Disrespecting the dead is foolish - it does nothing but dehumanise you, and those you fight with.
In a very real way are you cursed, and have cursed those around you, for an enemy whose dead are dishonoured will grant no clemency.
Hamas fighters
They’re terrorists. Hamas is the richest terrorist organization in the world. Their headquarters are in Qatar, which pulls the strings and spreading hate against Jewish people (not just Israel). Don’t believe me? Check it out for yourself. One of Hamas’ goals is to exterminate the Jewish people all over the world!
They don’t give a shit about Palestinian people. It’s not about that at all.
As far as I know their biggest backers are Iran. Is that not still the case? Legitimate question here.
I think “exterminating Jewish people all over the world” is hyperbolic, but their original 1988 charter does specifically call for the complete destruction of the Israeli state and the formation of Palestine via holy war. It’s 100% an anti-semitic document, and debatably genocidal. An attempt to kill an ethnic group doesn’t need to be world-wide to be genocidal.
Their new 2017 charter is fair bit more moderate, and calls for the 1967 borders. Whether the new document is about PR or if they’ve actually become more moderate is a question that is being answered by their treatment of civilians now, imho.
I think “exterminating Jewish people all over the world” is hyperbolic, but their original 1988 charter does specifically call for the complete destruction of the Israeli state and the formation of Palestine via holy war. It’s 100% an anti-semitic document, and debatably genocidal. An attempt to kill an ethnic group doesn’t need to be world-wide to be genocidal.
removed de-colonization is destroying the colonizer state
Iran also backs Hamas and other terror organizations in the middle east. But it’s not possible to ignore that Qatar gives them shelter. Everybody knows about the Iranian government, but Qatar is not mentioned enough in these cases. I only saw posts about Qatar’s inner stuff, and it was mostly because they hosted the soccer events recently.
video because none of these media sites ever link or post this typa stuff: https://www.bitchute.com/video/z3J1uFqKaCLV/ identified by the tatoos on her legs
btw if any one knows of any good resource for collections of raw videos and stuff please share. I hate having to OSINT literally every thing that happens because social media is notorious for deleting these videos fast and by then it sometimes snowballs into fake news, propaganda, or incorrect information.
Your link doesn’t work, or st least it seems to be unavailable for viewers in Europe.
For me it shows you need to register to see it. NSFL video from X: https://twitter.com/GoldenR_Fella/status/1710980493351461142
Viewing of this video is limited, as it has been marked as Not Safe For Life (NSFL).
This video contains graphic content that most people will find upsetting, and it is recommended that you view with extreme caution.
Please see the Community Guidelines for more details.
If you would still like to view this video you will need to: or
Removed by mod
Last I heard Israel is a legitimate country created in agreement by the UN.
Whether YOU personally agree it should exist or not is a different subject.
I hate the Israeli government and the direction it is taking in these recent times but:
- Gaza wasn’t stolen, it was literally given back in 2005
- Hamas took power in 2007 and hasn’t left ever since.
I don’t condone the extension of settlement nor brainwashing of the population but if you’re against thevery existence of the state of Israel then we don’t have much to talk about.
Gaza is being blockaded, not allowing food, water, and really just anything inside. They are committing genocide RIGHT NOW. Palestine will fight back.
I don’t think many people are against the existence of the state of Israel.
Many people, however, are against the official and unofficial policies of the state of Israel, where they simply allow right extremist settlers steal houses from Palestinians, and if these people resist the state is all to happy to defend their own, even though all the actions are plain and simply WRONG. I’m not even saying illegal here because half the time thee actions are perfectly legal within the state of Israel.
Israel as a state is fine, the right extremists that would love to orchestrate a genocide of their own, you know, a bit of pat back, is not.
The fact that Isreal was created in agreement with the UN does not change a thing for the palestinians who lost their homes in the process. The UN did not have the right to do that and the zionists in the early days behaved much like the hamas do now.
Gaza wasn’t stolen, it was literally given back in 2005
They had to evict a bunch of isrealis from their homes to do so, I remember watching videos of that online when it happened.
Hamas took power in 2007 and hasn’t left ever since.
