I don’t think persuasion Checks are a good way to determine who lives and who dies in real life 🥲
Go ahead and roll for persuasion on your motion to abolish persuasion checks in healthcare.
It must be exhausting to be an american
I need to immigrate
I need to emigrate.
Anyone taking refugees yet?
Man, you got that right.
it most certainly is.
They (Americans) deserve it honestly.
- They worship capitalism
- Gleefuly joke about killing communists (via helicopters)
- Do not bat an eye when US govt invades 3rd world countries
- Rig international organizations in their favor
- Impose their will & turn other countries into a puppet states
- Fund Coups & Terrorists & bomb & sanctions on other emerging (As in developing) countries to destabilize them
- Stage Regime-change operations
- Greedy & Resource-Hoarding Nation with a mostly Selfish & Solipsistic Population
- & you rescued Nazis
- Not to mention how willing people are in joining the Military-industrial complex
I could go on & on
I do not. Many of my friends don’t either. Do we still “deserve it”?
We 100% do.
My christian mother can’t wait for society to burn and Jesus to come back.
Let it. Fucking hell. I’m so tired of protecting these fucking idiots. Good riddance.
I do not. Many of my friends don’t either. Do we still “deserve it”?
Gestures Broadly at Everything
It’s wild that Americans accept this idiotic healthcare system.
There’s too much to get into but the short version is we literally aren’t given a choice. People here idiotically vote against their own self interests and nothing anyone has tried to fix the problem has worked.
The sad part is that it doesn’t seem to matter who’s voting for who. I was a lead HIPAA security engineer at Blue Cross Blue Shield, and I architected some of the new EMR access auth systems. But I also got to see how ugly the inside of the insurance industry is. It was so depressing that even though they offered me a generous 6 figure salary, I had to quit for my own mental and emotional health. Their lobbyists have way more money than votes matter to begin with, that’s why I had to leave the industry for my own sanity.
we don’t get a say, it’s up to how much money they can make off us. system is rigged hard unless you have money or a ghost gun apparentlym
We don’t get a say, but half the country will defend this shit and excuse it before they’ll accept any socialized medicine. And they vote accordingly.
Medicare for All is broadly popular. We’re just stuck with a two-party system that has been captured by corporate interests. We can’t vote third party until we get proportional representation like SPAV.
Unfortunately there are people here in Canada who think it’s a better system. 😕
From an American: I’m so sorry our idiocy is bleeding into our neighbors up North. Learn from our mistakes!
Tell everyone you know that our healthcare literally bankrupts our working class, and that we still have crazy wait times for appointments due to our staffing shortages! Tell them there is absolutely zero upside to using anything remotely like our system!
Lobbyists in Canada (and northren European countries as well) will always try to dismember any social privelages their citizens have. The payoff is huge and the risks for trying to do so are negligible. Also, they can just blame the immigrants (which is hilarious in the US and Canada since all of us are immigrants or descendents of immigrants).
What are their complaints about the Canadian system out of curiosity? Just the taxes?
Complaining about the taxes would be the dumbest since the US spends a lot more tax money for a lot less per capita.
We don’t accept it. We were born into it, and the powers that be are bought and paid for. Tis bullshit.
Hey now, we have some of the best healthcare in the world if you can afford it, and healthcare stats that demonstrate just how few people that actually is.
The first card fell last week
Can’t I just get care? I got a whole grown ass person’s life to live, and i can’t be an expert in everything.
Are you rich? Then yes. If you’re not rich, then you need to suffer and struggle for needing to use valuable resources that could be used on people more deserving; like the wealthy.
It’s not that they’re hoarding scarce healthcare resources so they’re available for the wealthy. They could provide care for everyone, but then the system wouldn’t run at the desired profit level.
There is also a giant undercurrent of wealth ministry in the American upper classes. Since about the 1960’s they’ve been pushing the idea that God blesses good people with money and punishes bad people by making them poor. It’s mixed with the Protestant Work Ethic so they also see poor people as lazy and undeserving.
It’s a completely self serving and self fulfilling ideology but it makes them feel good so we all have to suffer because we lost the lottery at birth.
The mentality goes back much farther than the 1960s. In a traditional Christian family the father is the giver of rules and justice. “Wait til your father gets home!” Kids learn that doing what daddy says leads to rewards and disobedience leads to punishment. Follow the rules and you prosper, break them and you suffer. This translates very directly into thinking poor people must be bad people. They must have broken the rules somewhere along the line because look how they’re being punished. Wealthy people must have done all the right things in all the right ways, because they’re getting rewarded with prosperity and that’s what’s supposed to happen. f you’re conditioned into that mindset, class differences make perfect sense.
