What an absolute nightmare. Those poor people are caught in the middle of a conflict they can do nothing about. It’s horrific.
I find it both horrifying and nauseating at the same time. This makes me sad to be a human being.
Wait until you realize how many species we’ve driven to extinction, and how many more we have yet to kill, before we kill ourselves due to runaway climate collapse. That’s the shit that makes me sad to be human.
Human beings are just about the worst thing to happen to this planet.
This makes me sad to be a human being.
and wonder why you don’t see more
The answer is in the video. The media rarely shines a light on those groups.
Sometimes they do though. Remember the media response to the Turkey earthquakes? I remember heaps of international rescue teams getting the spotlight.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Hamas hasn’t yet released the fuel they’ve been hoarding?
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Have they been hoarding it in the hospital?
Holy fuck, Lemmy is being brigaded by the pro-israel trolls.
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Don’t know if this thread was linked elsewhere but the shift in sentiment in newer posts are jarring
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Yeah, why don’t the Palestinians give up and just accept being ethnically cleansed? I mean, they’re Arabs why don’t they just move in with the other Arabs, they’re all one big homogeneous group, right?
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And if they are not let back in who will hold Israel accountable? Many of the people being bombed refuse to leave their homes for this very reason (as well as the south getting targeted by bombs/no shelter/no supplies either way so might as well keep whatever semblance of dignity they have left). They don’t trust Israel to allow them to return home due to historical precedent.
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Tell that to the people that refuse to leave their house due to what I previously described. The last election in Gaza was in 2006. The average resident of Gaza was about 1 year old at the time. This conflict did not start yesterday. The Gazan population does not trust the international community to protect their right to return and they sure don’t trust the Israelis.
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You can’t carpet bomb civilians then blame a country for not accepting 2 million refugees. Leveling the sector with air strikes is not a requirement.
Right now, civilians don’t have a choice to leave the warzone. That’s intentional thaks to
Hamas, Netanyahu,Egypt, Jordan, etc.Ftfy
Those who don’t want to leave can stay, others shouldn’t be forced to become meat shields in a war they didn’t want.
If it was any other country your argument would be substantive. But we are talking about Israel and Palestine. Anyone who leaves will not be able to return. That’s how it’s always been. And for the Palestinians, their land is their existence. They will not give it up. They know the second they leave, it’s been lost.
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Jordan won’t take them because the Palestinians assassinated their king, created a civil war in Jordan, and tried to assassinate their next king.
Lebanon won’t take them because they keep joining Hezbollah.
Egypt won’t take them because they keep joining up with Muslim Brotherhood and trying to destabilize the government.
Syria won’t take them because they’re in the middle of a civil war.
Iran won’t take them because they’re more useful as a tool to destabilize Israel.Am I missing anyone?
Because then they risk becoming the target of what Israel buys with the 50 billion dollars Joe Biden just sent to them.
Edit: if to of
The people who will leave Gaza are never gonna be let back in. The neighboring Arabic countries already have lots of Palestinian refugees.
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Because the neighboring countries did that in the past in various forms and it fucked them all up in some manner. These are not normal people. They’re twisted by decades of living under war or terrorist rule. Their population is so young because everyone old died that half the people alive never actually experienced a stable life. They know nothing but this. As a result they are really hard to integrate.
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@rivermonster most of them are not vocal about it right now. Many of them have normalised relations with Israel in the last few years.
They also hold the belief that allowing Israel to chase all the Palestinians out of Palestine and grab the land would be the end of the Two State Solution, turning the latter into permanent refugees.
In practical terms given Israel’s blockades the only country in a position to take them is Egypt.
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Egypt already hosts 9 million refugees, taking another 2 million would be politically unpopular with voters.
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Egypt is also afraid of ending up in a border war with Israel (which would happen if any of the new refugees attacked Israel).
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Egypt also wants the Two State Solution
Here is an article that might interest you: Why Egypt Won’t Open The Border To Its Palestinian Neighbours
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@rivermonster I always wonder whether people who want “Arab nations” to take in more refugees are also petitioning their own representatives to take in more themselves.
Pretty much all the biggest refugee-hosting nations are poorer nations.
Nevertheless, this article might give you food for thought: The Growing Significance Of Malaysia and Indonesia’s Non-recognition of Israel.
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@rivermonster yeah that’s getting really bad lately.
I’m in New Zealand and I want more refugees from everywhere, including Palestine. It’s frustrating.