Not accurate. Hamas was denied power when they won 2006 election, voted by the people off course. Fatah still wanted to cling to power even though they lost. And The West wanted Fatah to remain even though they lost democratically because Fatah can be brought into nego and Hamas is a designated as a terrorist org by them, off course. At the end, Hamas was only able to administer Gaza as that’s where Fatah wasn’t able to exert their control.
Watch the documentary, The Mayor, and then tell me your opinions on Israel / Palestine. Palestinians are brutalized. Israel is a shit state, regarding policy. I don’t condone violence. Israel brings violence upon itself via violence against Palestinians.
Palestine brings violence against itself via violence against Israelis. Blowing up public busses, nightclubs, open air markets, in a way specifically designed to cause mass casualty, does wonders to make the average Israeli not give a fuck about the Palestinian cause or the righteousness or lack thereof of the Israeli government. Showing me lopsided casualty reports does not change this reality.
I don’t really blame them. Were I in their position, I’d probably be doing exactly what they’re doing. They’re fighting for their existence against a whole world that wants them dead. That’s gotta make you feel so hopeless, you stop caring about the humanity of your oppressors. Might as well hurt them as much as possible before they kill you off.
Better than sitting around for Israel to murder you for your land. I wish the Palestinians luck in their fight, and I hope they bring such deep and unwavering sadness to Israel that the very rocks of that defiled land weep blood at their folly.
I’m sure that western media will handle this news in a completely rational, reasonable, and non-inflammatory way.
I’m not sure how this can NOT be infuriating? What way is there to present this in a differentiated way?
“well, at least the didn’t cut her into pieces” or what?
this is a innocent European citizen being brutalized by Palestinian terrorists, as the Crowd of Civilians cheers on.
I for one have no empathy left for those people. Neither of them. Honestly at this point i think we should just let them eradicate each other and then just turn the whole region into a huge Museum telling us why Religion sucks.
Probably about as well as most comment sections
Why would we want to?
Don’t worry, no one expects decency from you
Removed by mod
Removed by mod
Reality.
Antisemitism. Welcome to being Jewish on the internet.
Removed by mod
The more you say that when it isn’t true, the less meaning it has.
Removed by mod
Who gives a fuck is the more important question. What a time for pedantry.
Removed by mod
He didn’t see any marching bands. Everyone knows you can’t have a parade without a marching band.
“In the back of a truck” is pretty much the definition of a parade float.
Removed by mod
Yeah if those dudes were rescuers they would have a) given her a blanket (or the shirt off their own back, how about?) for modesty and to help prevent shock for the obviously broken leg, and b) wouldn’t have been yanking her head around by the dreadlocks.
Those men in the truck and on that street, shouting “allahu akbar”, revolt other humans and make atheism the only worthy belief system.
https://www.timesnownews.com/world/israeli-woman-soldier-naked-on-a-car-assaulted-by-hamas-militants-video-surfaces-article-104235709/amp heavily censored video in context. doesn’t look like recovery.
I see so much support for the Hamas here in Lemmy. And I dont know why. I dont really no much about middle east conflict but everything I’ve ever heard about the Hamas was terrible and crule. Maybe its Propaganda but then things like this happens. Even IF it was a Soldier and not just a civillian this is nothing a Regime which is worth supporting does. This is just wrong.
EDIT: Typo
I don’t see any support for Hamas.
The big reason is not really justification to support Hamas, but Israel has absolutely not been the good guys in this situation. We all should support Palestine in the face of Israel treating them so badly.
Hamas is a Palestinian group that is fighting them, which is why the anti-Israel folks will often support that. Unfortunately with news like this (and this isn’t the first or the last of it) it’s hard to support either side.
For what it’s worth, I think you can support Palestine without supporting Hamas. But it’s pretty easy for us to make judgment when it’s not our homes and families being harmed.
Hamas is a Palestinian group that is fighting them, which is why the anti-Israel folks will often support that.
Hamas also came into being because of Israel supporting it over secular (communist) resistance groups.
https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/
I think it’s a “sides” thing. It’s mentally easy.
I think this story should be engaged with some nuance: I for example think Hamas is evil. But that does not mean I support Israel. Israel denies Palestinians their basic human rights, kills innocent people, and displaces people from their homes. It places palestinians as second class citizens.