More that people wouldn’t be reliant on shitty jobs for healthcare. The current state of affairs ensures obedient workers.
i didn’t say healthcare resources. money is a resource and you must give it to your betters if you want access to affordable healthcare. they are hoarding one resource by denying access to another.
Oh ya, you can get care. And then you fight with insurance about whether or not that was the right doctor to use or if it was really necessary in the first place. But insurance won’t talk to the hospital and the hospital won’t talk to insurance so you have to talk to each of them in turn while waiting on hold every time. It’s a wonderful system.
You could but half the country voted for the guy who hates poor people
The Democrats have fought nationalized healthcare tooth and as well
You say that, but when the Dems had a filibuster proof super majority in Congress for a handful of weeks over a decade ago, we got the ACA.
They literally brought the health insurance executives in to write that bill. It was a step forward. But it was also a captive market that was supposed to be subsidized by state and federal governments. So the health insurance companies would just make a profit no matter what.
You say that, but when the Dems had a filibuster proof super majority in Congress for a handful of weeks over a decade ago, we got the ACA.
The ACA barely passed in its original form (219-212) with a bunch of democrats voting against it too. A few aligned themselves with big business however many other democrats voted against the ACA because they believe it didn’t go far enough.
The ACA was still the biggest win for the American people on healthcare in decades.
Yeah, there were some pretty conservative Congress people back then. There no way we were gonna get enshrined abortion rights, since many Dems were staunchly pro-life, hence ACA as an alternative.
Hey why did we get the shitty ACA instead of actual universal healthcare if the Dems had power and were committed to getting universal healthcare?
Because there were other people in Congress who talked about death panels and tried to kill it at every turn. Reps hate the populace, and try their best to neuter everything good for the people. Also, some pretty right-leaning Dems were there. Have you paid ANY attention to politics?
Maybe don’t tout a half-measure that comprimised with literal ghouls as a defining unequivocal win for the party then?
You some champion of missing the point? That’s what we got despite all odds.
It’s like you people don’t understand politics or history. No wonder we elected a fucking fascist into office. JFC
To be fair, neither party was going to pull the trigger on Medicare For All. We’re not getting universal healthcare until the working class stops letting wedge issues divide it.
75+ million fascists voted for a fascist.
In most countries you can, yes.
You can get whatever you want, but you have a $37,849.45 bill because you used the wrong door.
See, that door you used was operated by Attenya Healathus, not the Hospital, which is operated by Wellmeat (formerly Agape Plalauthis) so your care was not covered. If you had entered through the door (as outlined in your EOB) to the right, it would’ve only been an $800 copay for your splinter removal.
And your doctor will have to fight with the insurance company over the phone for an hour to do a pre-auth. When my doctor wants to perform something or give a certain treatment not covered, he assures me he will make this long and stressful call. I really wonder what they are discussing and what goes on in these conversations…
Agree I feel fortunate to have found a doctor(and their PA, and their staff) who feels like my own personal swat team to get my treatments. I am not wealthy and don’t have gold plated coverage, I just found a winner.
It’s so much paperwork and phone tag.
I was the feisty little gremlin that fought with the insurance at a cancer-focused plastic surgery clinic. I got really good at stacking up all of the info in the first submission so that they couldn’t drag their heels on shit that was time-sensitive.
Preesh.
As an EMT I rode with too many people who were sobbing in the bus because they knew the financial hit that was coming when we got to the ER.
I’m in medical school now and looking at either emergency med or family med, and either way, I am going to be exceedingly careful about how I construct my notes, diagnoses, evaluations, and treatment plans to leave as few cracks as possible for the insurance companies to try to weasel their way into.
I would encourage you to CAREFULLY and WITH DETAIL listen to your senior tutors (senior grisled paramedics, charge nurses, etc). They have a very particular line to walk and you can blow the show if you don’t learn the language.
It’s performative…everyone in the equation wants the patient to get the best, but if you haul off and make it obvious, they may be screwed.
Not saying you’d do that, but it’s a new world of…bullshit nuance.
Edit and if they ever give you a knowing look, and ask you to check the blinker fluid, or if the vending machine is stocked with saline, nod, and go “check”. They want to talk to the patient with no witnesses, so they can coach them on how to fit a proper insurance code.