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@rivermonster to be fair to the US it didn’t actually sign the UN convention on refugees that the rest of the West signed. But I still share your frustration.
I wish we could all work together on this stuff. Instead we have had some shining examples recently of how countries who do take people from warzones get left to take a huge hit, like poor Bangladesh struggling alone to administer Coxs Bazar (the biggest refugee camp in the world, now home to the Rohingya), or the Kurds who bizarrely were left trying to feed and shelter surrendered ISIS fighters from all over the world.
Realistically a governments first responsibility before anything else is the physical safety of it’s citizenship.
If you know a percentage of a population are religious extremists which will never integrate into your society and will probably pose a risk, then how can you, as a government, take them in?
It’s a hard sell any way you slice it.
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I really hope israel will loose their wildcard and be accountable for all this shit. Just remove their privileges!
You recall that Hamas attacked Israel in the bloodiest assault in history, right?
You guys make me embarrassed to call myself a lefty.
Well gee, that sure does give Isreal the right to do ethnic cleansing. It’s self defense after all so everything is permissible. /s
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The intentional misunderstanding you’re feigning is disgusting.
The pot calling the kettle black
Hamas doing something horrible doesn’t make it OK to starve the entirety of Gaza though, not everyone inside Gaza is Hamas
Speaking of, Hamas has over 1MM liters of fuel, and ample supplies of fresh water, that they refuse to distribute in Gaza. They also refuse to return hostages, which would also immediately lift the siege.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-says-gaza-photos-show-half-million-liters-of-fuel-held-by-hamas/
Edit to add:
The reason they stockpiled so much is their tunnel ventilation systems run on generators (which is also the reason Israel is trying to deny them fuel, because tunnel fighting is a nightmare and that’s what is coming)
Here’s a great video with more info https://www.youtube.com/live/xfc0nHLgDuY?si=8P-MddAIFXsFt-mA
Terrible thing Hamas has done
Hamas doing something horrible doesn’t make it OK to starve the entirety of Gaza
Terrible thing Hamas is doing
It’s not unreasonable to expect an enemy government to feed their people, rather than your country
Hamas doing something horrible doesn’t make it OK to starve the entirety of Gaza
I mean we can copy the same comments to another over and over all day if ya want.
I’ve got 3 hrs til my plane boards
FWIW I’d strongly support a heavily-militarized aid station set up in the south but you know as well as I do that people would still blame Israel for Hamas gunning down people headed south.
Bloodiest assault in history? You have to be joking.
Just lovely how everybody is forgetting that Hamas is responsible for this all. They can end it any time they want, release the hostages and surrender, but they chose not to.
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“Look at what you made me do!”
Hasn’t Israel been killing them since LONG before they took hostages? Why would release them suddenly make it stop?
Prior to early October, Israel was completely out of Gaza, and was not attacking Gaza whatsoever, so no they weren’t killing them long before they took hostages.
Also the entire siege is about trying to force Hamas to give up hostages. That is literally the reason it is being done. Hamas also has massive food, water, and fuel stockpiles they refuse to share with the people they “govern”
https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-says-gaza-photos-show-half-million-liters-of-fuel-held-by-hamas/
Also they’re using that fuel to power the ventilation systems in their tunnels that run on generators
I urge you to get your source not from literally the entity being excused of genocide (or its direct allies e.i. US news outlets). they have enough money to throw so much propaganda at you that you would never believe anything else.
from one online stranger to another: using and citing sources as such is an instant discredit.
Why did they take hostage?
Because Hamas’s stated purpose is to destroy Israel, and they knew their attack would be met with reprisal, so they took hostages as human meat-shields
Just lovely how everybody is forgetting that Israel is responsible for that.
Everyone can always blame someone else, especially in this conflict. It’s time for Israel to grow up and take responsibility for its actions. They have caused harm, anger, and hatred by using terrorism (fear and violence) to enforce their rule over people. Somehow we (the US and most of the west) provide them with resources and weapons though. How fucked up is that?
Hamas has launched in the realm of 7000 rockets at Israel civilians since October 7. But hey, keep blaming it all on Israel. Lets make antisemitism cool again, you are doing your part already.
And as always: Propose an alternative to how Israel should defend itself instead. Still haven’t heard anybody give one and it has been weeks.
Commiting genocide against a civilian population is not self defense. How can you read an article like the OP and just be completely empty inside? How broken are you?