They would be doing this whether or not there was a villain to oppose them, and they do it both when Hamas attacks and when they don’t. They have an absurd amount of wealth and power. They have a military that absolutely crushes people when they do their thing, both in “peace” time and at war. The evil that Israel is capable of is simply not accessible to the likes of Hamas.
The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
Take one people and take their homes away, take another and call them “the chosen people or Judea” and tell them they can take the homes of the other people.
Now one group has been told by the “world” that this place is theirs because God said so.
The other is literally kicked outta their homes and is told it’s their fault. Also they’re walled in and can’t leave… and then they’re told they’re gonna get fucked unless they leave… but they can’t leave…
Revolutionary groups are almost always operating from a severe disadvantage. They lack the resources of the regime that oppresses them.
You should ask yourself why revolutionaries feel that extremism is the solution. Is it maybe because peaceful protest leads to Zionist forces opening fire on unarmed civilians? Maybe it’s because losses in this drawn out conflict have disproportionately affected Palestinians?
And that’s why the have to humiliate and torture a captured Soldier? Wait it wasn’t even a Soldier! Nothing, I repeat NOTHING(!) can justify such an action.
Nothing justifies it, but desperation explains it.
War is terrible. I don’t support the allied troops in WWII raping and murdering Berlin women en masse or sending queer concentration camp victims straight to prison for being queer. Nothing can justify such actions. Does that mean the Nazis should not have been fought and defeated? Certainly not.
I see very very little actual support of Hamas so far but a TON of people complaining about seeing support of Hamas. I browse “everything” in Sync for Lemmy on Android if that helps. There more posts complaining about posts than actual problem posts. Hamas is inhumane; Israel is inhumane. Both things can be true at the same time.
Bro you must not have been reading the political Lemmy’s Havent you? Even political memes has a hard on for the terrorists. What else is new, tomorrow they will reveal themselves to be supporters of antisemitism?
For me it’s actually the other Way around. I use Jerboa but this should not make difference or does it?. This is quite interesting.
I think lemmy.world defederated from the instances where you would see those posts. My understanding is that even if you are browsing “everything” you still won’t see those instances. There’s places to check who defederated what n’such.
New to this, so since my account was created on lemmy.world I’m not seeing them? I definitely see posts from lemmy.ml that everyone is claiming upset about. I haven’t seen anything from hexbear that I know of though which is the other name being thrown around. But others with accounts created on other instances may see them in their feed, they are not necessarily seeking them out to find reasons to be upset. I think that makes sense.
Still appears disproportionately to be people complaining about support as opposed to support itself.
I’m on lemmy.world and I’ve seen at least one from Hexbear
You’re on lemm.ee, lemmy.world defederated from hexbear a while ago
Nah political memes has a hard on for the terrorists right now
I have seen pretty radical stuff from news@hexbear.net. Like, holy moly. I think it was on All, but maybe I accidentally subscribed to it. Saying stuff like “Death to America” and “Death to Israel” seems to get upvotes over there.
I get it, Israel’s illegal settlements and occupation of Gaza make it pretty easy for radical groups to gain followers. But that doesn’t mean that shooting at ordinary people is going to fix anything. Sure, Palestine has a right to defend itself. But shooting up a festival hardly qualifies as this.
Equally relevant, putting aside Israel’s settlements which we know to be illegal, the number of civilians dying in Gaza is totally unacceptable. Air strikes might look less horrific than men with guns, but they are really equally horrific, killing huge numbers of civilians. These lives are not worth less in any way.
I think this order of thoughts is appropriate:
- It is awful that civilians are dying, no matter where they live
- Unjust violence is taking place in Israel and in Gaza
- This doesn’t come out of the blue. Current conditions are a violation of international law by Israel and are a breeding ground for radicalisation. Israel has many more cards in their hands to turn this around than Palestine has.
- Can we please end this endless cycle of violence and suffering?
deleted by creator
I dont really no much about middle east conflict but[…]
There it is.
Great, another terrorist supporter
One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter
funny that knowing something about this makes you a ‘terrorist supporter’
deleted by creator
The grievences of the Palestinians are genuine, but no one wants to legitimize violence as a method for achieving political objectives.
So, here we are.
The grievences of the Palestinians are genuine, but no one wants to legitimize violence as a method for achieving political objectives.
WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU THINK THEY SHOULD DO? DIE BECAUSE OF YOUR SHITTY AND USELESS IDEAS?
fuck you, scum of the earth
but no one wants to legitimize violence as a method for achieving political objectives.
Unless they’re going on about riots being the voice of the unheard…
“When our time comes, we will make no excuses for the terror”
Terrorism is violence towards people, riots are violence towards property, that’s a hell of a leap to try to equivocate the two
One becomes the other pretty frequently and pretty easily.
See May 28, 2020 in Minneapolis where, connected to the ongoing protests Montez Terriel Lee burned down Max It Pawn Shop. There’s literally video footage of him pouring the accelerant, lighting it, and standing outside the burning building saying something to the effect of “Fuck this place. We’re gonna burn this shit down.”. Folks like you basically cheered the footage on social media.
It was almost two months later before we found out the building wasn’t empty when he burned it down, when authorities found a body in the rubble. ME said he died from thermal injury and smoke inhalation, aka he was burned to death. Which is a horrible way to go. So “the voice of the unheard” delivered the message “Were gonna burn this shit down” over a human barbecue.
Weird time to bring up the “BLM burned down whole cities, and antifa killed my dog” boogymam, but…okay?
I haven’t seen anyone supporting Hamas as much as I’ve seen people opposing Israel.
deleted by creator
murdering civilians en masse and then desecrating their corpses seems like a strange approach to recruiting people to your cause.
It is interesting that similar sentiments aren’t leveled against Israeli police & military when they slaughter innocent people.
It would be weird and suspicious if I did that right?
“Well, Israel would probably have more people on their side if they didn’t kill thousands of innocent people” (which they have done)
It’s like you can use this line against whoever you don’t like to justify not liking them.
My sincere question is, what do you actually want the outcome to be? It is my opinion that if Hamas stopped going to war completely, Israel would continue to oppress Palestinians by denying them rights, displacing them from their homes, and keeping them as second class citizens on the basis of race.
It is interesting that similar sentiments aren’t leveled against Israeli police & military when they slaughter innocent people.
Do you live under a rock?
Since 2015, the General Assembly has adopted 140 resolutions criticizing Israel, mainly over its treatment of the Palestinians, its relationships with neighboring countries and other alleged wrongdoings. Over the same period, it has passed 68 resolutions against all other countries, UN Watch said.
Thank goodness for those resolutions! Amirite or amirite?
deleted by creator
I’m aware plenty of people condemn Israel for good reason, but what I don’t hear is the snide “you’ll never get anyone on your side like that”. It’s a sentiment that black people have been hearing since the 60’s, and is more commonly leveled against “underdogs” that are fighting an establishment.
I’m aware plenty of people condemn Israel for good reason.
You just said people don’t express similar sentiments when the Israeli police and military slaughter innocent people.
what I don’t hear is the snide “you’ll never get anyone on your side like that”
Palestinians are trying to play on the sympathies of the international community to garner aid and support for their cause. Israel is not.
I’m sure Israel made some real changes because of these slaps on the wrist.
deleted by creator
Multiple things can be bad at the same time. It is also possible to fight without being barbaric.
It is also possible to fight without being barbaric.
Easy to say when you don’t have white phosphorus raining down on your kids’ school…
Its almost as though Hamas is a terrorist organisation or something
deleted by creator
Delulu is strong with this one.
Ah yes, because peaceful protest worked so well: https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2019/02/no-justification-israel-shoot-protesters-live-ammunition
So, to be clear, you are condoning the murder en masse of unarmed israeli civilians?
An eye for an eye is a commandment in the Book of Exodus. What do you propose Gazans should do instead?
It was a yes or no question. Please answer
It’s possible for logical people to condemn the violence from both the Israeli military and Hamas, you know
But @zerfuffle@lemmy.ml hasn’t condemned them. In fact they seem to be condoning them. If you were reading this thread with a logical mind you would have noticed that
You’re woefully ignorant to the world around you if you think they did this for sympathy.
If sympathy hasn’t worked up until now, what do you think would have to change in order to make it work? Lol.
But yeah, keep parroting those upvoted reddit talking points. You fit in!
