And this is why I think plug in hybrids are the way to go for most new car buyers for the next few years. Unfortunately greenies think im a plague doctor peddling useless herbs and the diesel heads are convinced that I invented a way to replace testicles with soybeans.
A PHEV uses 5x less critical material than a compatible BEV, and people with one of these can be in ev mode 80% of the time or at least run the gas engine but get way higher carbon efficiency than ICE alone.
Unfortunately the new IRA bill nuked federal rebate for most of them and dealers are still charging an arm, leg, kidney, and firstborn in dealer markups
Chances are you need much less range than you think 330 days out of 356, and on the remaining you wouldn’t mind a coffee break to stretch your legs once in a while. Yes that even applies to travelling salesmen and the like: Go stretch your legs and run some numbers while you charge (but the X days out of Y will look different).
Where things get actually problematic is when people can’t plug their EV in at home over night or at work, though for city commuters that too might be possible to alleviate by making a picnic tour to a charger once in a while. But yes generally speaking most places need better infrastructure in parking garages and stuff.
More importantly, what we need much more of is not cars but public transit, well-maintained, reliable, frequent, and cheap at the point of use (roads get cross-financed by taxes so tell me one reason why not to do it for public transit), non-rural areas not supporting that kind of service need to be reshaped into being dense enough, as well as be walkable, that includes there being places you want to walk to, like schools, supermarkets, corner stores, hair stylists, restaurants, in a nutshell the kind of commercial activity you want in a residential area (looking at you, North American suburbia, where good living is illegal)
Because you know no matter how much I like the concept of EVs, and having spent ~2000 bucks on a license 20 years ago, I’ve never owned a car. I don’t need one. When I have something large or heavy to transport I take a handcart with me on the five minute walk to supermarket or parcel pickup, respectively. Somehow I never get stuck in traffic doing that.
on the remaining you wouldn’t mind a coffee break to stretch your legs once in a while. Yes that even applies to travelling salesmen and the like: Go stretch your legs and run some numbers while you charge (but the X days out of Y will look different).
Forget “wouldn’t mind”, you (one) absolutely owe it to other road users to take those breaks. It just isn’t safe to drive continuesly for hours and hours without them. You aren’t magically the exception, you are a human being like everyone else and you are not a safe driver after hours of unbroken driving. Without exception (and that does include professional drivers who sadly are contractually required to do so.)
No issues with mine, but I have a standard trans. Electric motors in hybrids/EVs are practically zero maintenance, and they reduce the peak stress on the ICE, so you extend the life of your conventional power train components. Regenerative braking also majorly extends the life of your braking components.
I’d rather see the gas engine as nothing but a glorified generator and have everything run off of electric rather than try to smash together two different drivetrains into some sort of franken-car like they are now.
Toyota hybrids are the most common taxis in urban areas of the UK, they absolutely eat up miles with no issues. If “every hybrid has super pricey transmission/clutch issues” then cab companies with razor thin margins wouldn’t be using them, pretty simple logic
Cab companies can afford to hire a dedicated mechanic to handle those kinds of problems. That makes even more sense when you consider they purchase mostly similar models over the years. An individual finding a transmission problem will take it to somewhere that is likely inexperienced with those problems and they get overcharged as a result.
It’s pretty dependent on driving conditions. If you do a lot of stop/start driving, they’ll die sooner. 75% of my miles are freeway driving since I have a bitch of a commute, so my battery is still okay. I’ll probably need to replace it in the next 40-50k miles
But what about the days that you do, do you have a separate car? Rent a car for any medium to long distance road trips? In the US the family unit is too spread out, hybrids are perfect for people that want the best of both worlds.
For my wife and I, we already have a second car we use for those longer trips. I suspect this is the case for a lot of people, including a family in my neighborhood that has a Tesla. So our daily driver gasoline car could easily be replaced by an electric car with essentially no change to our routines. And honestly a 200 mile range covers even the longer trips we sometimes take that gasoline car on. (Assuming that’s a real 200 miles. If it’s actually 150 then we’re going to need a charge.)
True, but after 200 miles I like to stretch my legs and hit the loo, which take about the same time it takes to charge back up again on a rapid charger.
That is three times a year though. The rest of the year I spend zero minutes tanking up. I just plug it in at home or work and pay fuck-all to drive around.
So realistically you spend much more time tanking up than I do.
I’m always reminded of the YouTube channel technology connections and his famous line “but sometimes…!”
It really is a non issue almost all of the time but people always act like they will spend 60 minutes at a fast charger every day.
My wife drives a Tesla and I drive an ICE SUV. We both drive a lot including long commutes. We have kids and busy lives which means frequently tight schedules to get to drop people off before work or get somewhere to pick them up or something else up after. Once you pick people up, you often have to get them somewhere and, once you do, you may not be able to leave until the next tight turn-around.