I am quite familiar with this nonsense from the patient side as well. As a physician, I think I will be well-placed to ensure that my patients are getting appropriate care while not giving the insurance company bullshit reasons to deny claims.
Good on you. I mean no assumption, only shared advice from some years in the trenches.
What doctor has time to do that? I’m in Canada and I can never trust my doctor to have any conversation with anyone, at any time longer than five minutes at a time for anything.
The best tactic I’ve found if you want to get anything done for yourself or someone close to you is for you to do the legwork and make calls, contacts and literally hound people to do their job. If no one is there to push things along, no one is going to magically appear to help you … that is a fantasy that seldom and rarely happens, even in our publicly funded system.
You or someone who is capable should advocate for you every step of the way, otherwise you will just get lost and forgotten in the system … whether you are in the US or Canada.
I have a doctor that actually cares. If I had one that didn’t, I would not stop until I found one that did. It’s mostly getting the insurance to cover medications that they don’t. The doctor usually spends the last hour of his day doing this, for me and other patients. You have to find a local doctor outside of a major city with less client base so they DO have the time. I am in the US. My deductible is very high but the medication I take is life sustaining and I can never pay for it. I have to do this every 6mo to a year: make an appointment and hope the doctor gets their way. Once they didn’t and that is why I am at my current doctor. There is not much negotiating a patient can do calling the insurance themselves. They will just look and see you don’t know what you are talking about. No matter how you complain about the symptoms, your financial burden, your family, or the fact of it being life-sustaining. Best to have a medical professional advocate. I have even tried with doctor letters and emails forwarded before calling. That is why I wonder what the doctor actually says that gets through.
I’m in Canada and I can never trust my doctor to have any conversation with anyone, at any time longer than five minutes at a time for anything
The best tactic I’ve found if you want to get anything done for yourself or someone close to you is for you to do the legwork and make calls, contacts and literally hound people to do their job.
This is my experience in the US as well. Also nobody knows anything about anything.
Doctor A puts you on a medication, doctor B doesn’t know until you tell them and then he says “he put you on that!? You shouldn’t be on that, I’m taking you off it.”
You go to have a surgery and say “hey guys, did you know that I’m difficult to intubate? Because I could die if you don’t take that into account”, they didn’t know.
“Hey guys, I have reason to believe that the insurance card I was issued in the mail isn’t completely correct, can anyone help me with this?”, 4 different people at the company that issued the card have no idea what’s going on, don’t even know about the policy tied to the card in question and think you must have accidentally called the wrong company (you didn’t).
“Hey guys how much is this going to cost?” it is literally impossible to say.
Do you think your health record got that black mark before you took control of your health journey, or after?
(Mine is “surgery seeking”, apparently, as my old region has the mitigation history and the new region doesn’t; and one surgery every 15 years seems to be too many for them!)
What you are saying is generally true. The only real oversight in ensuring things are moving forward is us ourselves as patients. It’s our responsibility as patients to take charge of our health.
That being said, P2P is sadly a standard aspect of American medical practice. Essentially anyone in a direct patient contact position position has done them. In the clinic or hospital, it may be your primary clinician handling it but it doesn’t necessarily have to be. It can be handled by other clinical staff or a group of nonclinical doctors also.
You dont have to worry about P2P since it will get taken care of (whether the service will be covered by insurance is another story). Instead I’d focus on keeping disconnected parts of the system abreast of your medical conditions and current list of medications. Because health information is protected there really isn’t a great solution for centralizing this data yet so if you go to a clinic that’s on a different EMR, they’re not going to have all of the necessary information available to them.
When I was a clinic assistant in a cancer-focused plastic surgery clinic, it was my job to fight with the insurance companies. I did prior authorizations for every surgery and they would do shit like approve the removal of a melanoma without requiring prior authorization, but performing the skin graft to repair the 10cm diameter hole required a prior authorization because the procedure code falls under the “Plastic Surgery” heading and they wanted to make sure you’re not getting skin grafts for cosmetic reasons.
I’ve had doctors lead me to make certain statements so they can more readily justify a given treatment that they know I need.
It’s a bit of a wink-and-a-nod situation.
It’s even worse if you’re part of an HMO, because the doctors are beholden to the business side, unlike independent doctors who don’t have a management overhead telling them how many times a year they can prescribe a treatment, becuase they’re doing it more frequently than other doctors in the system.