Recruiting Middle-Eastern Muslims to your cause, with your cause being Jihadist and genocidal, is something most consistent with this approach.
Have you seen these recent videos with crowds in Gaza cheering over all those bodies and yelling “Allahu akbar”, “Khaybar” and such things?
I mean, the very fact that they are sharing these naturally and openly should inform you about that society (if you knew nothing about it before, that is, cause what I’m trying to communicate is obvious for anybody knowing anything about West Asia).
I hope western nations do not take in any of the Palestinians that are about to be displaced.
If you hate what we stand for, if you hate how we dress and how we dance, you should find asylum in a country that matches your values.
Since when has the US and Western nations welcomed or cared for refugees of any kind? You and I both know you wouldn’t have welcomed them even if Hamas hadn’t done these things.
What are you talking about. Europe is flooded with immigrants, if anything a lot of countries are too welcoming and now have problems themselves, see Sweden and Germany as examples.
And no one is happy they are here, additionally there are much more refugees outside of Europe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_refugee_population#By_destination_country_of_asylum
If someone is born in Gaza and wants to leave, you think they should be denied simply because of where they come from?
Not sure if you know this, but every single Palestinian is actually not an active member in Hamas.
it seems racist to view all Palestinians as a hive mind
Because it is.
Just as a little reality check for all Hamas “fans” out here which are actually comparing them to Israel. The Hamas is founded on the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, which are a fairytale full of antisemitism and proven, false statements about Jews and how they are responsible for every bad thing that happens during the centuries and their diabolical plot for world domination (of course one of the favorite lecture of the Nazis)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Protocols_of_the_Elders_of_Zion
Those idiots are really believing this fairytale and they use it to justify the murder of innocent people and Jews in general. So the next time you step in in defense of the Hamas or when you compare them to Israel, keep in mind that they are doing this because they believe in some antisemitic fairytale written by a crazy Russian back in the old days…they are basically Scientology only more degenerated and more violent.
Removed by mod
Hey, how come Egypt and Jordan won’t accept Palestinians settlers?
Also cute af that you think Israelis are white nationalists. The actual bigot here might be you homie.
I never said they were ‘white nationalists.’ Zionism, by definition, is religious nationalism though. Jews, on average, are whiter than Arabs. It is another example of whites getting their way while browns get fucked.
Hey, how come Egypt and Jordan won’t accept Palestinians settlers?
You tell me.
The actual bigot here might be you homie.
Might want to leave the personal insults at home. They just make your argument look weak.
Cool story bruh
Might want to leave the personal insults at home. They just make your argument look weak.
Uhh, they werent insulting you, they were cautioning you that your views are pretty clearly warped.
And no, it didn’t make their argument look weak.
Nah, he had to resort to personal insults because he didn’t have a strong argument.
And no, it didn’t make their argument look weak.
You only say that because you agree with him and you’re biased.
No you just took it personally, ironically making your argument look weak.
Lol, what? A personal insult was taken personally?
My god, the mental gymnastics among ya’ll. You should be olympic gold medalists.
Nope his argument is strong
or when you compare them to Israel
Killing others, because of some “fairytale” religion or book that justifies dehumanizing the other side? That’s not like Israel? In what way?
As much as the orthodox scholars would like to insist otherwise, Israel is not a theocracy.
Zionism is a fundamentally nationalist project, and early Israel quashed attempts to root the founding of the state in religious zealotry.
You’ll be able to spot this in phenomena like how major Israeli political parties actually represent splinters between different ethnicities of Israeli jews, notably the difference between Ashkenazi Jews and Russian jews.
More starkly, ethiopian jews get treated little better than israeli arabs, who also have their own political party within the knesset.
In a way Israel is actually a microcosm of a larger clash between the western perspective and the perspective of the muslim world. The west keeps trying to fight Islamism with nationalism, and likewise islamists keep trying to fight nationalism with islamism. There can’t be a discussion because the two “sides” of the “debate” aren’t even agreeing on what’s being talked about.
What gets even weirder is how this has caused weird flips in political alignment. Because of MBS’ influence, the more influential secular movements in the Arab world tend to be Dictatorial or even outright Monarchist, while in the west Monarchy and Authoritarian movements are currently heavily associated with christian fundamentalism. Meanwhile the more “democratic” movements are heavily rooted in Islamist politics. Erdogan’s Turkey loves that scene, and has started getting involved in proxy wars to prop up other Turkey style republics headed by islamist parties.
