”: Not too bad, works ok.
“Climax”: …
“Tallahassee”: Pretty frickin’ awesome as a nickname but not sure formally.
“Syracuse”: I syr-acuse that of sounding dumb.
But regardless, besides all the “Von” or “De” or whatever names I’m willing to bet that modified or old spelling last names based on places are totally a thing that we also just decided to stop doing.
Yeah, like the -berg names (e.g. Stoltenberg), it’s likely the family farm if you go far enough back. My family has a name that’s an island and the settlement on it. Taking a profile picture next to the town sign that’s also our last name is pretty common (for a name of a few hundred people).
Where they were born or conceived or something.
“Hi there, Mr. Dumpsterbach.”
Also jobs. Lots of millers, smiths and hunters etc
Ironically no one had the last name of “prostitute” or “harlot”
I, John Prostitute, am offended by this.
Better than Whorson at least.
coughHookercough
The job was named after Joseph Hooker
Sorry, but unfortunately I got interested and followed your link:
There is a popular legend that “hooker” as a slang term for a prostitute is derived from his last name[26] because of parties and a lack of military discipline at his headquarters near the Murder Bay district of Washington, DC. Some versions of the legend claim that the band of prostitutes that followed his division was derisively referred to as “General Hooker’s Army” or “Hooker’s Brigade”.[27] However, the term “hooker” was used in print as early as 1845, years before Hooker was a public figure,[28] and is likely derived from the concentration of prostitutes around the shipyards and ferry terminal of the Corlear’s Hook area of Manhattan in the early to middle 19th century, who came to be referred to as “hookers”.
lack of military discipline at his headquarters near the Murder Bay district
To be fair, he could probably have chosen a better place to set up…
You’d end up with lots of people in each area having the same name.
And we do! The most common name in the Netherlands translates to “the Frisian”.
Conceived? You really want to be named after the motel your daddy did a big cummy in your mommy’s pussy?
Are you familiar with the Paris Hilton?
It’s tacky, but let’s be honest, that’s the least tacky thing about her.
I think she gets a pass for the last name seeing as the hotels are named after her family and not the other way around.
Not sure if she was conceived in Paris. I’ll ask her next time I’m having a three-way again with her and your mom.
That last sentence is cursed.
If you say so, Ms. Motel 6.
Certainly in the long past your last name was probably derived from the town or area that you lived in. I don’t think it would work today.
🎤 My name is chika-chika Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch
Yeah, my mom said she didn’t care about taking my dad’s last name, that it didn’t matter since, in her words “women don’t have last names anyway” they are just a way of tracing men’s family lines.
why yall having a war in the comments? its a silly meme about last names, who the actual fuck cares?
Probably anyone who ever gotten any pressure about handling last-names after marriage might care. It’s definitely something that some people care about, and some people cop flack for their decision.
The joke is just a joke, but the problem is that this joke punches down. That’s generally poor form.
if you are getting “punched down” (aka offended) by a joke posted on lemmy, by a random guy, you should realize that it is simply not that deep
yeah i didnt get any pressure about handling last names, so you might say “you just dont get it” but when i go to linuxmemes and see a meme about a distro i use, i dont go to comments and start a war about it bc it is just a fucking meme, same concept
if you are getting “punched down” (aka offended) by a joke posted on lemmy, by a random guy, you should realize that it is simply not that deep
I think you’ve misunderstood what punching down means. It has nothing to do with being offended. It’s about the relationship between the person telling the joke and the subject of the joke. For example, it’s generally fine for anyone to make jokes mocking rich people; but its not ok to make jokes mocking poor people unless you yourself are very obviously a poor person.
People online do not understand jokes. I refuse to believe anyone in real life would be this dense.
In real life people would see this lol and move on, on the internet they write dissertations about some BS to virtue signal to other strangers how enlightened they are… 🙄
Truth Social is a better fit for y’all
Because their entire poltical and world view is based on identity politics. They cannot simply say “that joke sucked” and move on, they have to make it into yet another virtue signalling exercise and lecture everyone else because that is the behaviour they associate with being a “good person”.