This demonstrates the major issue with socialized care, because it’s also managed this way. I’ve been in both HMO and PPO systems - overall they both cost about the same despite HMOs acting like they cover more day-to-day stuff. It’s just with PPO (independent doctors), I get care that’s more tailored to me and my wishes, I don’t get pushback from corporate, because there’s no corporate involved. I may have to discuss with my doctor how to present things so my insurance won’t push back, but at least the insurance company doesn’t directly control my doctor’s salary, bonus, etc.
All this crap started in the 80’s as business management orgs started taking over healthcare organizations and consolidating them, and turning them into profit centers.
It’s hard as one having free (state paid) healthcare in EU, to imagine anything but just going to the doctor, and the doctor seeing to it, that you get the correct treatment.
No paperwork, no hassle, no bill.
I can’t imagine why USA hasn’t introduced something similar yet, but prefer all that bureaucracy that only makes the whole process way more expensive. Just to make sure some unemployed poor guy doesn’t get free treatment!!
USA is a psychopathic society.The US isn’t a country.
It’s a business dressed up as a country.
(More like 50 countries dressed up as a business dressed up as a country, but then even that gets more complicated)
This is too close to sovereign citizen bullshit for me to take seriously.
Did you just compare my comment to those fucking idiots?
wtf do we call our society, anyhow? Just “capitalist”? Is that still the term?
Apart from also being an oligarchy, yes it is capitalist.
But here (Denmark) we would technically call it SUPER capitalist.
Because Denmark is also capitalist, but like the rest of EU, we balance capitalism with general interests of society. Where USA favor capitalism way more.No, it’s not super, it’s just capitalism. What you are describing in Denmark is a “mixed economy”.
Corporate dictatorship?
Oligarchy
We were an oligarchy.
With the new administration, it would be more apt to call the US a plutocracy.
You know, I probably agree. We’ve, at the least, been headed in that direction. And, are likely about to plunge all the way in, a month from now
I looked up oligarchy on Wikipedia out of curiosity. Although it’s debated, the U.S. is listed as an example of one
I would have agreed on the “probably” until Musk basically bought his way into max corruption with a seat right next to the president.
Those 40 billion he has practically lost on Xitter, will most likely be gained already within the first year.
There is no doubt IMO that USA is now de-facto an oligarchy.
imo Corporatocracy
It’s pure lobbying.
That CEO’s company made $22 billion in profit or something. Put just $1 billion of that in lobbying and you got a whole army of people manipulating the results in favor of the current status quo, and you’ll have your $21 billion instead of $0.
Wait until you find out that we actually get money deducted from our paychecks, a good some of money under “Medicare”, that we don’t get. We just pay for it on top of our monthly premiums for the insurance.
This made me laugh… and cry.
Of all the things to be angry at re: health insurance, this ain’t it. You are not mad at Medicare existing. Like you do realize that 99% of people on this site want what you just described, but for all health care at all ages, right?
There are plenty of issues with Medicare, but what you just described is probably the easiest part of this whole situation for a European to understand due to its progressive nature.
I think it’s pretty reasonable to be pissed about paying for something you can’t use. Especially if they’re in the same boat I am where their taxes are literally the difference between owning a home or not.
Yeah, and my taxes shouldn’t have to go toward paying for schools because I don’t have kids right now, right? And what about libraries? I haven’t been to one in decades, why should I pay for them? And roads… I don’t currently have a car, so I should not have to contribute to maintaining roads and bridges.
Are we really going to have to go back to middle school and explain the social contract?
So let the people who have extra to spare pay for the shit they’re not using.
It’s hard as one having free (state paid) healthcare in EU
Your health care is neither free nor “state paid”, you pay for it, the government just takes the money before it ever arrives in your bank account. You should know how much you pay, and how the service compares to a comparable commercial health plan.
Oh for fucks sake, I wrote state paid exactly to prevent this bullshit. Obviously we pay the state through taxes.
This is such a tired argument, and doesn’t change that single payer or whatever words Americans use to describe what we in Europe merely call healthcare, but healthcare for all is so much cheaper to run, that the money saved easily cover the poor that can’t afford to pay if they had to.Your moronic parroting of extreme right wing talking points have zero impact on a reality that is way different from what you try to manipulate people into thinking.
Obviously we pay the state through taxes.
So… you agree with me, but still attack me?
I attack you for stating the obvious, which seems like an attempt to make it seem like “free” healthcare doesn’t really matter, and cost the same as privatized through private insurance. When in fact it is way cheaper overall.