Having to stop for gas when I do not have time is a frequent problem for me. I greatly envy my wife who leaves every day with a full charge and who almost always manages to go everywhere she needs to go without running out. She “refuels” at home. I go further on a tank but I cannot refuel at home and so filling up is just another think that has to fit into the schedule.
For most “long” trips, we take her car. Far cheaper and again usually easy to charge overnight. Travelling between cities, we often combine grabbing food or taking a break from driving with stopping a charger. It does take a bit more planning but we have a lot more control over our time in these situations. In practice, it does not feel like much of an imposition.
I would take not having to worry about keeping the tank full day to day for a bit of extra planning on longer trips any day.
That is the stress and coordination aspect. Absolute time spent, it is not even close. An EV commuter spends way, way less time “filling up”. On most days, it is literally just a few seconds when leaving or returning home.
2 EV’s, one kid and one on the way. It’s really a non-issue.
Power here is stupud cheap and I charge for free at work.
We did some quick maths recently and figured we’ve spent less than 100€ on 30.000 km driven charging at home.
That’s less than two tanks of gas on any ICE vehicle. I’m never ever going back to it, other than on my motorcycle.
we often combine grabbing food or taking a break from driving with stopping a charger. It does take a bit more planning but we have a lot more control over our time in these situations. In practice, it does not feel like much of an imposition.
While you might decide not to, you ought to be planning those same stops irrespective of fuel or range. Even if you have a magic sci-fi car with it’s own micro cold fusion generator good for a 1000 years, you should still be planning the exact same rest stops for your driver.
One thing I think about though is all the extra maintenance that goes into having a gas engine. It would be nice to commit and have the easier future maintenance.
And this is why I think plug in hybrids are the way to go for most new car buyers for the next few years. Unfortunately greenies think im a plague doctor peddling useless herbs and the diesel heads are convinced that I invented a way to replace testicles with soybeans.
A PHEV uses 5x less critical material than a compatible BEV, and people with one of these can be in ev mode 80% of the time or at least run the gas engine but get way higher carbon efficiency than ICE alone.
Unfortunately the new IRA bill nuked federal rebate for most of them and dealers are still charging an arm, leg, kidney, and firstborn in dealer markups
Because one company has a rosy range algorithm you think hybrids are the ex to go?
What are “critical materials”?
Chances are you need much less range than you think 330 days out of 356, and on the remaining you wouldn’t mind a coffee break to stretch your legs once in a while. Yes that even applies to travelling salesmen and the like: Go stretch your legs and run some numbers while you charge (but the X days out of Y will look different).
Where things get actually problematic is when people can’t plug their EV in at home over night or at work, though for city commuters that too might be possible to alleviate by making a picnic tour to a charger once in a while. But yes generally speaking most places need better infrastructure in parking garages and stuff.
More importantly, what we need much more of is not cars but public transit, well-maintained, reliable, frequent, and cheap at the point of use (roads get cross-financed by taxes so tell me one reason why not to do it for public transit), non-rural areas not supporting that kind of service need to be reshaped into being dense enough, as well as be walkable, that includes there being places you want to walk to, like schools, supermarkets, corner stores, hair stylists, restaurants, in a nutshell the kind of commercial activity you want in a residential area (looking at you, North American suburbia, where good living is illegal)
Because you know no matter how much I like the concept of EVs, and having spent ~2000 bucks on a license 20 years ago, I’ve never owned a car. I don’t need one. When I have something large or heavy to transport I take a handcart with me on the five minute walk to supermarket or parcel pickup, respectively. Somehow I never get stuck in traffic doing that.
Forget “wouldn’t mind”, you (one) absolutely owe it to other road users to take those breaks. It just isn’t safe to drive continuesly for hours and hours without them. You aren’t magically the exception, you are a human being like everyone else and you are not a safe driver after hours of unbroken driving. Without exception (and that does include professional drivers who sadly are contractually required to do so.)
hard pass on hybrids. Every hybrid I’ve known if has had super pricey transmission/clutch issues. I’ve had too much bad luck with them.
I would go full EV or full gasoline/diesel before going hybrid
No issues with mine, but I have a standard trans. Electric motors in hybrids/EVs are practically zero maintenance, and they reduce the peak stress on the ICE, so you extend the life of your conventional power train components. Regenerative braking also majorly extends the life of your braking components.
I’d rather see the gas engine as nothing but a glorified generator and have everything run off of electric rather than try to smash together two different drivetrains into some sort of franken-car like they are now.
Yup, it’s cramming two full systems and a not so simple transmission into one car. The great thing with EVs is the design simplicity.
I think hybrids have it the worst, twice as much mechanical systems where parts can fail.