BTW this is why the Muslim Brotherhood was able to win elections in Egypt following the arab spring before the new dictatorship took root. The Muslim Brotherhood seems to be a kind of almost Reaganist/Nixonian party that touts itself as the democratic alternative for frustrated “common sense conservative” folks in the middle east, silent majority rhetoric and all.
Yeah, I agree it’s not entirely a theocracy. It’s actually more driven by supremacy with Zionism (which is a political religious ideology just like Islamism or Hindu Extremism, etc).
Removed by mod
This is no religion, this is a “all Jews a bad and should be euthanized” book. This is far beyond any religion and just degenerated nonsense. I get that you can misinterpret any religion but here you don’t need any interpretation, this book is just evil.
None of them are, god isn’t real. There is no one they are fighting for, just their own ideals they made up to control people. You can’t argue that if Israel could wipe Hamas from the world they wouldn’t do so immediately, no different than the other way. Stop pretending one group of fake deity worshipers is better than another because they killed someone yesterday instead of the week before.
Again the Hamas is not based on a misinterpretation of a religion, they are based on a book that simply want the Jews wiped out. I’m sorry but based on that they are just savages that just want to se the Jews dead because of some conspiracy bullshit.
I would agree on that neither the Israelis or the Palestinians are saints in this conflict and need to get their shit together but the Hamas are just scum with no respect for human life either Israelis nor Palestinians, they basically share the same values as the Nazis regarding the Jewish population and want to wipe them out at the cost of the life of their own people .
In fairness, it’s a lot easier to convince people that whenever you know that group is actually stealing their land.
Obviously anti-Semitism is wrong, but what we see in Israel is not due to their religion, but due to their authoritarian bend n their leadership. Right wing authoritarianism is wrong, regardless of where it is and who does it.
I think Israel is hiding behind anti-Semitism to commit atrocities.
While I’m sure some of them think that, I’d wager the vast majority just want to stop being oppressed by Zionists.
You do know there is a blockade of Gaza, right?
a fairytale full of antisemitism
So they are racist against themselves?
what?
He’s playing a semantic game because Palestinians fall under the description of ‘semite’ despite the fact that, in the basic vernacular, ‘antisemite’ means someone who hates Jews. They know this, you know this, I know this. But they want to play a little game.
Removed by mod
I hate these types of games. I’m an antisemantic.
He’s pretending that he doesn’t know that “antisemitic” is a word that has been used exclusively to mean anti-Jewish for … What 50 years? More?
Israel basically created the monster that is Hamas today because they funded the radical islamists to take away support for the more leftist PLO.
https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/
So?
What do you mean so, the Israeli apartheid state took power away from the people they could negotiate with and gave it to barbaric terrorists.
A rare circumstance where both sides are indeed bad
nothing, just wanted to point out that they did it not intentionally. That’s what can happen when you support a group in another country as a counterweight to their political ideology. It can aid your country or it can bite you in the ass.
Lay down with dogs wake up with fleas sorta thing
So innocent Israelis deserve to die for what their government did decades ago?
Not deserve, but they made their bed, now they’re lying in it. This is a tragic but inevitable turn of events.
So innocent Palestinians deserve to die for something an extremist faction of their society did? Repeatedly? Threatened with literal extinction?
out of mistake I would say.
Bunch of monkeys. I completely support it if Israel/the West just completely level the Gaza Strip/Palestine and make it part of Israel.
Yeah cause slaughtering innocent civilians would definitely solve this issue once and for all… Don’t get me wrong, I’m not choosing sides here and am also appaled by this but levelling residential areas hardly seems the best solution.
deleted by creator
Bunch of monkeys. I completely support it if Apartheid South Africa/the West just completely level the black South African population and make South Africa whites-only.
It’s really sad what both sides of the conflict can do. And somehow it’s the innocent civilians who are stuck in the middle.
deleted by creator
They are both fighting, but both just hurting their own population that keeps their country afloat…
Palestine, especially Gaza, is not afloat. It is having its head held underwater by brutal apartheid. This tragedy is the result of people with nothing, living packed in a tiny open air prison, violently lashing out because there is absolutely nothing that they can do to improve the terrible conditions they are forced live under
That’s usually what happens in war unfortunately.