Commiting genocide against a civilian population is not self defense.
For one, they don’t.
And as always: Propose an alternative to how Israel should defend itself instead. Still haven’t heard anybody give one and it has been weeks.
But keep listening to that Hamas propaganda it’s totally not rotting your brain away.
An alternative? There are infinite. They can start cooperating and make a good will gesture of returning occupied lands back to the Palestinian people. They can stop colonizing and murdering innocent civilians (which isn’t only just now happening, it’s constant in occupied lands). They can loosen restriction on travel between Gaza and Israel.
The solution is to improve relations with the people. Attacking them and killing civilians only causes more hate, which causes more violence. It isn’t defence. It’s genocide. They get Hamas to attack and they get to kill more Palestinians.
They tried that, didn’t work, each time they were meet with more Hamas terrorism. What’s your second suggestion from the pool of infinite alternative?
Commiting genocide against a civilian population is not self defense.
Only Hamas is doing that, though.
Isreal is indiscriminately bombing civilian/Palestinian population centers and diving people out of their homes.*
What Isreal is doing absolutely falls under the category of genocide.
Kill civilians is indefensible.
Isreal is indiscriminately bombing civilian population centers and diving out people based on ethnicity.
These two things are mutually exclusive
Why did you start counting at October 7th? Palestine, Hamas, and Israel have existed much longer and been in conflict much longer.
Last I saw, which was before this conflict, Israel has killed 27 (I think, maybe 23 or something around there) Palestinians for every Israeli killed.
Last I saw, which was before this conflict, Israel has killed 27
Is that a reliable figure?
It was UN data. I assume it’s as reliable as it can be. I’ll try to find it again.
Edit: 22.4x here.
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All right, thank you for the source. It indeed seems reliable.
Yes.
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It’s hard to go against them in the West.
The right hate Muslims so side with Israel.
The left hate to be called antisemites, so hand-wring over civilian deaths, but ultimately side with Israel.
Who are these voices on the “left” that you say are supporting Israel?
And this is where you accuse anybody right of being a full communist of not being left enough, so we can save ourselves that interaction.
They won’t. The extermination of Palestinians has been a stated goal of Israel and its allies for decades.
They’re not going to be punished for pulling the trigger.
This is the full transcript of the recording between an Israeli IDF officer and a resident of northern Gaza
“Hello?”
“Muhammad?”
“Yes”
“How are you?”
“Yes”
"This is an officer from the IDF calling you. For your own safety I’m asking you to go to Khan Yunis as fast as possible "
“Where to?”
“In the direction of Khan Yunis. ASAP. I don’t want you to put yourself at risk, that’s why I’m telling you to go there.”
“All the roads are blocked”
“Where you are right now isn’t safe, you need to… blocked where? Who blocked it? Hamas?”
“Yes”
“What?”
“Yes, that’s correct”
“Where did they block the road?”
“At Salah ad-Din”
“Salah ad-Din?”
“Yeah”
“How did they block it?”
“They’re just forcing people to go back home”
“Are they putting cars on the road? Police cars or…”
“Yes yes”
“How exactly? Explain it to me. Please, did you see it with your own eyes?”
“In a car, people are going south and they’re just bringing them back home”
“How did they block the road?”
“They’re shooting at people”
“Shooting what? Are they shooting at people that want to leave?”
“Yes yes yes”
https://twitter.com/ItayBlumental/status/1717466384794300882?t=7HRQJ5h29HRlfhN1fCl3mQ&s=19
And then what did the IDF forces do to Northern Gaza?
Ask people to leave for their own protection before intense urban fighting
The Israeli policy of bombing first and asking later makes this impossible.
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That’s a pay for supporting terrorism
You sound like a highly educated individual
Ahh yes. All of these children getting killed is justified.
you’re just cringe and illogical at this point, these aren’t military hospitals.
Even if they were military hospitals, bombing military hospitals is a war crime.
Further proof Hamas terrorists hate Gazan Palestinians as much as they hate everyone else.
*People are downvoting because they refuse to admit Hamas terrorists use Palestinians as shields only; without a care for civilian safety as a tool to protect themselves.
even if that was true, the other side could just stop hitting the shield all the time and do precise targeting.
It’s true.
This is the thing. Palestinians aren’t treated as humans, but as tool or a weapon.
Even the countries that supposedly support Palestine, not a single of them offers to take refugees.
