You know, sometimes we tend to blow a 1% change in civilian matters or large populations out of proportion. But let’s be real, that kind of small shift is like a tiny drop in a huge ocean. It doesn’t really shake things up much because there are usually more important factors or trends in the situation that make a way bigger impact.
We might make a big deal out of it, but honestly, it rarely has a significant influence on this war.
No its like a drop in a container that can hold a hundred drops.
But instead of drops its friends and families slaughtered
That is NOT a small shift. Let’s do some basic math.
In a population of 1 million, 1% is 10,000.
The 2022 population estimate by the US gov is 3 million on the west bank and 2 million on Gaza strip.
So even if we only talk about the Gaza strip, that’s 20,000 Gazans dead.
That’s equivalent to 6.6 9/11 tragedies in the space of 4 months. 9/11 had a fatality rate of 3000-odd.
Add in the west bank and that’s 50,000 dead. In four. Fucking. Months. That is the population of a decent sized city, just gone.
Not worth using your keyboard to explain this to people like them. They aren’t here to understand or empathize, they’re here to troll, minimize and make jokes.
Not worth using your keyboard to explain this to people like them. They aren’t here to understand or empathize, they’re here to troll, minimize and make jokes.
I’m here to respectfully discuss my point of view. It’s not my fault if you don’t like it, you don’t have to
I’ll bite, just in case you’re not a troll here to poison discourse.
Flipping the script, Israel has a population of a little over 7.1 million Jewish people, per Israeli census data.
Taking the semi-firm death tally from Oct7, at under 1,200, statistically speaking, those 1,139 deaths are a ‘rounding error’ (0.00016028708134%) of the Jewish population in Israel, let alone Jews all over the world.
But here’s the important part that you missed/willingly ignored - each one of those killed on Oct7 are individual tragedies, just as each of the tens of thousands of civilians deaths afterwards in Gaza are. And nearly all of this death and misery is preventable.
You’re not respectful and are “discussing” in bad faith. I won’t be debating with you further, there is a minimum of decorum required.
That’s equivalent to 6.6 9/11 tragedies
Using the Imperial system is like trying to solve a riddle wrapped in a mystery surrounded by inches and gallons but this is just gold
Words have trouble expressing how incorrect this is. An excess death rate of 1% of the total population is fucking massive and incredibly disruptive, even if it was just “1% of the population chose to voluntarily go to the local suicide booth after extensive therapy and saying goodbye to their families” rather than “1% of the population has been murdered under the rubble of their own homes by an occupying power”
It shocks me how little empathy you have.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
The Palestinian Ministry of Health in Ramallah announced in its daily update on Monday that at least 22,835 people have been killed in the besieged enclave since the beginning of the war.
With the pre-war child population of Gaza at about 1.1 million, according to UNICEF, this means that one out of every approximately 120 children living in the enclave has been killed.
International organizations have been warning that the humanitarian crisis inside Gaza is now so deep that people are at risk of dying of starvation.
UN emergency relief chief Martin Griffiths said last week that famine was “around the corner” as people in Gaza face the “highest levels of food insecurity ever recorded.”
US Secretary of State Antony Blinken said Monday that he plans to push the Israeli government “on the absolute imperative to do more to protect civilians” in Gaza during meetings Tuesday.
Blinken said he would also push Israeli officials on the need to increase humanitarian aid entering the war-torn strip “and also to talk to them about the future direction of their military campaign in Gaza.”
The original article contains 559 words, the summary contains 181 words. Saved 68%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
Israel has killed 1% of their population, thats insane! Anyone who says this isn’t genocide is an idiot or evil.
Anyone who says this isn’t genocide is an idiot or evil.
Or, you know, anyone that understands what genocide is, that it’s defined by intent and not body count. But I guess you’d rather pretend that no one reasonable could possibly disagree.
Hamas members represent ~1% of Gazans, (20-25k.) Even if Israel had perfect aim with zero collateral damage they would have killed this many.
Got it, you’re evil.
Got it, you don’t care if your accusations are accurate as long as they are cathartic. Everyone who disagrees is evil, that’s clearly why you’re always right, because you aren’t evil, do I have that correct?
And here I thought words meant things. Turns out I’m just evil. Dang.