I only know some basics of the whole situation, but I really don’t get this attack. Israel is a modern Westernized nation and enjoys STRONG support, financial and military, from many/most other Western developed nations. They have modern weapons of just about all types.
Israel is accused of some awful shit and stealing peoples homes. From what I can see they’re probably guilty of this.But I don’t understand how killing a bunch of civilians at a rave is going to overall help the cause. It seems to me like a. it’d give your better-armed adversary an excuse to smack you down once and for all, and b. a good way to make the rest of the world feel like they shouldn’t be stopped in doing so (and if anything, helped in their efforts).
So what is the goal? Is this just an expression of pent up anger? Because it seems a poor strategy to me.
Because the last time Gazans tried a peaceful protest, thousands of people got shot by the Zionist regime: https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2019/02/no-justification-israel-shoot-protesters-live-ammunition
Because Palestine cannot win a conventional war against Israel.
Because Palestine cannot let the status quo continue to oppress them, because the status quo is itself encroaching on Palestinian land and Palestinian rights.
Do you have a better solution? These attacks have caused a massive flight of people from Israel, have forced the Bank of Israel to take very aggressive action to avoid the collapse of the shekel, have mobilized the countries bordering Israel, and have indicated that Palestinian resistance is not hopeless.
I think it’s the whole targeting unarmed civilians for rape, torture, kidnapping, and murder that people are taking issue with.
These are religious nutcase terrorists. Plan to gain Western support is not in their plans.
They are also an oppressed people with no other options.
palestinians yes, Hamas not.
palestine proudly stands with Hamas
So this attack was not just in one place. From what I’ve gathered it seems to have been
- mass indiscriminate missile shelling to overwhelm the automated missile defense systems of the iron dome. I’m not aware of Hamas having the capability for any more precise missiles than this
- launching dozens of paragliders over the israeli wall that surrounds Gaza using giant fans and while the missiles are flying, all along the wall, and the attackers taking hostages wherever they landed. I’m not sure but I don’t think they actually had much control over where they landed.
These attacks took place in many locations and they did actually attack and briefly take over several military outposts and checkpoints. It seems one of the primary goals was to take as many hostages as possible, and they have hidden these hostages throughout Gaza, sending the message that if Israel retaliates with bombs (which they have), they could be killing their own citizens. Hamas has also had success in the past with much smaller scale hostage taking, trading in one instance a single Israeli POW for around 1000 Palestinian POWs.
So what is the goal? Is this just an expression of pent up anger? Because it seems a poor strategy to me.
This is also the case. Israel is a formidable enemy with all of the power in the conflict, and the backing of multiple other world powers. Hamas has no hope of “winning” the conflict on their own. This is clearly also driven by desperation and hopelessness
I just can’t fathom how it wouldn’t also have helped Hamas’ cause by forbidding any form of sexual violence.
It would have helped their cause if it had been possible to draw comparisons between them and Israel: both kill lots of civilians. But the reports of rape and other sexual violence just makes it impossible to feel anything but disgust.
I’d say the same about many current political “policies” in the United States.
“Fuck the environment! I actively hope we all die to global warming! Abortion is horrible, even when it’s used to save a mother’s life!! Slavery never existed!”
Just as loony, in the whole world’s eyes. But it caters to some savagely angry crowds out there.
deleted by creator
I think a broad look at Israel’s policies is long overdue in a few areas.
But this action virtually guarantees that won’t happen.Doing nothing wasn’t helping much either. Damned if you do… Yadda yadda
They are not trying to attract usual people from civilized countries.
They are trying to attract people of the same culture as them and they are succeeding. These actions and videos bring them feeling of dominance, satisfaction and violent pride (of genocidal kind, I dare say), and also of being feared.
Also they are denying Israelis the feeling of safety they had - despite all those missiles sometimes being shot, and all those buses sometimes blowing up, they haven’t been for many years generally afraid of meeting armed thugs face-to-face, being humiliated, beaten, raped, their bodies mutilated and proudly shown by the perpetrators as part of a mass murder. This is a tangible result. This will weaken Israel in some ways long term (and in some strengthen it, probably, but maybe they don’t think that).