In Europe healthcare cost are about half of what they are in USA, and life expectancy is longer, and old age quality of life is higher mostly because of better old age health.If it’s obvious, why don’t you use correct terms, something like “public health care”? Using correct terms is an extreme right wing talking point? Lol…
Because Americans have so goddam many terms for similar things. Single payer, universal, public, public insurance, private insurance, community based, employer paid. The current system is called “Mixed non-universal”. So I used a description instead. And you knew what I meant.
BTW how many languages do you speak? It’s pretty low to criticize minor mistakes by someone writing in a 2nd language.
I write better American than many Americans!!!So you intentionally say wrong stuff and then attack people as extreme right wing who correct you. Charming. You’re also starting to make excuses, 2nd language, but you still can’t apologize for your shitty behavior.
Right, but what do you do when someone who works less, or isn’t as talented or smart, as you gets the same or better healthcare!?
Edit: /s
Same not better. And that’s the thing, when equal healthcare is the norm, it becomes surprisingly normal. Nobody gives it a second thought.
Because the CEOs of healthcare companies keep pushing to lobby against anything like that which would hurt their profits
It’s money. It’s specifically a video of a white man with an expensive suit dancing in a rain of hundred dollar bills while the chorus to Money Money Money plays.
Politicians know the system is broke but they benefit from the money and have government sponsored top tier healthcare.
I can’t imagine why USA hasn’t introduced something similar yet, but prefer all that bureaucracy that only makes the whole process way more expensive. Just to make sure some unemployed poor guy doesn’t get free treatment!!
(concepts stolen from a very insightful reddit post from years ago) Nearly all modern conservative positions can be explained with two idea.
- Society is zero-sum. For someone to gain something, someone else must lose something.
- Class is defined and there should be no mobility for lower classes to ascend to higher classes in society.
So apply this to healthcare:
Most arguing against medical-treatment-for-all view it as zero-sum. So for most its not just because they don’t want some unemployed poor guy getting free treatment, but rather, “if the unemployed poor guy gets free treatment, then treatment won’t be available at some point in the future when I need it”. This is silly of course.
For others arguing against medical-treatment-for-all, the suffering is the point. The unemployed poor guy should suffer because that is his station in life. A life of comfort is reserved for those of higher classes. They believe, alleviating his suffering would go against the class he’s in and should in. This is, of course, also silly.
They also use the higher taxes argument. They lean on the decades of anti tax propaganda and tell people your taxes have to go up for it to work. Of course your taxes go up by less than you save on premiums and deductibles, but they just shout, “taxes are theft” over anyone pointing that out.
They also use the higher taxes argument. They lean on the decades of anti tax propaganda and tell people your taxes have to go up for it to work.
This is a rephrasing of their zero sum argument. As in “for the poor to gain healthcare, you, the middle class, must lose wealth”.
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“We” have been heavily propagandized into this. As a nation we’re a masterclass in being brainwashed against our own interests
Once upon a time, I thought the arrival of the internet would mean ordinary people would be better informed. But Trump being elected twice has proven me wrong.
It’s not used as much for information as it is used for misinformation and propaganda.In the 70’s I thought better information would end religion, it’s insane how quickly we are getting absolutely nowhere.
I have come to realize, that I’m VERY naive in some respects. Hard not to turn into a cynic.
TBF the US is way less religious than we were in the 70s.
cause of death: not knowing the cheat code to getting treated like a human being that exists for some reason
There are also advocates who can help you navigate the insurance nightmare. We had to do it when I needed surgery a few years ago.
This is more than mildlyinteresting.
I tells ya it’s a situation awful enough to drive a man to stay in a hostel.
This has big soviergn citizen energy. “Say these magic legal words and they have to pay your bill”.
Absolutely, the only difference from sovcits is that the bogeyman we believe in is real - it’s the insurance companies and billionaires.
It’s basically the same tactic, convince them that you’re too much of a pain in the ass to deal with and they should just give you what you want to get you to go away. Only it’s for accessing your own fucking healthcare that you pay them money for and not, you know, avoiding paying child support or truck payments.
So the Hippocratic oath is essentially meaningless in America?
It was always meaningless. It never had any legal repercussions if it was broken, just like ethics agreements politicians get to waiver.
Saved this advice for future reference - thank you!
Every time I learn something new about murica its a new horrifying thing that makes me wonder how your country hasn’t been thrown into civil war.
What so many Americans seem to consider normal is sounding quite insane for more civilised countrys.It’s insane even for “less civilised countries”.
We’re inching closer every day. Someday the pressure is going to exceed the limit and it will explode.