I call you evil because you are making apologies for a Government that kills civilians. You have decided to only listen to the words of their public relations officers when determining intent and have ignored the actions and inactions that reveal their actual intentions.
-
No, I just pointed out that your claim that this is genocide is inaccurate. You can say you don’t believe them, that’s fine, but unless you can establish intent or change the legal definition of genocide you’re simply wrong about this being one.
-
Every government kills civilians in war. Few show the restraint Israel has.
-
Don’t be pissed off and call me evil just because I’m unwilling to pick up a torch and join the anti-Israel angry mob that the fediverse seems to have somehow cultivated. I’ve listened to the words and seen the actions of those who oppose Israel, and I do not find them compelling. Hamas started this and has popular support. This is what they wanted. They could end it at any time by surrendering and returning the hostages.
-
Israel’s obvious and stated intention: safety for its people. I don’t expect this conflict will end until that has been achieved. At the very least this means deposing Hamas.
-
There’s between 20,000 to 25,000 HAMAS fighters(Not including other Palestinian factions that are fighting along HAMAS like PFLP or Islamic Jihad or DFLP), even if zero innocents would die, and it’s impossible in urban combat by your logic it would still be genocide.
Source for those numbers?
Because both Hamas and Israel have reason to inflate the number of fighters.
Yes, this is the source I used, because it seems the most realistic to me.
The HAMAS in group source says that it has 40k fighters, but it seems too inflated to me. https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/how-hamas-aims-trap-israel-gaza-quagmire-2023-11-03/
That’s the thing. It’s called a war crime because it’s a crime to commit it during a war. Israel is making the calculation that even if they do kill Gazan citizens it’s ok because they got the bad guy too, it’s a terrible calculation.
Terrible number to see.
Fun (/s) fact! Israel has killed a higher percentage of Gaza’s civilian population after some four months than the percentage of the Japanese civilian population killed by the US in all of WW fucking 2, including the mass terror bombing campaigns and the atomic bombings (1.2% of the civilian population vs. .9% of the civilian population)
Israel has killed a higher percentage of Gaza’s civilian population after some four months than the percentage of the Japanese civilian population killed by the US in all of WW fucking 2, including the mass terror bombing campaigns and the atomic bombings (1.2% of the civilian population vs. .9% of the civilian population)
Where is the 1.2% figure from? This article says 1% of Gazans, (as reported by Hamas,) which includes both civilians and Hamas, (who are not civilians.)
Sources from the article also say that ~2/3 of those casualties are civilians, (which is incredible given that the average for urban combat with explosives is 90% civilian deaths.) That would put Gazan civilian deaths per capita at ~1/3 less than that of WWII Japan, assuming your figure of 0.9% is correct.
Genocide.
Genocide is a claim of intent, which is not established via casualties. Israel claims they intend to hit Hamas targets and defend themselves, not destroy Palestinians as a group. If true, this is not genocide.
If true
Big “if” there. Should we really just trust the people doing the killing to tell us their intent?
Neither should we presume they are lying. Healthy suspicion, trust yet verify, etc., seems like a better course of action. Israel seems to go to great lengths to legally justify their attacks and they are generally a trustworthy actor, with a few notable exceptions. I’d say they behave better than most nation-states would in their position, they offer more evidence to justify their attacks than most countries do, and they are held to a higher standard regarding humanitarianism in war than other nations generally are. I can’t think of any other nation that would historically call people to warn them there is an air strike incoming.
It’s only genocide if it comes from the Munich area of Germany, otherwise it’s just sparkling mass murder
Can’t address my argument? Pretend I’m making a different, absurd one! Reasonable people hate this one trick!
I don’t have to pretend, your “argument” is based on the definist fallacy
Ah yes, the fallacy of words meaning things. I have not redefined genocide, I have pointed out its current definition.
any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
© Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.From your link, emphasis mine:
any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
© Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
With means it has to meet both criteria. Work on your reading comprehension.
Israel says they do not intend to destroy the Palestinians, the ethnic group of Arabs, (who are 20% of Israeli citizens,) or Islamic people in whole or in part. Rather, if they are defending themselves against a belligerent hostile nation next door and intending to attack its militants, i.e., Hamas, these attacks are legal and not genocide, even if they cause significant collateral damage killing civilians.