Also they have shown that you can make this kind of a raid on Israel with a relatively small force and succeed. All the Arab world now knows this.
And that’s only Hamas. If, say, Hezbollah, a much stronger organization, seriously tries to hurt them, it will.
So what is the goal? Is this just an expression of pent up anger? Because it seems a poor strategy to me.
I am trying to think of the answer objectively. Here is what I can think of the possibility would be:
I think their main goal is to abduct as many Israeli as possible and bring them to Gaza. Why?
- So they can negotiate on prisoner exchange. You can already come across news of negotiate being held in Qatar as of now.
- To use those captured Israelis as human shields. The Israeli is very protective of their citizens and will go to great length to make sure that they’stay safe and alive. You can refer to many instances in the past where the Israeli government have conducted many rescues of Israeli hostages. This is why, in the long run, an alive Israeli is worth lots more than them being dead. To add to this, if Hamas use their own women or children as human shields, it won’t work as the Israeli won’t care and will blow them anyway. So having Israeli civilians with them will mitigate the act of Israeli bombing Gaza indisminately. They are already statement by Netanyahu that the war will be long because of hostage situation.
- To use them as safety collateral in other ways that I can’t think of. Hamas simply has no say. They have nothing of any value to nego with the Israeli gov whatsoever. So the only thing that can help them is by bringing the subject of hostages into the negotiation. That’s why they need as many hostage as possible. after some time they won’t get the chance once the Israeli military deployments are underway.
[EDIT: A statement has been circulating (on telegram for my case) that Hamas will kill each civilians one by one and made the video/audio public if the Israeli gov don’t stop bombing civilian homes. This is part of the ‘collateral’ that I mean.]
When they attack the military camps, it seems that would just kill as many military personnel as they can, even those unarmed. Those not killed are bonus prizes for them - as good as having civilian hostages - but having civilians is much easier.
So, specifically for the situation at the music festival: why did many civillians got killed if Hamas wanted them alive? I speculate it was due to crowd control gone wrong. There are security personnel with fire arms at the music festival, so there were some shooting going on between them. Or it could be that through the chaos they just decided to kill until they can manage the crowd. Or they were just evil and decide to exert revenge. There could be many other possibilities. Hamas have claimed that those civilian that were killed were actually military personnel, but that’s very unlikely.
Anyway, I could be totally wrong. This is what I can thing of to get some senses of what going on.
Maybe they’re just a bunch of animals who wanted to kidnap and kill at the same time.
You can say that but that won’t really help because it has emotional element in it. It would be best if we can analyze their actions objectively, and to see how it impacts geopolitical events.
This is not a premature attack. it has been planned for more than a year (based on the interrogation of those captured). [And I am still dumbfounded how the best intelligence agency in the world were not able to smell it]. The goals and objectives most likely have been set by the higher-level parties. So they most likely has certain guidelines on what to do on certain situation so that their overall goals can be achieved. To just kill indiscriminately like animals is very unlikely part of that.
It’s a good theory, but why were they shooting at civilian cars then?
I think your theory may make more sense than most (explains the abductions) but it still mostly seems nonsensical.
but why were they shooting at civilian cars then
Strategical when they were on the
offenceoffense, they want to capture easy and high value targets.So the best place is at civilian homes - the least resistance. But those that on the run, like civilian in cars, is no longer easy target. So for those that are on the run, the attackers will default to another main goal - which is to instill fears to other Israeli civilians who will be watching the news that they are no longer safe and the gov are not capable of protecting them - by killing the non-easy targets, to set an example/precedence of terror.
The actual reason, as said by Hamas’s own press releases, is that they do not consider settlers to be civilians. Israel is an occupation of their land, and all occupiers are legitimate targets.
It’s possible that there is no helping their cause and the people who realized that just wanted to punish their oppressors.
Incredibly disgusting to see.
The comments from all the leftists here explicitly supporting Hamas terrorism against a legitimate state? Or the ones in favor of antisemitism? Or the ones requesting for LITERAL Israel genocide? Because yeah that shit is disgusting
Israel is a fake nazi colonizer state
Israel must be dismantled and the people of Palestine freed