Toyota hybrids are the most common taxis in urban areas of the UK, they absolutely eat up miles with no issues. If “every hybrid has super pricey transmission/clutch issues” then cab companies with razor thin margins wouldn’t be using them, pretty simple logic
Cab companies can afford to hire a dedicated mechanic to handle those kinds of problems. That makes even more sense when you consider they purchase mostly similar models over the years. An individual finding a transmission problem will take it to somewhere that is likely inexperienced with those problems and they get overcharged as a result.
Interesting! It’s purely anecdotal, but I’m heading to 200k miles on my 2016 Prius and it has yet to need anything beyond maintenance.
Same. 2014 (I think) Prius and has been awesome. No issues, just regular serving.
I’ve heard the batteries need replacing around the time you have had the car. Is this not the case?
It’s pretty dependent on driving conditions. If you do a lot of stop/start driving, they’ll die sooner. 75% of my miles are freeway driving since I have a bitch of a commute, so my battery is still okay. I’ll probably need to replace it in the next 40-50k miles
Most people don’t actually need much range most days. Don’t forget you start every day with a full battery.
Not everyone can charge overnight, so most are not starting with full battery
Some can’t, most can.
But what about the days that you do, do you have a separate car? Rent a car for any medium to long distance road trips? In the US the family unit is too spread out, hybrids are perfect for people that want the best of both worlds.
For my wife and I, we already have a second car we use for those longer trips. I suspect this is the case for a lot of people, including a family in my neighborhood that has a Tesla. So our daily driver gasoline car could easily be replaced by an electric car with essentially no change to our routines. And honestly a 200 mile range covers even the longer trips we sometimes take that gasoline car on. (Assuming that’s a real 200 miles. If it’s actually 150 then we’re going to need a charge.)
You just stop at a charger and charge the car, then continue driving. Sort of like how a gas car stops for gas.
Takes about 4 minutes too fill my gas tank
True, but after 200 miles I like to stretch my legs and hit the loo, which take about the same time it takes to charge back up again on a rapid charger.
That is three times a year though. The rest of the year I spend zero minutes tanking up. I just plug it in at home or work and pay fuck-all to drive around.
So realistically you spend much more time tanking up than I do.
I’m always reminded of the YouTube channel technology connections and his famous line “but sometimes…!” It really is a non issue almost all of the time but people always act like they will spend 60 minutes at a fast charger every day.
100%
My wife drives a Tesla and I drive an ICE SUV. We both drive a lot including long commutes. We have kids and busy lives which means frequently tight schedules to get to drop people off before work or get somewhere to pick them up or something else up after. Once you pick people up, you often have to get them somewhere and, once you do, you may not be able to leave until the next tight turn-around.
Having to stop for gas when I do not have time is a frequent problem for me. I greatly envy my wife who leaves every day with a full charge and who almost always manages to go everywhere she needs to go without running out. She “refuels” at home. I go further on a tank but I cannot refuel at home and so filling up is just another think that has to fit into the schedule.
For most “long” trips, we take her car. Far cheaper and again usually easy to charge overnight. Travelling between cities, we often combine grabbing food or taking a break from driving with stopping a charger. It does take a bit more planning but we have a lot more control over our time in these situations. In practice, it does not feel like much of an imposition.
I would take not having to worry about keeping the tank full day to day for a bit of extra planning on longer trips any day.
That is the stress and coordination aspect. Absolute time spent, it is not even close. An EV commuter spends way, way less time “filling up”. On most days, it is literally just a few seconds when leaving or returning home.
Yupp that resonates with us.
2 EV’s, one kid and one on the way. It’s really a non-issue.
Power here is stupud cheap and I charge for free at work.
We did some quick maths recently and figured we’ve spent less than 100€ on 30.000 km driven charging at home.
That’s less than two tanks of gas on any ICE vehicle. I’m never ever going back to it, other than on my motorcycle.
While you might decide not to, you ought to be planning those same stops irrespective of fuel or range. Even if you have a magic sci-fi car with it’s own micro cold fusion generator good for a 1000 years, you should still be planning the exact same rest stops for your driver.
And it takes about half an hour to recharge the driver back to the same level of safety as when they started.
On the days that you do you can use fast chargers. People talk like it’s 10 years ago. Nowadays you can charge back to 80% in like half an hour.
…chargers.
A hybrid does not use 5x less materials than an EV unless your car weighs 1/5th that of a normal car.
My bolt weighs 3600 lbs. Including battery. Does your car weigh 720 pounds?
“critical materials”
Could mean lithium or cobalt or something that’s harder to come by than steel or aluminum
That’s the problem when people just invent words. Nobody knows what they mean.
Lithium is not hard to come by.
Cobalt is used sparingly in batteries or not at all. You know where it’s used a lot? Gasoline desulfurization. So your hybrid uses up a ton of Cobalt.
One thing I think about though is all the extra maintenance that goes into having a gas engine. It would be nice to commit and have the easier future maintenance.