• machinin@lemmy.world
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    11 months ago

    Israel philosophy: every civilian, especially children, are military targets that need to be genocide.

    • Okigotitnow@lemmy.world
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      11 months ago

      Hamas philosophy: every civilian, especially children, are good human shields that we don’t care about.

      You see the problem here? This is why this war is so fucked up Both sides are in the wrong.

      • machinin@lemmy.world
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        11 months ago

        One side spends billions on weapons and military power used to oppress the other. One side has created an apartheid state that stomps on throats of millions of people. Both sides are not the same.

    • GenEcon@lemm.ee
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      11 months ago

      Which is still Hamas fault. If you place your military facilities in houses of civilians, refugee camps or even hospitals, these become legit targets. Which is why the term ‘genocide’ is completely missplaced. IF Israel would target civilian houses, that would be a war crime (even though still not a genocide), but since there have been countless proofs of Hamas using them for military purposes, they are legit targets.

      So yes, Israel is allowed to bomb a children’s bedroom – because of Hamas.

        • fubo@lemmy.world
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          11 months ago

          Well no, the Netanyahu administration has been propping up Hamas to keep the Palestinian Authority weak and incapable of resisting illegal settlements. Illegal settlers are a big part of Netanyahu’s base.

          There is no Palestinian genocide. If the Israeli government wanted to commit a genocide, they would be doing it a lot more effectively. After all, there are many ethnic Palestinians who are Israeli citizens; if there was a Palestinian genocide, those people would be getting killed, efficiently and systematically. They’re not.

          Netanyahu is a traitor to the state of Israel for funding an antisemitic terrorist organization, Hamas.

          It is unfortunate that Hamas likes to hide military operations in hospitals, schools, and apartment buildings. There’s a really good reason that international law forbids that sort of thing — because doing that makes hospitals, schools, and apartment buildings legitimate military targets.

          • enkers@sh.itjust.works
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            11 months ago

            Maybe you need a refresher on what genocide is. Here’s an excerpt from the UN definition:

            Article II of the Genocide Convention contains a narrow definition of the crime of genocide, which includes two main elements:

            1. A mental element: the “intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such”; and
            2. A physical element, which includes the following five acts, enumerated exhaustively:
            • Killing members of the group
            • Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group
            • Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part
            • Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group
            • Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group

            Israel simply intends to kill enough Palestinians to guarantee an ethnic majority in the region. Even if they don’t intended to eliminate every Palestinian, that still constitutes a genocide.

            • speaker_hat@lemmy.oneOP
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              11 months ago

              A mental element: the “intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such”;

              Israel never showed intention to do so. So this is off.

              Killing members of the group

              Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group

              Hamas members are necessarily Palestinians, so these are off.

              Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part

              Israel never showed intention to do so. So this is also off.

              Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group

              Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group

              Israel never showed intention to do so. And never forcibly transfered children. So this is also off.

              Hence, your argument of genocide is false.

              • alcyoneous@midwest.social
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                11 months ago

                Intent doesn’t need to be explicit, but in this case it is.

                https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/harsh-israeli-rhetoric-palestinians-central-south-africas-genocide-106471144

                In particular:

                “Deputy Knesset speaker Nissim Vaturi from the ruling Likud party wrote on X, formerly known as Twitter, that Israelis had one common goal, “erasing the Gaza Strip from the face of the earth.” Israeli Heritage Minister Amichay Eliyahu, from the far-right Jewish Power party, suggested that Israel drop a nuclear bomb on Gaza and said there were “no uninvolved civilians” in the territory.”

                Also the list of genocidal acts, as per the UN Genocide Convention, stipulates that any one of those acts is genocide, not that all 5 must be done. Acts 1 to 3 are very clearly being used in Gaza, and with Knesset members establishing intent it’s clearly a genocide, but arguably even without those statements the actions Israel has undertaken still fit the definition.

                • speaker_hat@lemmy.oneOP
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                  11 months ago

                  Thanks for the detailed reply. I agree that the fact that the Israeli government is currently far-right is a problem, and it’s no making the war situation easier.

                  Both politicians you quoted, Nissim Vaturi and Eliyahu, are far-right in their vision and views, as a result they say such an extreme sayings.

                  However, they don’t have any military influence and cannot have because of their position.

                  The ones who do have military power, didn’t show intentions to do so.

          • speaker_hat@lemmy.oneOP
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            11 months ago

            Per Hamas 2017 charter, there is no indication about “civil rights” or “civil safety”, so they actually (unfortunately) don’t care.

          • machinin@lemmy.world
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            11 months ago

            There is no Palestinian genocide. If the Israeli government wanted to commit a genocide, they would be doing it a lot more effectively. After all, there are many ethnic Palestinians who are Israeli citizens; if there was a Palestinian genocide, those people would be getting killed, efficiently and systematically. They’re not.

            Israel is committing genocide at a rate low enough to avoid too much criticism from their protector states. It’s a long-term strategy that will take decades to complete.

            Israel has really upped their genocide game in the past few months and are finally feeling some push back.

            Israel is patient, they have no need to hurry the genocide along. The long, slow process is just fine.

      • OccamsTeapot@lemmy.world
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        11 months ago

        If you place your military facilities in houses of civilians, refugee camps or even hospitals, these become legit targets

        Pretty sure this is bullshit. What is your source?

        If Hamas was hiding in an Israeli hospital, would the IDF take the same approach?

      • maness300@lemmy.world
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        11 months ago

        No, it’s Israel’s fault for stealing land and then committing genocide when those it was stolen from fight back.

        Also, what about the hundreds of children Israel has killed every year before the Oct 7 attacks?

          • blackn1ght@feddit.uk
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            11 months ago

            You do if you care about not killing innocent civilians. Hamas using human shields as a defence doesn’t give Israel a green flag to indiscriminately bomb those locations.

      • ABCDE@lemmy.world
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        11 months ago

        Israel has been shown again and again to be murdering people who should not be targets, like their own damn citizens.

        Saying ‘waaa Hamas uses them so it’s okay to murder kids’ is not a fucking argument.