The truth is they hate Palestinians too (wrong Muslim sect) they just hate Jews a little bit more than them, but they have no problem if both kill each other.
WTF are you talking about?
Those countries don’t offer to take them in because they will not be let back after this is over.
The majority of Palestinians are sunni, and even if they weren’t, that never really mattered to any country besides Iran.
And the countries of the Levant are known for being very secular, unlike Isn’trael.
Again, treating them like tools.
If a country is accepting refugees it is assumed those people will live in your country. Those countries won’t accept them as refugees, because they hate them, and don’t really want to help, they want Israel to burn, and if it takes Palestinians with them “even better”.
That’s the truth, about “supporting” Palestine by those Muslim countries.
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wrong Muslim sect
Where did you pick up that idea? Most Palestinians are Sunni just like their neighbours.
Sorry. I oversimplified it. The ethnicity (and racism) and also prior experience helping also matters.
Supposedly Egypt is also Suni, but not only they don’t want let refugees in, or even accept the Gaza strip. US had to negotiate with them to let humanitarian aid in.
Iran which looks like it had part behind this attack and supposedly are supporters of Palestinians, similarly won’t do anything to help.
Their sympathy with Palestine is only when western cameras are rolling.
What do you mean? The majority of palestinian are sunni muslim like the majority of arab countries and the vast majority of palestinian refugees outside of palestinian territory/israel are in the neighboring arab countries (albeit in horrible living conditions in refugee camps most of the time).
wrong Muslim sect
There’s a bit of that but only as far as Lebanon is concerned, because Hezbollah is Shia and Palestinian Muslims (and especially Hamas) are mostly Sunni and there will likely be a fight for power between Hezbollah and Hamas if the latter ever infiltrate Lebanon, because for the past 13 centuries there has never been peace on the same soil between Shia and Sunni armed groups, which is why Lebanon is not opening its doors to Palestinians.
With regards to Egypt, sect isn’t really the issue as both are Sunni. However, the military that is ruling Egypt has a very rough history with the Muslim Brotherhood (which was very violent back then, almost nothing to do with Morsi’s Muslim Brotherhood) from which Hamas was born, so they likely don’t want Hamas terrorists infiltrating Egypt either.
So neither Egypt nor Lebanon want Palestinians as they’re placing their security and more importantly their political interests above Palestinian lives.
Blame the world’s leader and the people that think they should be supporting them.
Take matters into your own hands. Change is now if you make the change. Live for reality and not tradition. Bring on the war.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Hospitals in Gaza are ceasing to function because they are running out of water and fuel for generators, while being overwhelmed by huge numbers of casualties and civilians seeking shelter from Israeli bombing.
No new fuel has been allowed into Gaza since the 7 October Hamas attack on Israel, starving hospital generators as well as the desalination and pumping plant essential to the water system.
Video posted on Tuesday showed the Indonesian hospital in north Gaza in total blackout after the generators failed, with the sole illumination from mobile phones.
Tanya Haj-Hassan, a Canadian-based paediatric intensive care and humanitarian doctor who helps run a western support network for Gaza health workers, said a third of hospitals in the territory had ceased to function.
Another member of the western support group, Omar Abdel-Mannan, a senior paediatric neurology resident at Great Ormond Street children’s hospital in London, said: “Doctors on the ground are using minimal anaesthesia so they can economise on it.”
Medical experts from the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) visited hospitals in Gaza on Tuesday and confirmed the dire reports from doctors on the ground.
The original article contains 1,174 words, the summary contains 187 words. Saved 84%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
If concessions can not be made to save these lives even with the entire world watching, then I do not want to hear falsehoods about caring for human rights.
I’ve been very cautious to reserve the word “Genocide” because I didn’t want to devalue it with hyperbole. For years, I’ve said that Israel is ethnically cleansing historic Palestine. But reading this article… I think this is the point where it becomes genocide, full and proper.
It’s shocking to bear witness to.
By the UN definition, it’s been genocide for a long fucking time
And Biden, Blinken, etc have lashed themselves to the mast next to Netanyahu and Likud, promising a blank check no matter what.
Usually I’m OK with Biden (I think the way he handled Ukraine was pretty damn good) but this is a disastrous decision on our part.
I can only hope that his tough talk in public is covering for behind the scenes pressure on Isreal to have a ceasefire.
It is genocide either way by definition. Whether it’s cultural or straight murder.
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